Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 827 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24781 of 27723 Old 05-18-2018, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by veger69 View Post

I have a MacBook Pro laptop running bootcamp win7
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Running any audio software on a virtualized system calls for trouble. Run REW directly in macOS.
Not being a Mac user, I failed to recognize that you were running a virtualized Windows machine for REW. I agree completely with Markus. There have been many REW users in this thread who run REW on the native Mac OS. There are a couple of links in the beginning of the guide that point to tips on running REW on a Mac, several of which were written by Markus, so I recommend you follow his advice.
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post #24782 of 27723 Old 05-18-2018, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Running any audio software on a virtualized system calls for trouble. Run REW directly in macOS.
Boot Camp is not a 'virtualized' OS running from within macOS or OS X. It boots and runs natively on the hardware.

Learn how to install and use Windows on your Mac with Boot Camp.

How to install Windows on your Mac with Boot Camp.

Boot Camp supported Macs and compatible Windows versions.
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post #24783 of 27723 Old 05-18-2018, 06:32 AM
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Boot Camp is not a 'virtualized' OS running from within macOS or OS X. It boots and runs natively on the hardware.
While that's true, running REW under macOS is the better choice. You seem to be familiar with Bootcamp so you know what that means if someone is trying to run Win 7 in Bootcamp...

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post #24784 of 27723 Old 05-18-2018, 06:35 AM
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Boot Camp is not a 'virtualized' OS running from within macOS or OS X. It boots and runs natively on the hardware.

Learn how to install and use Windows on your Mac with Boot Camp.

How to install Windows on your Mac with Boot Camp.

Boot Camp supported Macs and compatible Windows versions.
But since REW is supported on the native Mac OS, would you not agree with our advice to the OP to try that method of running REW? And assuming that you run REW on a Mac, do you use Bootcamp?
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post #24785 of 27723 Old 05-18-2018, 06:42 AM
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But since REW is supported on the native Mac OS, would you not agree with our advice to the OP to try that method of running REW? And assuming that you run REW on a Mac, do you use Bootcamp?
Win 7 is an old OS and there's lots of (driver) issues when running it using Bootcamp. Not sure why anyone would prefer that nightmare over running REW "natively" under macOS. By the way, I do have an old Mac mini running Win 7...
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post #24786 of 27723 Old 05-18-2018, 06:47 AM
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Ok I’m trying to generate filters for a MiniDSP 2x4 hd and got some great help from Austin and was finally were ready to generate some filters but the new beta notice kept popping up so I decided to update. I reloaded the asio4all drivers I was before I had been using the generate many sweeps before, no sound. Could someone give me a direction to go in to look for the problem. I have a MacBook Pro laptop running bootcamp win7
Startup in OS X/macOS and check your hardware/cabling setup using the Audio MIDI Setup app to make sure that there are no issues with your cables, adapter, or AVR. Then, startup in Windows and uninstall the REW beta and the ASIO4All driver. Download and install the latest REW beta installer. If you don't have Java installed under Windows, use the installer with the included JRE. Reinstall the ASIO4All driver. Make sure that you have the ASIO4All driver selected in the REW prefs and when doing sweeps.
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post #24787 of 27723 Old 05-18-2018, 08:00 AM
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While that's true, running REW under macOS is the better choice. You seem to be familiar with Bootcamp so you know what that means if someone is trying to run Win 7 in Bootcamp...
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
But since REW is supported on the native Mac OS, would you not agree with our advice to the OP to try that method of running REW? And assuming that you run REW on a Mac, do you use Bootcamp?

I have older Macs that have Boot Camp running Windows 7 with no issues. Running under OS X/macOS would be the better choice though for Mac users. However, some Mac laptops have issues with connecting to AVRs/HDTVs with HDMI connections because the screen resolution is not 1080 native. I have found the Minis to be the best Mac choice for connecting to AVRs/HDTVs using the native HDMI output.

I also have several Lenovo Core i5 and i7 laptops running Win 7 for use with REW and HCFR. The older i7 has issues with resolution support since it doesn't have a HDMI external monitor connector and does not have native 1080 screen resolution. The newer i5 has an HDMI connector with a native 1080 screen resolution so that seems to work best when connecting to an AVR/HDTV combo.

My biggest issue with Macs is the poor state of Intel sound hardware. The Macs all seem to have rolloff below 20Hz with increasing distortion as the frequency drops—probably something to do with filtering of low frequencies—on the analog hardware. Lenovo seems to favor RealTek hardware and that is even worse from a distortion and frequency response standpoint. I'm evaluating USB external sound devices now since I need one that has flat response with low distortion for testing drivers and crossovers.

From the standpoint of least frustration, REW users should probably make a choice to use one hardware/OS platform or the other since the support for REW is good on both sides (Thank you to @JohnPM!).

However, there will always be those who will try to force a UNC nut onto a BSW bolt...
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post #24788 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 11:23 AM
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My biggest issue with Macs is the poor state of Intel sound hardware.
Why not use the Mac's digital output?

