Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 922 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27631 of 27720 Old 07-25-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Ok-update. I think I got it right. I have my AVR settings the same as above and set target to 98 dB under the subwoofer one and then ran a measurement and after that hit the match response to target. And then exported the coifficient of the EQ and imported that to MiniDSP. It took/made 4 filters

My question is: I had my sub gain and my AVR sub trim for those measurements. I don’t plan on keeping my sub gain at 0-more like -10 or -15 or so. Also, when I turn back on Dirac, my trim will not be 0. Will this matter for the text file that was saved and imported to my MiniDSP with my new PEQ filters since they were all done at 0 through REW?

also, should I be doing multiple measurements just for Duel bass readings in order to develop EQ filters to send to MiniDSP or is the one I took at MLP sufficient?
The generation of EQ filters nor their implementation will be effected by the master volume or trim levels. The frequency response stays the same regardless of output level (up to the point compression sets in).

Some folks use multiple measurements, some use a single measurement at the MLP. It depends on what your goal is (i.e. best response at the MLP, or compromising the MLP for a smoother response across a wider seating area).
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post #27632 of 27720 Old 07-28-2019, 05:07 PM
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Looking for some help with the REW Room Simulator, for the best locations of my next two subs;
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV18.html
The crossover will be at highest setting (around 20 Hz).

Need someone that do understand REW, to verified my findings.

Info to use;
-Room is 18 ft long/5.49 m
-12 ft wide/3.66 m
-8 ft ceiling/2.44 m
-Main MLP is 6 ft/1.83 m, from the back wall and side walls
-Main speakers are 8 in/0.20 from the sides front wall, and 20 in/0.51 m from front wall.

The best placements I found was the following (due to my room restrictions, I can only use the right side [see pictures on my Theater threads]);
-Sub 1, 45.275 in/1.15 m. From the right wall, and 3 in/0.076 m from the front wall
-Sub 2 around 3 in/0.076 m, from the back and right wall.

If anyone would verified those locations, it would be greatly appreciated!!!

On a side note, since the REW require a computer. It is above my understand and did read this thread
I just need the best two locations to start with, and will let the Audyssey XT32 do the rest.


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post #27633 of 27720 Old 08-01-2019, 08:50 AM
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@AustinJerry , is there any difference in b/w using your guide to time align subs VS using REW Timing Reference and then using Overlay Impulse to align the impulses?
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post #27634 of 27720 Old 08-01-2019, 09:09 AM
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Hi everyone.

I’m currently running REW on my surface Pro. To this point the only input I’ve used has been a microphone (UMIK 1) to do sweeps of my set up and it’s worked very well.

However, for the first time I want to run a particular channel from my AVR directly into REW (no microphone at all). Once I run the sweeps I want to use the feature within REW that will indicate what EQ I must use to flatten the signal completely. I’m not sure how to execute this within REW but I’ll figure that out after I determine how to connect the channel to my surface pro.

The problem I have is that my surface pro does not contain any RCA inputs or 3.5 mm for that matter. Should I be looking on Amazon for a USB device that would have RCA or 3.5 mm inputs in order to connect AVR directly to PC for REW sweeps?

Thanks in advance for help.


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post #27635 of 27720 Old 08-04-2019, 09:47 AM
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@ddigler


I don't understand. Why do you want to record the AVR's output directly into REW?

Good sound is always the result of engineering. And engineering always starts with measuring. Consumer industry and mainstream will never tell customers about that: improvements in room acoustics are worth roughly ten (10!) times the amount spent on equipment like speakers and receivers. For example: only $500 in room treatment is worth more than spending $5000 (fivethousand) on equipment.
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post #27636 of 27720 Old 08-04-2019, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
@ddigler


I don't understand. Why do you want to record the AVR's output directly into REW?


Hey Skin thanks for checking in.

