Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 772 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4516Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #23131 of 28588 Old 06-13-2017, 06:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
Gamecock24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
HDMI4 measures sub channel only, at +10dB.

Got the sub done. Still have the dip. I took the +6dB boost off of 73hz also so nothing changed. I will have to mess around with rotating the sub. I noticed it is slightly better when looking at the FL + sub. The sub is to the right corner so is that consistent with a time alignment issue?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gamecock24 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #23132 of 28588 Old 06-13-2017, 08:22 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 21,429
Mentioned: 424 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11737 Post(s)
Liked: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamecock24 View Post
Got the sub done. Still have the dip. I took the +6dB boost off of 73hz also so nothing changed. I will have to mess around with rotating the sub. I noticed it is slightly better when looking at the FL + sub. The sub is to the right corner so is that consistent with a time alignment issue?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is that one sub? What kind? The response falls off a cliff at 30Hz, and really only has decent output 30-50Hz. Maybe you need more subs.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #23133 of 28588 Old 06-13-2017, 08:36 PM
Senior Member
 
FargateOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Yes.
You can see it in the excess group delay (can be misleading though) and the impulse response:
Hello,
here are the results for different distances delay into Rotel. I have choosen 390cm is it the right one or should I choose 405cm? To my untrained eye, the signal for 405cm setting seemed to begin before the reference channel. And BTW the distances help a little to smooth the FR response at the crossover region for C+sub.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6av9wzi7j2...otel.mdat?dl=0
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	distance tweek for the sub (GD).jpg
Views:	44
Size:	161.8 KB
ID:	2187369  

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall
FargateOne is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #23134 of 28588 Old 06-13-2017, 08:54 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 21,429
Mentioned: 424 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11737 Post(s)
Liked: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by FargateOne View Post
Hello,
here are the results for different distances delay into Rotel. I have choosen 390cm is it the right one or should I choose 405cm? To my untrained eye, the signal for 405cm setting seemed to begin before the reference channel. And BTW the distances help a little to smooth the FR response at the crossover region for C+sub.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6av9wzi7j2...otel.mdat?dl=0
Purple looks best for me. The two main speakers do not seem to be aligned--why is that?
AustinJerry is offline  
post #23135 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 12:49 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,827
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5705 Post(s)
Liked: 2729
Quote:
Originally Posted by superb123 View Post
yes I do respect your and Alan's choice too and yes it is true, there is no number 1(only) listening mode for stereo source.it is depends on personal choice,room setup/setting and environment.
Sure there is a "number 1(only) listening mode for stereo source": 2 speakers forming an equilateral triangle with the listening position. That's how stereo recordings are mixed and that's how they are intended to be listened to. Upmixers can create a more enveloping or spatially stable presentation. "All stereo" is just nonsense. You're free to prefer it though.
Alan P likes this.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #23136 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 12:59 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,827
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5705 Post(s)
Liked: 2729
Quote:
Originally Posted by FargateOne View Post
Hello,
here are the results for different distances delay into Rotel. I have choosen 390cm is it the right one or should I choose 405cm? To my untrained eye, the signal for 405cm setting seemed to begin before the reference channel. And BTW the distances help a little to smooth the FR response at the crossover region for C+sub.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6av9wzi7j2...otel.mdat?dl=0
Don't know what the labels mean. I'm guessing 1-3 are the fronts and 6, 7, 9, 10 is sub with different delay? If yes then 9 and 10 seem to be right. Choose whatever gives the best response. Why are 4, 5, 8 delayed?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #23137 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 01:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
Gamecock24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Is that one sub? What kind? The response falls off a cliff at 30Hz, and really only has decent output 30-50Hz. Maybe you need more subs.