I've used both but more often use the analog outputs because my system doesn't go much below 30Hz anyway.
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post #24789 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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Ok I was in bootcamp because my Avm60 only uses pc for ARC so I just wanted to keep it all on one platform. I booted up the Mac which had a older v5.19 beta 8 and every thing worked fine. I’m trying to follow Austin’s guide to REW which is on the current beta or just before the current. So I down loaded the current beta and installed it in another directory. Every thing looked good but when I went to make my fist measurement the sweep sounded right but the measured sound was this
I know the mic is working though because I did a generator and got the expected response



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post #24790 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 12:13 PM
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Ok I figured out what was wrong. Apparently selecting an acoustic timing reference screws up my reading? Because I selected no timing reference and my reading are recording as expected. This was the setting in Austin’s guide I was trying to measure with.



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post #24791 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 12:49 PM
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You are NOT following directions for the acoustic timing reference. The timing reference CANNOT be a subwoofer. And if the timing reference were configured on a regular speaker, the presence of a timing reference WILL NOT affect the validity of the measurement. And whether you are running REW 5.91 beta 8 or beta 9 has NO IMPACT on the issues you are facing.
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post #24792 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by veger69 View Post
Ok I was in bootcamp because my Avm60 only uses pc for ARC so I just wanted to keep it all on one platform. I booted up the Mac which had a older v5.19 beta 8 and every thing worked fine. I’m trying to follow Austin’s guide to REW which is on the current beta or just before the current. So I down loaded the current beta and installed it in another directory. Every thing looked good but when I went to make my fist measurement the sweep sounded right but the measured sound was this[...]


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Looks like you've selected the wrong input in "Audio MIDI Setup".

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post #24793 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Looks like you've selected the wrong input in "Audio MIDI Setup".


Yes it seems to a bug with the new beta. I selected the correct channel SL per the guide but when i made the measurement it showed LFE as the timing reference. I checked the channel mapping and it was correct. When I selected SR as the acoustic timing reference channel and made a measurement it showed SL as the timing reference so at least I’ve got it working.

I started this thread because I was having problems with REW but I’ve at least got it working correctly by selecting one channel past the one I want for timing reference. So I’m going to continue my MiniDSP questions in my other thread
Thank you for the help

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post #24794 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 04:34 PM
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Hey guys, just wanted to share what I found to place a Umik 1 at ear level on a chair or couch without buying a tripod and adapter. Amazon has these goosenecks that are 13" long and are already the 3/8 threads that you need. Only 10 bucks to boot, here's the link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And a pic:
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post #24795 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 05:15 PM
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Hey guys, just wanted to share what I found to place a Umik 1 at ear level on a chair or couch without buying a tripod and adapter. Amazon has these goosenecks that are 13" long and are already the 3/8 threads that you need. Only 10 bucks to boot, here's the link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And a pic:
Unless you are an extremely short person, the mic in the picture is nowhere near ear height, and the reflective cushion back will distort the measurements. Why would you make this compromise when an inexpensive boom mic stand can be had for $20-$30? If you are serious about getting good REW measurements, you need a boom mic stand.
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post #24796 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 05:37 PM
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Unless you are an extremely short person, the mic in the picture is nowhere near ear height, and the reflective cushion back will distort the measurements. Why would you make this compromise when an inexpensive boom mic stand can be had for $20-$30? If you are serious about getting good REW measurements, you need a boom mic stand.
The picture looks like it's pretty low but it's really not, the gooseneck is 13" plus the tripod and mic arm, it puts it really close to ear level.

And I've heard that the cushion back will distort measurements but I've measured in free space away from the couch and it really makes a minimal difference, we're talking fractions of a decimal which isn't audible. Having said that I realize it's a compromise but it's much better than the stock configuration.
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post #24797 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 06:19 PM
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The picture looks like it's pretty low but it's really not, the gooseneck is 13" plus the tripod and mic arm, it puts it really close to ear level.

And I've heard that the cushion back will distort measurements but I've measured in free space away from the couch and it really makes a minimal difference, we're talking fractions of a decimal which isn't audible. Having said that I realize it's a compromise but it's much better than the stock configuration.
Why compromise? There is really no sense in investing the time to learn how to use REW to improve your setup if it is based on a compromise.
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post #24798 of 27723 Old 05-19-2018, 07:20 PM
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Why compromise? There is really no sense in investing the time to learn how to use REW to improve your setup if it is based on a compromise.
I shouldn't have said compromise because it's really not, it's just a simpler, easier way of getting your Umik to ear level if you don't already have a Tripod with the adapter, just meant to help someone out who wants to measure on the cheap. If someone would rather buy a tripod and adapter more power to them, it's a 1st world problem after all.
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post #24799 of 27723 Old 05-20-2018, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by veger69 View Post
Yes it seems to a bug with the new beta. I selected the correct channel SL per the guide but when i made the measurement it showed LFE as the timing reference. I checked the channel mapping and it was correct. When I selected SR as the acoustic timing reference channel and made a measurement it showed SL as the timing reference so at least I’ve got it working.
Seems the acoustic timing ref is one channel out if using Java drivers with a multi-channel output and the ref output isn't left or right. I've fixed it for the next beta.
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post #24800 of 27723 Old 05-20-2018, 05:36 PM
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Seems the acoustic timing ref is one channel out if using Java drivers with a multi-channel output and the ref output isn't left or right. I've fixed it for the next beta.