I am using Crowson motion actuators under my front row of seating in my theater. Whereas my subwoofer array benefits from equalization applied by Audy, the Crowson‘s are to have a ‘clean’ signal, completely unaltered. However with my AVR there is no way to activate a subwoofer LFE channel without it being subsequently EQ’d by Audyseey.

What I am trying to do is run sweeps of my LFE channel, determine what changes Audy has made and then use my MiniDSP (connected in line between AVR and Crowson amp) to offset the EQ applied by Audy so that the Crowson’s are given a completely clean signal to amplify.

It was recommended to me that I connect directly to my PC running REW for this task at which point REW will tell me what filters I must apply to offset Audy applied EQ. I believe the reason for connecting directly to the REW PC is to eliminate room acoustics from the equation.

Thoughts/recommendations on how to accomplish this?
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post #27637 of 27720 Old 08-04-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
Hey Skin thanks for checking in.

I am using Crowson motion actuators under my front row of seating in my theater. Whereas my subwoofer array benefits from equalization applied by Audy, the Crowson‘s are to have a ‘clean’ signal, completely unaltered. However with my AVR there is no way to activate a subwoofer LFE channel without it being subsequently EQ’d by Audyseey.

What I am trying to do is run sweeps of my LFE channel, determine what changes Audy has made and then use my MiniDSP (connected in line between AVR and Crowson amp) to offset the EQ applied by Audy so that the Crowson’s are given a completely clean signal to amplify.

It was recommended to me that I connect directly to my PC running REW for this task at which point REW will tell me what filters I must apply to offset Audy applied EQ. I believe the reason for connecting directly to the REW PC is to eliminate room acoustics from the equation.

Thoughts/recommendations on how to accomplish this?
Page 106 of the REW Guide describes how to take a "Pre-out Measurement" using REW.
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post #27638 of 27720 Old 08-04-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
@AustinJerry , is there any difference in b/w using your guide to time align subs VS using REW Timing Reference and then using Overlay Impulse to align the impulses?
Your question is not clear to me.

Sub time alignment is a two-step process. First, if you have multiple subs, the subs must be time-aligned with each other. Page 22 of the 2x4 Setup Guide linked in my sig describes this process.

Second, the combined sub signal need to be time-aligned with the mains, which is typically done by observing the smoothness of the frequency response around the crossover frequency, which is what the Subwoofer Distance Tweak procedure is used for.

If you still have questions, please let me know.
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post #27639 of 27720 Old 08-04-2019, 12:11 PM
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@ddigler
Do you have unused channels in your AVR? Then you could use zone 2 (not equalized) as preout.
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Good sound is always the result of engineering. And engineering always starts with measuring. Consumer industry and mainstream will never tell customers about that: improvements in room acoustics are worth roughly ten (10!) times the amount spent on equipment like speakers and receivers. For example: only $500 in room treatment is worth more than spending $5000 (fivethousand) on equipment.
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post #27640 of 27720 Old 08-05-2019, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Page 106 of the REW Guide describes how to take a "Pre-out Measurement" using REW.
Thanks Jerry I'll check that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
@ddigler
Do you have unused channels in your AVR? Then you could use zone 2 (not equalized) as preout.
This is an interesting idea Skin. How would this work? LFE (sub) output would be routed to Zone 2 preout on AVR and they are not equalized by Audy? Not sure I fully understand...
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post #27641 of 27720 Old 08-06-2019, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
@ddigler
Do you have unused channels in your AVR? Then you could use zone 2 (not equalized) as preout.
Subwoofer 1 out on my AVR is feeding my minidsp HD. On the minidsp, channel 1 out feeds my SW array and channel 2 out feeds the Crowson amp for motion actuators. @aron7awol suggested using the USB streaming feature of the minidsp which should allow the AVR signal to return to REW through USB cable connecting minidsp and PC.

So, as I understand it, REW signal out will be via HDMI from my PC to my AVR as always. And the AVR out to REW will be via USB back into my PC. I'm going to give it a go and see what happens.

