Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 832 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24931 of 27583 Old 06-22-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by klimo View Post
Alrighty. Ran my very first REW graphs last night. Thought I would post and look for comments. First is my sub. pre and post audyssey. 5 - 100hz no smoothing.

next is L + R and C. 15 - 20khz. 1/6 smoothing. blue is L + R Purple is C. 80hz xo.

no idea what im doing. lol.
Please read the REW guide and follow the steps. While you successfully made a measurement, the way you displayed it is incorrect. Follow the guide in Jerry Austin's signature.

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post #24932 of 27583 Old 06-22-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Please read the REW guide and follow the steps. While you successfully made a measurement, the way you displayed it is incorrect. Follow the guide in Jerry Austin's signature.
hmm. my sub measurement doesnt go to 300hz. but the L + R and C looks like it is presented right.

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post #24933 of 27583 Old 06-22-2018, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I think trying to answer the question “how hot are you running your subs” is foolish and uninteresting. FWIW, I run room calibration, and then use the AVR speaker level-setting test tones and the REW SPL meter to make sure the calibration set all my speaker levels to 75dB +/- .5dB. Once that has completed, I typically add 3dB to the sub channel level by raising the output control on my 88A. The fact that I use a house curve is taken into consideration when I measure levels using REW.

If someone asks me how hot I am running my subs, I answer “who cares?”, as long as the bass sounds like I want it to sound. Sounds like Alan and I use similar approaches.

Why do you add 3dB to subs after. With a target curve like the one you gave me the bass is already raised via the curve by 6.5dB. What does adding another 3dB in the subs do?

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post #24934 of 27583 Old 06-22-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
Why do you add 3dB to subs after. With a target curve like the one you gave me the bass is already raised via the curve by 6.5dB. What does adding another 3dB in the subs do?
When I measure the output levels after applying the house curve, the sub channel is measuring close to 75dB. Keep in mind that I am using the AVR speaker level-setting test tones, which is pink noise. Not sure if this answers your question, but measure your own output levels using REW and see what you get. All I know is that my current settings are producing a level of bass that meets my preference.
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post #24935 of 27583 Old 06-22-2018, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
“How hot is the sub” means how much is the sub level boosted relative to the levels of the other speakers. Even if the sub level is the same (not boosted), it may or may not be able to deliver clean output at high levels. So while I am not disagreeing with you, a separate process must be used to determine maximum output levels that the sub’s can deliver, and then ensure that that level is not exceeded.
How hot is the sub is just the target curve in crude form when people couldn't set target curves directly so just turned up the sub trim instead. This means it is not a simple number, it is frequency dependent (markus's point I think). Nevertheless it is a perfectly reasonable shorthand form as not everyone cares about that level of detail and I think lots of people still do the turning it up thing anyway so it remains broadly accurate for them. For anyone in this thread, just measure the response and you will see what you have.
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post #24936 of 27583 Old 06-27-2018, 05:29 AM
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Hey guys,

I got a HDMI laptop finally that I can use with REW via HDMI rather than RCA connection.

Im going to set it up tonight but have a question!.

When i plug the HDMI cable from the laptop....do i connect it to my AVR or my Lumagen video processor?.....as my Lumagen does all the audio and video processing and all my devices *BD and Media Players* are connected to my Lumagen.

So would I connect my HDMI cable into a spare input into my Lumagen? As that handles everything pretty much.

Sorry for the n00b question!

Cheers,
Kevin
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post #24937 of 27583 Old 06-27-2018, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post
Hey guys,

I got a HDMI laptop finally that I can use with REW via HDMI rather than RCA connection.

Im going to set it up tonight but have a question!.

When i plug the HDMI cable from the laptop....do i connect it to my AVR or my Lumagen video processor?.....as my Lumagen does all the audio and video processing and all my devices *BD and Media Players* are connected to my Lumagen.

So would I connect my HDMI cable into a spare input into my Lumagen? As that handles everything pretty much.

Sorry for the n00b question!

Cheers,
Kevin
Not being familiar with the Lumagen, I am not sure what audio processing it does. Can you provide some details about what is is doing?

HST, if you are using room correction on the AVR, you would want the REW signal in the path before the AVR, which would allow you to measure both with and without room correction. Connect the laptop to an unused HDMI port on the AVR, switch the AVR to that input, and make sure the audio for that port is configured for HDMI Multi-channel in (since the REW signal will be 7.1). You laptop display will be mirrored on your video output device, although this is not required for REW use, and may not be desirable if your video output is a projector.
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post #24938 of 27583 Old 06-27-2018, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Not being familiar with the Lumagen, I am not sure what audio processing it does. Can you provide some details about what is is doing?

