Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 909 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3998Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #27241 of 27314 Old 05-15-2019, 02:56 PM
Senior Member
 
jsc79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked: 335
So I’m pretty new with REW and have been using it for a few weeks now.

I was checking the levels my room correction set with the generator and SPL Meter and got those dialed in.

I forgot to turn it down and ran a sweep with the level in REW at the default -12 but my avr was at 0db reference.

Is that considered dangerous to speakers at that level? I was running hdmi3. It scared me but nothing sounded out of place or like I blew anything. I typically run them around -18 to -20 on the avr.

With it at 0db on the avr that would be a 93db sweep with rew at -12db correct? I’m thinking I am more than good just want to make sure.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18
Speakers: L/R Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2 - Center - Ascend Acoustics Horizon w/RAAL - Surrounds: Sonance VP62R SST/SUR
Video: Sony XBR65X900e 65" 4K - Sony UBP-X800 Blu Ray
Power and Processing: Yamaha RXA1030 - Monolith 7X Amp - Minidsp 2X4 HD

Last edited by jsc79; 05-15-2019 at 03:19 PM.
jsc79 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #27242 of 27314 Old 05-15-2019, 03:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Corpus Christi, TX USA
Posts: 3,030
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Also, when setting up PEQ, should I go for flat or for slight harman curve?
You’ll probably want a curve, but you should determine for yourself the curve needed, not someone else’s idea of what a good curve is. Every room is different and no particular curve works everywhere.

https://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ed-how-do.html

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
sdurani and Alan P like this.


Equipment List
"A nice mid-fi system," according to an audiophile acquaintance.

Reviews and Tech Articles
Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #27243 of 27314 Old 05-15-2019, 04:08 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,193
Mentioned: 368 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10806 Post(s)
Liked: 6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
That side of the room has a 3' tall by 8' long window along it. Of course its the original window in a 40 yr old house. It leaks air and of course sound. In other words, its a big bass vacuum.
On a side note though, it was just the other day, the wife was talking about allowing some heavy curtains to help curtail the effect.
Well, it would be useful to see a measurement of the combined sub response along with the mains. Otherwise, we can’t tell whether the dip is being filled in by the other speakers. Can you provide a subs+center measurement?
ahblaza likes this.
AustinJerry is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #27244 of 27314 Old 05-15-2019, 07:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
artur9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: near philly
Posts: 2,297
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 972 Post(s)
Liked: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
I'm posting a couple sub graphs.
The difference in FR between the two subs is quite a lot. Can you also post a combined?

I once had one subwoofer that looked/sounded great all by itself in REW at the MLP. When I sat in another seat, boy did it sound terrible.
artur9 is offline  
post #27245 of 27314 Old 05-16-2019, 08:29 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,322
Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6813 Post(s)
Liked: 5759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
I'm posting a couple sub graphs. Each of front left and right subs, they are equilateral along front wall just inside of main right and left towers.
IF those are identical subs and placed symmetrically, then there is a surprising amount of difference between their responses at the main listening position. Are there any irregularities or asymmetries in the shape of your room: alcoves, open doorways, bump-outs, etc?

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #27246 of 27314 Old 05-16-2019, 10:12 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut.
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, it would be useful to see a measurement of the combined sub response along with the mains. Otherwise, we can’t tell whether the dip is being filled in by the other speakers. Can you provide a subs+center measurement?
Center+subs is attached. Granted that graph is before integrating the MiniDSP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
The difference in FR between the two subs is quite a lot. Can you also post a combined?
The graph of combined subs is after installing the MiniDSP and setting PEQ & time delay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
IF those are identical subs and placed symmetrically, then there is a surprising amount of difference between their responses at the main listening position. Are there any irregularities or asymmetries in the shape of your room: alcoves, open doorways, bump-outs, etc?
Yes, back end of room opens up into foyer area at the bottom of stairs which give access to a couple other bedrooms. I've discovered by measurement, it's beneficial to keep the doors closed. See isometric view. The front subs are just inside of mains and the rear subs are underneath the surrounds.