It's a a SI HST 18" ported @~17hz in 10.6cf. I have actually been considering another sub or two. I will try rotating the box around and see what difference that makes. I hopefully it's a placement positioning issue. I would hate to think I've wasted my time and money to only get 30-50hz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by Gamecock24; 06-14-2017 at 03:16 AM.
Gamecock24 is offline  
post #23138 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 06:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 10
superb123 is offline  
post #23139 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 06:19 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,827
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5705 Post(s)
Liked: 2729
Well, some people don't care or know about good stereophonic reproduction. Others are simply confused by terminology and functionality of their AVR. Multichannel (upmixing) isn't "multi channel stereo mode". Quite the opposite...

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole

Last edited by markus767; 06-14-2017 at 07:10 AM.
markus767 is offline  
post #23140 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 07:11 AM
Senior Member
 
FargateOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Don't know what the labels mean. I'm guessing 1-3 are the fronts and 6, 7, 9, 10 is sub with different delay? If yes then 9 and 10 seem to be right. Choose whatever gives the best response. Why are 4, 5, 8 delayed?
I can not open my mdat file for the moment (I am at work) I will check tonight maybe the dropbox link is not the good one for the right file.
I will post the correct link tonight .

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall
FargateOne is offline  
post #23141 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 07:27 AM
Senior Member
 
FargateOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Purple looks best for me. The two main speakers do not seem to be aligned--why is that?
Austin, if you are refering to the graph with my post, it shows left front and left surround and 3 different delays for the sub. (sorry, I think the dropbox link for the mdat is not the good on) In fact, R and C fronts time alignement is quite good (not showned in the graph).

REW calculates that I have a 10,5cm timing delay for the left surround but my receiver allows to adjust distance by increments of 15cm. Should I try to add a 15cm delay for this channel?

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall
FargateOne is offline  
post #23142 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 10:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bscool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,416
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
On the rare occasion I do listen to 2CH music in surround, I use Dolby PLIIx Music...it's the only upmixer I can stomach. My old-ish AVR doesn't do Dolby Surround or Neural:X.

To the OP; if you are not aware, Multi-Channel Stereo (aka "Party Mode") essentially downmixes the 2CH source to mono and then sends that signal to all of the speakers, killing any chance at soundstage or imaging. It is really only good for one thing, parties.
So Multi Channel Stereo will not have a separate left and right channel info? I have a test disk that has a voice that talks from the right channel and another voice that talks from the left and they come from each channel as the should when I have Multi Channel Stereo on. There is also a track that has a voice from the right channel, center and left and they also are places as they should be. Also, another is a drum track that pans from left to right one beat I think 7 in total each moving slightly from left to right and they also are placed and track correctly.

So if it was mono how would I get different sounds coming from left and right channel at the same time? Just trying to understand because I am confused if that is the case(mono) it doesn't appear to be or I am not understanding something. It has to be mixing left and right info to the center but still keeping left and right info coming from each speaker respectively if I am getting proper voice and staging placement.

I only have an LRC so maybe this has something to do with it. I can upload the tracks if someone wants to try them. They are from an IASCA test disc.

Lately, I have been using Dolby Surround but sometimes I still switch to Multi-Channel. It seems like Multi-Channel raises the voices or center image higher than Dolby Surround. I think it is because Dolby has the separate center info from left and rights and my center is about a foot lower than my LR so that drags center imagine down vs Multi Channel.
superb123 likes this.

HTPC, Sony 40es, 120" Silver Ticket, 7702mkii, Sunfire Amp 225w, JBL 590, JBL 520

PSA XS30, Seaton Submersive, 2 Um-18 8cf sealed, Outlaw Ultra x 12, Kappa Pro 18LF, BFM Tuba 60 horn, B&C 18TBW100 6cf 41hz, 34hz, 28hz tune

iNuke 3000 & 6000 DSP's, Crowson Motion Actuator
bscool is offline  
post #23143 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 11:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bscool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,416
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Better use a timing reference and trace arithmetic to sum signals. That way you can test any sub/sat combination and not just the ones that have been measured.