@aron7awol - what would you suggest regarding sweep range for my LFE channel? I cannot remember but is out 4 'subwoofer' what I should use in REW to capture just the subwoofer out on AVR? For that matter maybe I can run 10-500hz on center channel and get what I need from LFE channel?
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post #27642 of 27720 Old 08-06-2019, 12:53 PM
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nothing works

I installed the latest update and now I get zero response. I attempt to measure but it states output not connected. Nothing has changed from yesterday morning when everything worked fine. The update fouled something up that I cannot troubleshoot.

Any ideas?
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post #27643 of 27720 Old 08-06-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post
I installed the latest update and now I get zero response. I attempt to measure but it states output not connected. Nothing has changed from yesterday morning when everything worked fine. The update fouled something up that I cannot troubleshoot.

Any ideas?
I just installed the latest version, 5.2 beta 18, and I have to admit, there are quite a few unexpected changes since the last time I ran REW. For example, the Cal Files tab on the preferences is completely different, and I haven’t had time to understand the changes. I had to re-input the mic cal file. After I did that, I was ble to get measurements working just fine. I recommend running the ASIO troubleshooting steps in the guide.
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post #27644 of 27720 Old 08-06-2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I just installed the latest version, 5.2 beta 18, and I have to admit, there are quite a few unexpected changes since the last time I ran REW. For example, the Cal Files tab on the preferences is completely different, and I haven’t had time to understand the changes. I had to re-input the mic cal file. After I did that, I was ble to get measurements working just fine. I recommend running the ASIO troubleshooting steps in the guide.
Thanks Jerry.

Had to take a long break; stressed out.

I ended up uninstalling all and going through your setup guide, basically starting over. Think it was ultimately an issue with ASIO and like you found out, I think the mic cal was an issue as well.

All is working again.
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post #27645 of 27720 Old 08-08-2019, 07:31 AM
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Hello everyone,

I just received my umik-1 and I'm trying to do some analysis (based on the step by step guide).
By looking at the charts, I think my room is pretty bad... I would like to know if you have some advices regarding what I should do first to improve ?

My equipment:
AVR: Yamaha RX-V581 (all measurement done in Straight mode)
Polk S50 x2, S30, S15 x2
Rythmik LVX12 (1P-HT)

Here is a map of my living room, I cannot rearrange the speaker positions.. so my only hope is to work on EQ + some room treatment (absorber panels).
The center speaker is embedded within the TV cabinet, tilted towards MLP (middle of sofa) => I assume it's this configuration that produces all these reflections above -20db).

I will relocate to a new country in few months, so my goal is not to have now the best environment possible, but instead do some tests regarding EQ and room acoustic treatment to see what works or not (i plan to do some DIY acoustic panels (absorber only for the moment).
I don't think I can do bass traps (even though it looks to be the number 1 priority) as it won't pass WAF.
I think I will also later resell my current AVR and get one with Audyssey XT32.

Gallery of my REW measurements

ps: my room floor noise is around 58-60db, so I did all measurements around 100db

Thank you

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post #27646 of 27720 Old 08-09-2019, 08:33 AM
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What are the axis limits to use for correctly using the Impulse feature in REW? Why does mine look like a child used a crayon to draw the impulse lines?
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post #27647 of 27720 Old 08-09-2019, 09:12 AM
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What are the axis limits to use for correctly using the Impulse feature in REW? Why does mine look like a child used a crayon to draw the impulse lines?
Don't know. I have attached my impulse showing the settigs I am using.
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post #27648 of 27720 Old 08-10-2019, 05:12 AM
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I’m building my home theater with a 14’W 16’L 145” screen.