Unfortunately time constraints kept me from re-running Audyssey when I did all this the other day, so graphs should be interpreted as in process right now. I'm posting the impulse overlay on each sub which shows needed adjustment still on my rear left sub too.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	center+subs pre minidsp with n without audy.png
Views:	29
Size:	34.6 KB
ID:	2567530   Click image for larger version

Name:	all 4 subs post minidsp no audy.png
Views:	32
Size:	26.6 KB
ID:	2567532   Click image for larger version

Name:	Isometric view.PNG
Views:	29
Size:	198.7 KB
ID:	2567540   Click image for larger version

Name:	Individual subs timing.png
Views:	27
Size:	49.1 KB
ID:	2567550  

Sony 75X940E, Sony X700, Roku Ultra, Denon X6200 processing to 2 Parasound HCA-855’s & 1 HCA-750
Mission 705a L&R, dual 70c3 centers, 705 back, 703 surround & 4 Yamaha NSIC800 in ceiling
Subs- Front: M&K MX-200 & MX-150THX; Rear: M&K V-75 & Klipsch RW-12

Last edited by Kevnmin; 05-16-2019 at 10:36 AM.
Kevnmin is offline  
post #27247 of 27314 Old 05-16-2019, 02:34 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,193
Mentioned: 368 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10806 Post(s)
Liked: 6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Center+subs is attached. Granted that graph is before integrating the MiniDSP.



The graph of combined subs is after installing the MiniDSP and setting PEQ & time delay.



Yes, back end of room opens up into foyer area at the bottom of stairs which give access to a couple other bedrooms. I've discovered by measurement, it's beneficial to keep the doors closed. See isometric view. The front subs are just inside of mains and the rear subs are underneath the surrounds.

Unfortunately time constraints kept me from re-running Audyssey when I did all this the other day, so graphs should be interpreted as in process right now. I'm posting the impulse overlay on each sub which shows needed adjustment still on my rear left sub too.
I suspect what looks like a polarity issue with the left rear sub may also be something to do with the fact that the subs are different models. It can’t hurt to flip the polarity, remeasure, and see the effect on frequency response.

Audyssey seems to be doing a pretty good job on the subs+center, and measuring everything together shows that the speakers are blending reasonably well.
Kevnmin likes this.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #27248 of 27314 Old 05-16-2019, 02:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut.
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I suspect what looks like a polarity issue with the left rear sub may also be something to do with the fact that the subs are different models. It can’t hurt to flip the polarity, remeasure, and see the effect on frequency response.

Audyssey seems to be doing a pretty good job on the subs+center, and measuring everything together shows that the speakers are blending reasonably well.
I'll get a chance back in the room in the next couple days to make changes inverting polarity on the odd man out as you say. Come first of next week I'll post a new set.

Sony 75X940E, Sony X700, Roku Ultra, Denon X6200 processing to 2 Parasound HCA-855’s & 1 HCA-750
Mission 705a L&R, dual 70c3 centers, 705 back, 703 surround & 4 Yamaha NSIC800 in ceiling
Subs- Front: M&K MX-200 & MX-150THX; Rear: M&K V-75 & Klipsch RW-12
Kevnmin is offline  
post #27249 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 03:25 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi, i am not sure the questions being asked and had any solution for 5.1 eq with Rew.

I had installed Asio4all 2.14 and tried 2.13. It can't detect my graphic card nvidia 1060 for the sound. But Java could detect my graphic card.

I had try FlexAsio, but no matter how I install and uninstall, the configuration file is always missing. I had try to copy and paste to create the configuration file, it does not work.

Is there any other solution?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Guess21 is online now  
post #27250 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 05:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
artur9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: near philly
Posts: 2,297
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 972 Post(s)
Liked: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Center+subs is attached. Granted that graph is before integrating the MiniDSP.
That bass boost seems excessive but if you like it...

HST, you might like a more gentle upward slope from 100Hz to 20Hz. Say something like 10dB.

I'd think the way it is now male newscasters would sound very chesty.
Kevnmin likes this.
artur9 is offline  
post #27251 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 08:10 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut.
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess21 View Post
...
I had installed Asio4all 2.14 and tried 2.13. It can't detect my graphic card nvidia 1060 for the sound. But Java could detect my graphic card....

Is there any other solution?
Are you using Windows based laptop, if you're using Windows 10 you can try to disable the internal microphone, speakers and camera. I use a Window 10 laptop and had all kinds of trouble until I disabled those. After that, no problems at all with REW and ASIO4All working together.
giomania likes this.