Thanks John, I am a noob just not that much of a noob lol


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post #24801 of 27723 Old 05-21-2018, 11:03 AM
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I’m trying to adjust the sub + mains xover interaction by adjusting the sub delay. I have Dolby Surround instead of PLII. Does this make me unable to use the center as reference for adjustments? Here is and overlay of combined sub, center w/x and w/none


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post #24802 of 27723 Old 05-21-2018, 11:26 AM
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@veger69

Did you read the guide for graph posting? You need to make sure its 5db increments and not 10db. Also sub + center measurement should show 15-300hz without smoothing.

I don't see how dolby surround has to do with this. You clearly showed you measured the center already in your graph....same measurement just turn on the subs set center to small and use your xover of preference and rerun the measurement to get center+subs.

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post #24803 of 27723 Old 05-21-2018, 12:02 PM
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I’m trying to adjust the sub + mains xover interaction by adjusting the sub delay. I have Dolby Surround instead of PLII. Does this make me unable to use the center as reference for adjustments?

In addition to the suggestions for graph presentation made by @ereed , with which I agree, you can do the sub distance tweak using either left+subs or right+subs, rather than center+subs using Dolby Surround. The results will be close to the same using either the left or right speaker since you can’t output a pure center measurement using HDMI3.
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post #24804 of 27723 Old 05-21-2018, 01:10 PM
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In addition to the suggestions for graph presentation made by @ereed , with which I agree, you can do the sub distance tweak using either left+subs or right+subs, rather than center+subs using Dolby Surround. The results will be close to the same using either the left or right speaker since you can’t output a pure center measurement using HDMI3.
Thanks Jerry I updated my photo. I run my mains as full so I would need to set a xover for them to use Left + subs correct?
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post #24805 of 27723 Old 05-21-2018, 01:18 PM
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Jerry
About the SBIR @120 hrz I can’t find where to enter the distance the subs are from the wall?


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post #24806 of 27723 Old 05-21-2018, 02:25 PM
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Thanks Jerry I updated my photo. I run my mains as full so I would need to set a xover for them to use Left + subs correct?
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. If you have subs, but have your mains set to “Large” (i.e. “Full”), then the only signal your subs are receiving is the LFE signal. Correct me if I am wrong, but the whole point of running a subs+mains measurement sweep is to fine-tune the splice between the mains and subs. If you run the mains as full-range, then there is no splice between the subs and the mains because the subs are not being used. Can you explain to us why you are running the mains as full-range?

Most people who have subs in the setup want to actually use the subs. To use the subs, you must set the mains to “Small” and then set a crossover to a typical value like 80Hz.
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post #24807 of 27723 Old 05-22-2018, 09:56 AM
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I have Revel F52 their full range so I just set them that way. The subwoofer is set at an 80hrz crossover. I guess I thought the subwoofer still handled some bass not just LFE.
I want to listen to 2 channel music with the subwoofer so I’ll make another profile with them set to small.
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post #24808 of 27723 Old 05-22-2018, 01:30 PM
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I have Revel F52 their full range so I just set them that way. The subwoofer is set at an 80hrz crossover. I guess I thought the subwoofer still handled some bass not just LFE.
I want to listen to 2 channel music with the subwoofer so I’ll make another profile with them set to small.
Regardless of how robust you mains are, the sub will handle the frequencies below 80Hz better than the mains. And let’s get the terminology straight—crossovers are set on the mains, not on the subs. The 80Hz setting on the sub is the Low-Pass filter for the LFE channel, and simply prevents your sub from reproducing frequencies higher than the LPF. Typically, the default setting for the LPF is 120Hz, which is the highest frequency encoded on LFE tracks. Unless you have a proven reason to lower the LPF to 80Hz, you should raise it to 120Hz.

So, with your mains set to “Large”, the only low frequencies being sent to the sub are from the LFE track on movies. When you play music, which has no LFE track, your subs are idle. Is this what you really want? I have very capable mains, with three low frequency drivers per tower, which are flat down to ~30Hz. Yet, I use a 100Hz crossover, preferring to let my four subs handle the lower frequencies. IOW, just because your mains can dig deep, you are better off letting the subs do the work.
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post #24809 of 27723 Old 05-22-2018, 01:52 PM
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Thanks for the advice Jerry I’ll set it up


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post #24810 of 27723 Old 05-22-2018, 02:34 PM
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Regardless of how robust you mains are, the sub will handle the frequencies below 80Hz better than the mains. And let’s get the terminology straight—crossovers are set on the mains, not on the subs. The 80Hz setting on the sub is the High-Pass filter
Don't you mean LPF @AustinJerry ?
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