HST, if you are using room correction on the AVR, you would want the REW signal in the path before the AVR, which would allow you to measure both with and without room correction. Connect the laptop to an unused HDMI port on the AVR, switch the AVR to that input, and make sure the audio for that port is configured for HDMI Multi-channel in (since the REW signal will be 7.1). You laptop display will be mirrored on your video output device, although this is not required for REW use, and may not be desirable if your video output is a projector.
Hi Austin,

The Lumagen is just getting the signal from the AVR as it is being passedthrough untouched. The Lumagen doesnt do anything to the sound....it is only a video processor. I can still turn audyssey on and off using it.

Yes, that is another thing i wanted to ask you...when i do connect it all up...I would rather have the laptop screen on and only the sound being ouput into the AVR. As my output device is a projector.

Thanks!
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post #24939 of 27583 Old 06-27-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post
Hi Austin,

The Lumagen is just getting the signal from the AVR as it is being passedthrough untouched. The Lumagen doesnt do anything to the sound....it is only a video processor. I can still turn audyssey on and off using it.

Yes, that is another thing i wanted to ask you...when i do connect it all up...I would rather have the laptop screen on and only the sound being ouput into the AVR. As my output device is a projector.

Thanks!
Yes, no need to have the projector on.
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post #24940 of 27583 Old 06-27-2018, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Not being familiar with the Lumagen, I am not sure what audio processing it does. Can you provide some details about what is is doing?

HST, if you are using room correction on the AVR, you would want the REW signal in the path before the AVR, which would allow you to measure both with and without room correction. Connect the laptop to an unused HDMI port on the AVR, switch the AVR to that input, and make sure the audio for that port is configured for HDMI Multi-channel in (since the REW signal will be 7.1). You laptop display will be mirrored on your video output device, although this is not required for REW use, and may not be desirable if your video output is a projector.
Or Plasma/OLED. I leave mine off unless I need the AVR OSD, for example to run Audyssey after getting subs/speakers in place. Then off it goes.

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post #24941 of 27583 Old 06-27-2018, 10:03 PM
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It's been about 6 months since I pulled out my UMIK-1 and REW and gave my room a check. Enough has changed that I decided to go for it again tonight. Mainly rock and plays and various blankets and boppys/toys for my kids. So I decided to check my response as it is now and its actually not too far off from what is was back in January when I last ran Audyssey and took my measurements. I purposefully left all the kids' stuff where it normally is during calibration to see if I can't squeeze some extra SQ out of my system. Here are my results after it was done:

No Smoothing


1/12 Smoothing


Note: I did give the iPad based Audyssey calibration a shot but it still produced a less desirable FR as compared to the AVR based audyssey. This has been my experience since the Audyssey app rolled out and at almost every update since (didn't get to redo calibration after every single app update). Here they are compared tonight (green is App and Blue is AVR based):

No Smoothing


1/12 Smoothing


I also ran an REW sweep before I did anything so I'd have a baseline to compare against. The red line was my FR before re-doing Audyssey tonight. I'd say I improved!

No Smoothing


1/12 Smoothing


I've always had that dip at 50hz and even with my 2 FV15HPs in the best places I could find to put them, I can't seem to completely eliminate it. It's so narrow that I'm not sure it's really effecting SQ. I did try the subwoofer level trick but it didn't work. I'm open to any other suggestions you might have! Cheers!
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post #24942 of 27583 Old 06-28-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I've always had that dip at 50hz and even with my 2 FV15HPs in the best places I could find to put them, I can't seem to completely eliminate it. It's so narrow that I'm not sure it's really effecting SQ. I did try the subwoofer level trick but it didn't work. I'm open to any other suggestions you might have! Cheers!
If you have tried everything with your dual sub placement, delays, etc and still have 50hz dip....another solution would be to add 3rd sub!

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post #24943 of 27583 Old 06-28-2018, 08:03 AM
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If you have tried everything with your dual sub placement, delays, etc and still have 50hz dip....another solution would be to add 3rd sub!
Hmm so do I want to stay married or fix my 50hz dip? I think I will just live with it until i get around to making my dedicated home theater. In there, the 2 FV15Hps will be more than enough. Audyssey is actually doing a terrific job of room correction given the large and oddly shaped open concept first floor that I have my LV home theater in.