Sony 75X940E, Sony X700, Roku Ultra, Denon X6200 processing to 2 Parasound HCA-855’s & 1 HCA-750
Mission 705a L&R, dual 70c3 centers, 705 back, 703 surround & 4 Yamaha NSIC800 in ceiling
Subs- Front: M&K MX-200 & MX-150THX; Rear: M&K V-75 & Klipsch RW-12
Kevnmin is offline  
post #27252 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 08:46 AM
Member
 
lawdogx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 36
First off THANK YOU guys for your help in redoing my subs! I've followed the advice on here and worked on positioning and room treatment first. The result is a massive improvement both on paper and by ear. I'm up to the PEQ stage of things and would appreciate some direction. I'm running four mini marty UM18-22 subs powered by two NX6000d amps. It's a tough room but I positioned the subs to get things as smooth as possible.

All twelve possible sub locations:


Best four positions together:


I'd like to fix that substantial peak at 53Hz. As you can see in the first graph above the peak is present at every potential sub location, so I'm left with EQ and have a few questions about it. First, do I apply EQ to each sub individually or is there some way to apply them to the pairs on the NX 6000? Second, REW gives me EQ but it comes out pretty aggressive. Is there some rule of thumb for Q? For example, if my peak is 10dB in height and 10 Hz in width, is there a Hz to Q formula? Thanks in advance!
lawdogx is online now  
post #27253 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 08:58 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Are you using Windows based laptop, if you're using Windows 10 you can try to disable the internal microphone, speakers and camera. I use a Window 10 laptop and had all kinds of trouble until I disabled those. After that, no problems at all with REW and ASIO4All working together.
Thanks. I am using diy desktop, hence there is no internal microphone, speaker and camera. I disable the internal sound card, now nothing is able to select.

My FlexASIO suddenly able to have 5 channels. Now i am able to use the Rew.
However when i transfer the file to equalizer APO, the file is not readable for the audio service. How could I enable the file?

Just another question. If in future, I am building to 5.1.4 atmos. How can I use Rew to Eq? Currently in my FlexAsio only 6 channels.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Guess21 is online now  
post #27254 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 09:30 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,322
Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6813 Post(s)
Liked: 5759
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
I'd like to fix that substantial peak at 53Hz.
A single band of PEQ should flatten out that peak.
Quote:
As you can see in the first graph above the peak is present at every potential sub location
Has to do with measurement location. Speed of sound divided by problem frequency should give you a room dimension: 1130 ÷ 53Hz = 21 ft. Was the measurement taken from the middle of a 21 ft dimension?
Quote:
First, do I apply EQ to each sub individually or is there some way to apply them to the pairs on the NX 6000?
You apply it to the signal going to all 4 subs (individual or in pairs).
Quote:
REW gives me EQ but it comes out pretty aggressive.
What do you mean by "comes out pretty aggressive"? Fixes the problem too well?
Quote:
Is there some rule of thumb for Q? For example, if my peak is 10dB in height and 10 Hz in width, is there a Hz to Q formula?
Q = centre frequency ÷ (f2 - f1).



https://www.rane.com/note170.html
ahblaza and lawdogx like this.

Sanjay

Last edited by sdurani; 05-17-2019 at 10:44 AM.
sdurani is online now  
post #27255 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 09:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ereed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,230
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2137 Post(s)
Liked: 1437
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
Best four positions together:


I'd like to fix that substantial peak at 53Hz. As you can see in the first graph above the peak is present at every potential sub location, so I'm left with EQ and have a few questions about it. First, do I apply EQ to each sub individually or is there some way to apply them to the pairs on the NX 6000? Second, REW gives me EQ but it comes out pretty aggressive. Is there some rule of thumb for Q? For example, if my peak is 10dB in height and 10 Hz in width, is there a Hz to Q formula? Thanks in advance!
You should be able to use peq at 53hz with -10 gain (cut) with Q of 5 to see how it is. That should bring it down 10db. Try that and run another sweep.
lawdogx likes this.

Sony 45es | 120 inch screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1075 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Rotel RSP-1068 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M (x4) | Funk Audio subs (x2) | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson D-501/Shadow-8 Actuators (x2) | Monster Power Conditioner | GIK acoustic panels
ereed is offline  
post #27256 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 10:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut.
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess21 View Post
... My FlexASIO suddenly able to have 5 channels. Now i am able to use the Rew.
However when i transfer the file to equalizer APO, the file is not readable for the audio service. How could I enable the file?