Ok, I use the Impulse measurement to get everything time aligned(LRC and Subs) and then to do a final tweaking I use the Audyssey Sub distance tweak to get the best summation between the LRC and subs. Is there a better or different way to do it?

HTPC, Sony 40es, 120" Silver Ticket, 7702mkii, Sunfire Amp 225w, JBL 590, JBL 520

PSA XS30, Seaton Submersive, 2 Um-18 8cf sealed, Outlaw Ultra x 12, Kappa Pro 18LF, BFM Tuba 60 horn, B&C 18TBW100 6cf 41hz, 34hz, 28hz tune

iNuke 3000 & 6000 DSP's, Crowson Motion Actuator
bscool is offline  
post #23144 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 10,383
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2696 Post(s)
Liked: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
So Multi Channel Stereo will not have a separate left and right channel info?
From the manual of the arbitrarily selected VSX-55:
"Lastly, the 5/7-CH STEREO mode simply outputs a stereo signal through all of your speakers."
"5/7CH STEREO
Simulates the acoustic environment of a regular stereo while using all the speakers in the system to induce a
rich, all-around sound."
So it SEEMS that left is left, right is right, and center is generated.
Michael
superb123 likes this.
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #23145 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 11:47 AM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 21,429
Mentioned: 424 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11737 Post(s)
Liked: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
"All stereo" is just nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
So Multi Channel Stereo will not have a separate left and right channel info?
Regardless of what it actually does, Markus has it right.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #23146 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 11:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bscool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,416
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
From the manual of the arbitrarily selected VSX-55:
"Lastly, the 5/7-CH STEREO mode simply outputs a stereo signal through all of your speakers."
"5/7CH STEREO
Simulates the acoustic environment of a regular stereo while using all the speakers in the system to induce a
rich, all-around sound."
So it SEEMS that left is left, right is right, and center is generated.
Michael
Ok. I looked in my Marantz manual and it also said it is stereo(Multi Ch Stereo: This mode is for enjoying stereo sound from all speakers).

HTPC, Sony 40es, 120" Silver Ticket, 7702mkii, Sunfire Amp 225w, JBL 590, JBL 520

PSA XS30, Seaton Submersive, 2 Um-18 8cf sealed, Outlaw Ultra x 12, Kappa Pro 18LF, BFM Tuba 60 horn, B&C 18TBW100 6cf 41hz, 34hz, 28hz tune

iNuke 3000 & 6000 DSP's, Crowson Motion Actuator
bscool is offline  
post #23147 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 12:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bscool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,416
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Regardless of what it actually does, Markus has it right.

I thought part of the point of this forum is to learn and help people with things they have questions about? Someone asked how to measure LRC and you said can't be done and I told you how it could be done.

I asked if that is correct that Multi Channel Stereo is mixed to mono and your reply is more or less saying it doesn't matter and it is "nonesense".

HTPC, Sony 40es, 120" Silver Ticket, 7702mkii, Sunfire Amp 225w, JBL 590, JBL 520

PSA XS30, Seaton Submersive, 2 Um-18 8cf sealed, Outlaw Ultra x 12, Kappa Pro 18LF, BFM Tuba 60 horn, B&C 18TBW100 6cf 41hz, 34hz, 28hz tune

iNuke 3000 & 6000 DSP's, Crowson Motion Actuator
bscool is offline  
post #23148 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 12:13 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 12,220
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6710 Post(s)
Liked: 6266
Both of those links are talking about Multi-Channel recordings (e.g. SACD, DVD-A) not upmixing 2CH recordings. These are two very different things.

Is this what you meant all along, that you are now enjoying muti-channel music on SACD, DVD-A or BluRay? If so, I apologize for not picking up on that earlier.