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post #24944 of 27583 Old 06-29-2018, 05:49 PM
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Austin Jerry,
Do you have a recommendation on adding boost to an EQ prescription?
I understand that a solid recommendation is to just EQ out the peaks, but I feel confident that I have run through all the possible sub/seating locations (and multiple subs)...and according to REW if I add some judicious gain I can smooth out the last bits of a nice house curve. I would only use it below the Schroeder freq, or maybe a little higher.
I am comfortable that I have plenty of excess power both in my sub plate amps and the mains amps.
Thanks Jerry, and to any others of this group, opinion is welcome and appreciated.
Good weekend to all!
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post #24945 of 27583 Old 06-29-2018, 06:03 PM
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As with EQ cuts, a little positive gain won’t hurt as long as you have the headroom.

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post #24946 of 27583 Old 06-29-2018, 06:52 PM
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Thanks very much Wayne.
I remember your articles on house curves from several years ago; they were excellent.
Do you recommend individual eq on each sub to smooth individually first, and then eq the combined response to create the curve?
Or, curve each sub to begin with and then combine?
Thank you sir.
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post #24947 of 27583 Old 06-29-2018, 08:20 PM
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Feeling a bit silly but I can't seem to get to the point of measuring. I've followed the guide up to the point of opening REW and setting initial preferences but my Denon 4300 does not appear as an output. This is after selecting ASIO as a driver and ASIO4ALL V2 as the device. I've re-seated the HDMI to AUX 1 multiple times and even gone to AUX 2. I have a handshake with both AUX 1 & 2 and have the laptop video displayed on my monitor. I've gone back through the earlier steps in the guide to make sure I set up the Denon properly on the laptop - the AVR is shown as default. The UMM-6 appears as an active input but still no HDMI output option in REW. Ugh. Help please.
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post #24948 of 27583 Old 06-29-2018, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiosaur View Post
Feeling a bit silly but I can't seem to get to the point of measuring. I've followed the guide up to the point of opening REW and setting initial preferences but my Denon 4300 does not appear as an output. This is after selecting ASIO as a driver and ASIO4ALL V2 as the device. I've re-seated the HDMI to AUX 1 multiple times and even gone to AUX 2. I have a handshake with both AUX 1 & 2 and have the laptop video displayed on my monitor. I've gone back through the earlier steps in the guide to make sure I set up the Denon properly on the laptop - the AVR is shown as default. The UMM-6 appears as an active input but still no HDMI output option in REW. Ugh. Help please.
The guide has a section on ASIO troubleshooting. Have you gone through those steps? And when you open the Windows Audio icon in the Systray and select the Output Device, is the Denon the primary output device? When you open the Output Device properties, does it show 7.1 audio as supported?
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post #24949 of 27583 Old 06-29-2018, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjk43 View Post
Thanks very much Wayne.
I remember your articles on house curves from several years ago; they were excellent.
Do you recommend individual eq on each sub to smooth individually first, and then eq the combined response to create the curve?
Or, curve each sub to begin with and then combine?
Thank you sir.
Typically it’s best to EQ multiple subs as a single entity, since all of them combined the way you hear them (pardon the poor grammar). That said, you might first measure each individually and if one has a nasty peak, bring that down. Then EQ them all together. Others here may have some better ideas.

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post #24950 of 27583 Old 06-29-2018, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The guide has a section on ASIO troubleshooting. Have you gone through those steps? And when you open the Windows Audio icon in the Systray and select the Output Device, is the Denon the primary output device? When you open the Output Device properties, does it show 7.1 audio as supported?
I did note the excellent troubleshooting steps beginning on p 41. Most steps appear to concentrate on missing input mikes, though, which isn't my issue. One point of departure from the guide is that, without HDMI plugged into the laptop, I have no HDMI icon in the systray sounds. When plugged in, the Denon appears automatically as default. Also, I selected 5.1 since that's what I'm running now.



One additional change from prior attempts...whereas before I had nothing connected in ASIO output choices, I now have 8 iterations of "Audio output with SST 1", numbered sequentially 1-8. Are those the proper choices?



When I click on the wrench in ASIO control panel, three selections now appear, all active: Realtek High Definition Audio(SST), Intel(R)Display Audio, and UMM-6. Again, no HDMI listed, despite the confirmed HDMI connection to the AVR.


Is this where I give up and go Java?
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post #24951 of 27583 Old 06-30-2018, 02:28 AM
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Intel Display Audio is likely to be your HDMI connection.
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post #24952 of 27583 Old 06-30-2018, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiosaur View Post
I did note the excellent troubleshooting steps beginning on p 41. Most steps appear to concentrate on missing input mikes, though, which isn't my issue. One point of departure from the guide is that, without HDMI plugged into the laptop, I have no HDMI icon in the systray sounds. When plugged in, the Denon appears automatically as default. Also, I selected 5.1 since that's what I'm running now.