Just another question. If in future, I am building to 5.1.4 atmos. How can I use Rew to Eq? Currently in my FlexAsio only 6 channels.
Being unfamiliar with FlexASIO, I can't help with your question.
WRT the atmos ceiling channels. I've wondered the same, but realize the biggest benefit with using REW is sub implementation with the front stage and room behavior. I'm no seasoned user and still asking lots of questions myself.

Edit: Possibly the biggest advantage is understanding how little I really knew and how my eyes have been opened and upgraditis has taken hold.

Sony 75X940E, Sony X700, Roku Ultra, Denon X6200 processing to 2 Parasound HCA-855’s & 1 HCA-750
Mission 705a L&R, dual 70c3 centers, 705 back, 703 surround & 4 Yamaha NSIC800 in ceiling
Subs- Front: M&K MX-200 & MX-150THX; Rear: M&K V-75 & Klipsch RW-12

Last edited by Kevnmin; 05-17-2019 at 10:18 AM.
Kevnmin is offline  
post #27257 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 05:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Being unfamiliar with FlexASIO, I can't help with your question.

WRT the atmos ceiling channels. I've wondered the same, but realize the biggest benefit with using REW is sub implementation with the front stage and room behavior. I'm no seasoned user and still asking lots of questions myself.



Edit: Possibly the biggest advantage is understanding how little I really knew and how my eyes have been opened and upgraditis has taken hold.
Thanks. Hope someone able to guide on atmos portion using REW.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Guess21 is online now  
post #27258 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 06:27 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,193
Mentioned: 368 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10806 Post(s)
Liked: 6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess21 View Post
Thanks. Hope someone able to guide on atmos portion using REW.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
REW and ASIO handle a 7.1 configuration. If you want to measure ceiling speaker responses, then the only way to do this would be to temporarily swap the ceiling speaker cables for one of the 7.1 outputs, and swap the cables back when done. Pretty simple, but not without risk.
giomania and ahblaza like this.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #27259 of 27314 Old 05-17-2019, 07:46 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
REW and ASIO handle a 7.1 configuration. If you want to measure ceiling speaker responses, then the only way to do this would be to temporarily swap the ceiling speaker cables for one of the 7.1 outputs, and swap the cables back when done. Pretty simple, but not without risk.
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Guess21 is online now  
post #27260 of 27314 Old 05-18-2019, 05:01 AM
QuadMersed in bass!
 
giomania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,710
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
REW and ASIO handle a 7.1 configuration. If you want to measure ceiling speaker responses, then the only way to do this would be to temporarily swap the ceiling speaker cables for one of the 7.1 outputs, and swap the cables back when done. Pretty simple, but not without risk.
Obviously, you would not be able to measure with Audyssey on, as the correction would be for the other channel, so only with Audyssey off would work, but what is the risk?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last edited by giomania; 05-18-2019 at 05:05 AM.
giomania is offline  
post #27261 of 27314 Old 05-18-2019, 06:37 AM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,193
Mentioned: 368 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10806 Post(s)
Liked: 6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Obviously, you would not be able to measure with Audyssey on, as the correction would be for the other channel, so only with Audyssey off would work, but what is the risk?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
You are correct regarding room correction needing to be off. IMO, the value of measuring the ceiling speakers is low. Normally, we would assume that Audyssey is doing a good job at correcting their response.

The risk is that one must be careful when disconnecting and re-connecting speaker wires.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #27262 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 11:39 AM
Senior Member
 
jsc79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked: 335
I am looking at importing some REW corrections into my MiniDSP 2x4HD for my subs. My Yamaha 1030 AVR does not EQ the subs, the lowest PEQ is 62hz i think. I need a new AVR, but unfortunately its not in the budget right now.

The way I have it wired is one sub output on my AVR to the 2x4hd, and then 2 out of the 2x4HD to my subs which are both located in the front corners equidistant to the MLP.

Looking for the best way to do the EQ'ing of the subs.

Would I run the sweeps for each sub individually and import separate files on the output side of the 2x4HD for each sub? If I then wanted to do a house curve I would do that on the input side of the 2x4HD that would go equally out to both outputs or would I be better off just bumping up the levels in my AVR for the house curve? Currently I just bump up my level +3db at the line level and the sub trim +3-4db on my AVR.

I was also eventually looking at doing some BEQ on them as well. Im assuming it would be the same as above, but instead of the house curve on the input side I would import the BEQ file.