I have a few multi-channel recordings myself (Pink Floyd, Roger Waters, Yes), and while I do enjoy most of them, some are definitely done better than others. DSotM is one of my favorites.
Alan P is offline  
post #23149 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 12:16 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 12,220
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6710 Post(s)
Liked: 6266
Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
So Multi Channel Stereo will not have a separate left and right channel info? I have a test disk that has a voice that talks from the right channel and another voice that talks from the left and they come from each channel as the should when I have Multi Channel Stereo on. There is also a track that has a voice from the right channel, center and left and they also are places as they should be. Also, another is a drum track that pans from left to right one beat I think 7 in total each moving slightly from left to right and they also are placed and track correctly.

So if it was mono how would I get different sounds coming from left and right channel at the same time? Just trying to understand because I am confused if that is the case(mono) it doesn't appear to be or I am not understanding something. It has to be mixing left and right info to the center but still keeping left and right info coming from each speaker respectively if I am getting proper voice and staging placement.

I only have an LRC so maybe this has something to do with it. I can upload the tracks if someone wants to try them. They are from an IASCA test disc.

Lately, I have been using Dolby Surround but sometimes I still switch to Multi-Channel. It seems like Multi-Channel raises the voices or center image higher than Dolby Surround. I think it is because Dolby has the separate center info from left and rights and my center is about a foot lower than my LR so that drags center imagine down vs Multi Channel.
Different AVRs have different ways of implementing "Party Mode". I admit I probably over-simplified the explanation in my OP, but for the sake of my argument (that Party Mode sucks for soundstage, depth, imaging, etc.) the differences matter not.

I completely agree with Marcus; there is really only one way to listen to stereo music and that is in stereo.
Alan P is offline  
post #23150 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 01:19 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,827
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5705 Post(s)
Liked: 2729
"All stereo" or "party mode" is just something manufacturers came up with in the early days of multichannel to make sound come out of all speakers so people wouldn't feel ripped off when they had bought 5 or more speakers but there's sound coming from only 2 of them. Some manufacturers route a mono signal to all speakers, some mix L to all left speakers and R to all right speakers (and L+R to C). I bet there are even more variations. They all have in common that they aren't based on a deeper understanding of stereo but represent rather dumb upmix schemes.

Back to REW?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #23151 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 02:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
unretarded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ventura Ca
Posts: 4,079
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked: 2083
While I can not stand 2 channel music upmixed to surround, my reciever has "extended stereo"...yet another labeling variant....


Some music sounds good like that, IF, you turn the center channel all the way down.


I would be curious to measure that configuration with REW and see exactly what it is doing as it has to degrade the sound field.

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
unretarded is offline  
post #23152 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 03:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
Gamecock24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 160
I turned off the LPF on the iNuke. And changed LPF on the AVR from 120 to 200. I also messed around with the PEQ some in the iNuke. I think this is looking better.

When I sent up my iNuke I was in a car Audio mentality and set the LPF for the sub forgetting the AVR will handle that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gamecock24 is offline  
post #23153 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 04:04 PM
Senior Member
 
FargateOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Don't know what the labels mean. I'm guessing 1-3 are the fronts and 6, 7, 9, 10 is sub with different delay? If yes then 9 and 10 seem to be right. Choose whatever gives the best response. Why are 4, 5, 8 delayed?
Hi Markus and Austin,
here's the right link with data labelled in english!:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0yckv51ewq...otel.mdat?dl=0
Thank for your help

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall

Last edited by FargateOne; 06-14-2017 at 05:13 PM.
FargateOne is offline  
post #23154 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 04:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,297
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2869 Post(s)
Liked: 1069
I have tried Dolby PLII Music with 2ch music like Pandora or Spotify. However, I still prefer listening to it as 2ch (with bass management and sub PEQ).

I have tried 5ch Stereo but didn't like it because the vocals of my fronts and side surrounds didn't match and it was distracting. My fronts are SVS prime and surrounds are Sony SS-CS5. So, not a sonic match with vocals/dialogue.

Anyhow, I don't think I would like 5ch Stereo anyways since I have tried it with 5 matching HTiB speakers before.