One additional change from prior attempts...whereas before I had nothing connected in ASIO output choices, I now have 8 iterations of "Audio output with SST 1", numbered sequentially 1-8. Are those the proper choices?



When I click on the wrench in ASIO control panel, three selections now appear, all active: Realtek High Definition Audio(SST), Intel(R)Display Audio, and UMM-6. Again, no HDMI listed, despite the confirmed HDMI connection to the AVR.


Is this where I give up and go Java?
As John has mentioned, Intel Display Audio is what you will see if you have a laptop with an Intel chipset. Some of the screenshots in the guide were created when I had a laptop with an AMD (ATI) chipset, which is why the screenshots may not match your system for the output device. I have updated the guide to remove this minor confusion.

I suspect the "Audio output with SST 1-8" are the HDMI outputs on your laptop. Perhaps you could post a screenshot of the output options on your Preferences screen? Try it an let us know if it works. Don't give up on ASIO yet--Java is not as easy to use.

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post #24953 of 27583 Old 06-30-2018, 04:24 PM
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I've got the REW preferences set as described and continued to generating pink noise and measurement. I get nothing with both. No sound or visual indicators when generating PN, other than the options darken when I select play. When attempting to measure, I get, "The soundcard did not provide input data". I've gone back to systray and confirmed all steps - 48k for playback and record. In playback configuration, I get tones when I test each speaker but when I close the systray, reopen REW, and try measuring again...nothing.


This is really frustrating.
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post #24954 of 27583 Old 06-30-2018, 08:24 PM
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I've got the REW preferences set as described and continued to generating pink noise and measurement. I get nothing with both. No sound or visual indicators when generating PN, other than the options darken when I select play. When attempting to measure, I get, "The soundcard did not provide input data". I've gone back to systray and confirmed all steps - 48k for playback and record. In playback configuration, I get tones when I test each speaker but when I close the systray, reopen REW, and try measuring again...nothing.


This is really frustrating.
I can't tell from your screenshots what could be going wrong. In Windows Audio, select the Playback tab, highlight the primary playback device, and click Properties. Under the Advanced tab, there is a button called Test. Click the button--do you hear sound from your speakers? If not, you may have a hardware issue.
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post #24955 of 27583 Old 06-30-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I can't tell from your screenshots what could be going wrong. In Windows Audio, select the Playback tab, highlight the primary playback device, and click Properties. Under the Advanced tab, there is a button called Test. Click the button--do you hear sound from your speakers? If not, you may have a hardware issue.
I have tones from all speakers with that test. Closed Windows Audio, opened REW and again heard nothing.
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post #24956 of 27583 Old 07-01-2018, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiosaur View Post
I have tones from all speakers with that test. Closed Windows Audio, opened REW and again heard nothing.
Can you post a screenshot of the open ASIO control panel???

Regards, Mike.
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post #24957 of 27583 Old 07-01-2018, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiosaur View Post
I have tones from all speakers with that test. Closed Windows Audio, opened REW and again heard nothing.
If you continue having issues with ASIO, try Java in the meantime to hone your measurement skills. You can measure left, right, center and subs using Java. Measuring surround speakers has marginal value.

And provide the screenshots AV_Mike asked for so we can continue trouble-shooting. Believe me, you are not the first person to have problems with ASIO. And since it is 3rd-party software, support is nonexistent.
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post #24958 of 27583 Old 07-01-2018, 02:34 PM
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Preferences Tab with ASIO control panel overlay...
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post #24959 of 27583 Old 07-01-2018, 02:48 PM
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Preferences Tab with ASIO control panel overlay...
Thanks. When you hover the cursor over the Intel Display Audio selection, does it say "Active, Polling" or "Idle"?
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post #24960 of 27583 Old 07-03-2018, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiosaur View Post
I've got the REW preferences set as described and continued to generating pink noise and measurement. I get nothing with both. No sound or visual indicators when generating PN, other than the options darken when I select play. When attempting to measure, I get, "The soundcard did not provide input data". I've gone back to systray and confirmed all steps - 48k for playback and record. In playback configuration, I get tones when I test each speaker but when I close the systray, reopen REW, and try measuring again...nothing.


This is really frustrating.


I have a similar issue with outputting test tones, the difference is, when I go into settings, the mic is usually not the default recording device and I have to re-enable it, then it USUALLY (but not always) will work. This sort of behavior is prompting me to get an Apple when it’s time to replace this laptop.


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