This is the combined response with no EQ/no boost applied to the subs. I have a big hole at 40hz, but Ive played around and it doesnt seem to go away. Im in a open floorplan and it proving to be pretty tough. Im also very limited in placement options and the wife pretty much told me they have to stay up front as this is what was agreed upon for me to get a second one. lol
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	REW.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	1.90 MB
ID:	2569194  

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18
Speakers: L/R Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2 - Center - Ascend Acoustics Horizon w/RAAL - Surrounds: Sonance VP62R SST/SUR
Video: Sony XBR65X900e 65" 4K - Sony UBP-X800 Blu Ray
Power and Processing: Yamaha RXA1030 - Monolith 7X Amp - Minidsp 2X4 HD
jsc79 is online now  
post #27263 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 11:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11,369
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6125 Post(s)
Liked: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc79 View Post
I am looking at importing some REW corrections into my MiniDSP 2x4HD for my subs. My Yamaha 1030 AVR does not EQ the subs, the lowest PEQ is 62hz i think. I need a new AVR, but unfortunately its not in the budget right now.

The way I have it wired is one sub output on my AVR to the 2x4hd, and then 2 out of the 2x4HD to my subs which are both located in the front corners equidistant to the MLP.

Looking for the best way to do the EQ'ing of the subs.

Would I run the sweeps for each sub individually and import separate files on the output side of the 2x4HD for each sub? If I then wanted to do a house curve I would do that on the input side of the 2x4HD that would go equally out to both outputs or would I be better off just bumping up the levels in my AVR for the house curve? Currently I just bump up my level +3db at the line level and the sub trim +3-4db on my AVR.

I was also eventually looking at doing some BEQ on them as well. Im assuming it would be the same as above, but instead of the house curve on the input side I would import the BEQ file.

This is the combined response with no EQ/no boost applied to the subs. I have a big hole at 40hz, but Ive played around and it doesnt seem to go away. Im in a open floorplan and it proving to be pretty tough. Im also very limited in placement options and the wife pretty much told me they have to stay up front as this is what was agreed upon for me to get a second one. lol
You will not be able to bring up that dip at 45hz with EQ if it is a null, only alternate placement will fix that.

You want to EQ both subs together. You would import the EQ filters from REW to both outputs.

If you plan to use BEQ, you need all of your EQ filters and house curve to be on the MiniDSP outputs as BEQ imports to the Input side.
ahblaza and jsc79 like this.
Alan P is offline  
post #27264 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 11:51 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut.
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 55
I re-did some testing this weekend inverting polarity, but response was worse. In fact sooo bad, I didn't even bother to keep the file. Finally had good quiet time to run Audyssey and pleased with the result - well for time being anyway and get a bug up my rear. Actually come to think of it, Audyssey set the sub trim to -12 so for sure, I've got more adjustments to make since who knows how much it's actually beyond -12.

First graph is combined sub response pre/post running Audyssey. It smoothed out some but still have some dips I would like to resolve. I have minimal room treatments and not sure how to address the mid 20 hz drops. Luckily the the 80 hz dip gets filled in but still think its worth looking into correcting.

Second graph is with center + subs with RC on and trying to decide on crossover point. I adjusted the responses in the control tab to separate them by 2.5 for ease of viewing. Surprisingly a crossover at 40 hz appears the smoothest in xo region. Should I leave it at 40?

Last graph is preference only with trying to determine house curve to my liking - I generally like my subs 4 db hot but wanted to see what dynamic EQ would do with a reference offset of 10 db. Responses were measured with MV at -25.
Footnote: After putting all measuring equipment away, we watched Overlord with BEQ file loaded into MiniDSP. MV set to -20 and started with dynamic EQ on at 10 db ref offset and subs 4 db hot. After 30 minutes or so, adjusted dynamic EQ to 15 db offset. Much, much better.