Dolby PLII Music isn't bad, though.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #23155 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 04:06 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 21,429
Mentioned: 424 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11737 Post(s)
Liked: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
I thought part of the point of this forum is to learn and help people with things they have questions about? Someone asked how to measure LRC and you said can't be done and I told you how it could be done.

I asked if that is correct that Multi Channel Stereo is mixed to mono and your reply is more or less saying it doesn't matter and it is "nonesense".
You can use that mode for measuring LCR if you want. The discussion has since digressed to the point where some are recommending that multi-channel stereo is a viable listening mode. Several of us have responded that, while everyone is free to do what they want, using multi-channel stereo for any serious listening is not what we would recommend.

I have now admitted that I was wrong, so can you take this as a victory and move on?
AustinJerry is offline  
post #23156 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 04:09 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,297
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2869 Post(s)
Liked: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
What measurements do I need to start analyzing my front soundstage depth? Then what do I do to deepen the depth?
Subs with deeper extension (infrasonic maybe) and speaker choice and placement come to mind. Not sure about measures though.

I think giving the front speakers some room from the back and side walls could help as well as not placing them too close together and not using too much toe in.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #23157 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 04:11 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 21,429
Mentioned: 424 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11737 Post(s)
Liked: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamecock24 View Post
I turned off the LPF on the iNuke. And changed LPF on the AVR from 120 to 200. I also messed around with the PEQ some in the iNuke. I think this is looking better. When I sent up my iNuke I was in a car Audio mentality and set the LPF for the sub forgetting the AVR will handle that.
The LPF on the AVR is used only for the LFE channel. It does not come into play for re-directed bass. Since a fair amount of the bass you will hear is re-directed, a true assessment of the sub response would be to output the REW sweep using HDMI3 (center channel), turn off the center channel speaker, and observe the sub channel frequency response. Or you can output to HDMI2 and unplug the right speaker, same difference. Or don't unplug the main speaker and measure sub+center or Sub+left or right.
Gamecock24 likes this.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #23158 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 04:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
Gamecock24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The LPF on the AVR is used only for the LFE channel. It does not come into play for re-directed bass. Since a fair amount of the bass you will hear is re-directed, a true assessment of the sub response would be to output the REW sweep using HDMI3 (center channel), turn off the center channel speaker, and observe the sub channel frequency response. Or you can output to HDMI2 and unplug the right speaker, same difference. Or don't unplug the main speaker and measure sub+center or Sub+left or right.


So should I turn on a LPF and if so what freq? Looks like now the sub rolls off about 220hz maybe a little above that. Also I think I have annoyed the wife enough with sweeps for the evening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by Gamecock24; 06-14-2017 at 04:35 PM.
Gamecock24 is offline  
post #23159 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 04:39 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 21,429
Mentioned: 424 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11737 Post(s)
Liked: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamecock24 View Post
So should I turn on a LPF and if so what freq? Looks like now the sub rolls off about 220hz maybe a little above that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The AVR LPF is typically set to 120Hz, and filters out any frequencies above 120Hz in the LFE channel only. By design, the LFE channel doesn't have frequencies above 120Hz, so the LPF filters out any noise that might find its way into a recording. Do not set an LPF on the sub itself, if that is what you are asking.

If you measure sub+Mains, then the measurement will reflect the interaction of the sub and mains at the crossover frequency, typically ~80Hz. In a perfect world, the mains pick up the reproduction of the low frequencies when the sub starts to roll off, resulting in a smooth response in the crossover region.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #23160 of 28588 Old 06-14-2017, 08:26 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 10,383
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2696 Post(s)
Liked: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamecock24 View Post
Don't smooth bass-only graphs.
This looks to me like the bass response is WORSE with the mains in the 70 - 100Hz crossover region (even accounting for the 10dB difference measuring sub only with output 4).
Try changing the polarity of the sub and/or the crossover point and/or the sub distance.
Yes, experimentation is the order of the day.
Michael
Gamecock24 likes this.
LastButNotLeast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off