Lots more experimenting with dynamic EQ, vs running subs even hotter than 4 db. Time will tell.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	combined subs pre and post Audy.png
Views:	15
Size:	31.0 KB
ID:	2569198   Click image for larger version

Name:	center+subs XO selections.png
Views:	15
Size:	41.1 KB
ID:	2569200   Click image for larger version

Name:	center+subs hot and with dy-eq.png
Views:	14
Size:	38.9 KB
ID:	2569202  

Sony 75X940E, Sony X700, Roku Ultra, Denon X6200 processing to 2 Parasound HCA-855’s & 1 HCA-750
Mission 705a L&R, dual 70c3 centers, 705 back, 703 surround & 4 Yamaha NSIC800 in ceiling
Subs- Front: M&K MX-200 & MX-150THX; Rear: M&K V-75 & Klipsch RW-12

Last edited by Kevnmin; 05-20-2019 at 11:56 AM.
Kevnmin is offline  
post #27265 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 11:51 AM
Senior Member
 
jsc79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You will not be able to bring up that dip at 45hz with EQ if it is a null, only alternate placement will fix that.

You want to EQ both subs together. You would import the EQ filters from REW to both outputs.

If you plan to use BEQ, you need all of your EQ filters and house curve to be on the MiniDSP outputs as BEQ imports to the Input side.
Yea, I will just have to live with the null. I plan on just leaving it alone.

When you say "You want to EQ both subs together. You would import the EQ filters from REW to both outputs." - are you saying run the sweep with both subs combined and then import that file into each output?

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18
Speakers: L/R Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2 - Center - Ascend Acoustics Horizon w/RAAL - Surrounds: Sonance VP62R SST/SUR
Video: Sony XBR65X900e 65" 4K - Sony UBP-X800 Blu Ray
Power and Processing: Yamaha RXA1030 - Monolith 7X Amp - Minidsp 2X4 HD

Last edited by jsc79; 05-20-2019 at 11:55 AM.
jsc79 is online now  
post #27266 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11,369
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6125 Post(s)
Liked: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc79 View Post
Yea, I will just have to live with the null. I plan on just leaving it alone.

When you say "You want to EQ both subs together. You would import the EQ filters from REW to both outputs." - are you saying run the sweep with both subs combined and then import that file into each output?
Correct.
jsc79 likes this.
Alan P is offline  
post #27267 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 11:57 AM
Senior Member
 
jsc79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Correct.
Awesome, Thanks for the help!

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18
Speakers: L/R Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2 - Center - Ascend Acoustics Horizon w/RAAL - Surrounds: Sonance VP62R SST/SUR
Video: Sony XBR65X900e 65" 4K - Sony UBP-X800 Blu Ray
Power and Processing: Yamaha RXA1030 - Monolith 7X Amp - Minidsp 2X4 HD
jsc79 is online now  
post #27268 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 12:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
GrandPixel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 836
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 291 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Running MSO has done wonders for my system as well.
GrandPixel is offline  
post #27269 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 01:26 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,193
Mentioned: 368 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10806 Post(s)
Liked: 6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
I re-did some testing this weekend inverting polarity, but response was worse. In fact sooo bad, I didn't even bother to keep the file. Finally had good quiet time to run Audyssey and pleased with the result - well for time being anyway and get a bug up my rear. Actually come to think of it, Audyssey set the sub trim to -12 so for sure, I've got more adjustments to make since who knows how much it's actually beyond -12.

First graph is combined sub response pre/post running Audyssey. It smoothed out some but still have some dips I would like to resolve. I have minimal room treatments and not sure how to address the mid 20 hz drops. Luckily the the 80 hz dip gets filled in but still think its worth looking into correcting.

Second graph is with center + subs with RC on and trying to decide on crossover point. I adjusted the responses in the control tab to separate them by 2.5 for ease of viewing. Surprisingly a crossover at 40 hz appears the smoothest in xo region. Should I leave it at 40?
I thing the first measurement shows that room correction is doing a pretty good job. The second screenshot shows measurements to 20KHz, and is smoothed. In order to correctly assess which crossover is working best, please re-post those measurements limited 15-300Hz with no smoothing. IMO, 40Hz is way too low for a crossover. Why have subs if you are not going to let them do the work. And remember, before selecting a crossover< you should conduct the sub distance tweak for each of the crossover values. The tweak can make a big difference in the crossover region.

And you should dial down the sub gain controls and re-run Audyssey. The trim maxed out at -12 indicates the sub gains are too high. Shoot for something like -4 or -5 for the trim levels.
ahblaza likes this.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #27270 of 27314 Old 05-20-2019, 01:30 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,193
Mentioned: 368 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10806 Post(s)
Liked: 6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandPixel View Post
Running MSO has done wonders for my system as well.
If so, why not share some before and after measurements? Evidence is what makes contributions to this thread meaningful.
ahblaza likes this.
AustinJerry is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off