Audio Equipment:
Receiver: Marantz 7702 MK 2
Amplifiers: 7 x Samson SX1200 Class AB power Amps for speakers
2 x Behringer iNuke3000DSP for Aura bass shakers and Earthquake mini QSB
Subwoofer: HSU VTF15H
Speakers: (all Polk)
FL + FR : RTi12
FWL + FWR : Monitor 40
TRL + TRR + TFL + TFR : Monitor 40
SL + SR + SBL + SBR : FSi A6
Center : CSi A6
Front row seats : 4 x Aura Bass shakers
Rear row seats : 4 x Earthquake Mini QSB

manuals.marantz.com/AV7702MK2/NA/EN/fig/Pict%20SP%20Layout%2011.1%20TR%20TF_DRDZILxnqjiedn .png

The room is acoustically built with sound isolator clips on hat channels, double 3/8 drywall with green glue, Roxul insulation all sides etc. The room is still under construction with drywalls up and wiring done.

I also have 18 of 2’x4’ mineral sheets with speaker cloth for acoustic treatment.

I’m just an audio armature planning on DIY for calibrating the room with REW and UMM 6. But I don’t have a clear understanding of how to acoustically treat the room with proper bass traps and sound absorption. Can some one help me with steps I should take to treat this room and how to use REW?

Does REW help with adjusting the EQ on my Marantz receiver and the amp level for each channel?
Can REW help with placement of my sound absorption panels?

It will be nice if someone could explain how..

Thank you very much.
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post #27649 of 27720 Old 08-10-2019, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Chandra Sekhar View Post

Does REW help with adjusting the EQ on my Marantz receiver and the amp level for each channel?
Can REW help with placement of my sound absorption panels?
As for adjusting the EQ and levels on the Marantz, one would typically allow Audyssey room correction to do this. REW can be used to assess how well the Audyssey results are, which in most cases would be better than manually setting EQ and levels.

REW can also assess room reflections and bass resonance. Consult the guide linked in my sig for the basic approach. Use the ETC measurement to assess the severity of reflections and to aid in identifying placement of acoustic treatments. Use the waterfall measurement to assess bass resonance and whether bass traps would provide an improvement. Bass traps are typically placed at wall intersections and in corners. As you add treatments, REW can help you assess how well the treatments are improving room response characteristics.
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post #27650 of 27720 Old 08-10-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
Subwoofer 1 out on my AVR is feeding my minidsp HD. On the minidsp, channel 1 out feeds my SW array and channel 2 out feeds the Crowson amp for motion actuators. @aron7awol suggested using the USB streaming feature of the minidsp which should allow the AVR signal to return to REW through USB cable connecting minidsp and PC.



So, as I understand it, REW signal out will be via HDMI from my PC to my AVR as always. And the AVR out to REW will be via USB back into my PC. I'm going to give it a go and see what happens.


@aron7awol - what would you suggest regarding sweep range for my LFE channel? I cannot remember but is out 4 'subwoofer' what I should use in REW to capture just the subwoofer out on AVR? For that matter maybe I can run 10-500hz on center channel and get what I need from LFE channel?


I’m not sure if that actually helps in your setup, but I recently worked on a similar scenario. I am connecting SW 1 on the AVR to the actual subwoofers and SW 2 to the MiniDSP and an iBeam transducer. There were two issues:

- Audyssey wants to „hear“ two subwoofers during the calibration if both sub out channels should be configured. However, I don’t want the iBeam in that calibration. So during the measurement I did not connect the iBeam but the subwoofers separately ( works if prior calibration they are set to equal delay and volume).

- Removing the impact of (a) Audyssey filters and (b) resonances of the transducer/furniture. Here I just measured the output of the transducer post Audyssey (without the SW) using the UMIK and created a corresponding eq file for the MiniDSP.

There may be more sophisticated ways for achieving this, particularly (a) may be better obtained by measuring the pre out, but so far I am happy with the result.
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post #27651 of 27720 Old 08-11-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by anothermib View Post
I’m not sure if that actually helps in your setup, but I recently worked on a similar scenario. I am connecting SW 1 on the AVR to the actual subwoofers and SW 2 to the MiniDSP and an iBeam transducer. There were two issues:

- Audyssey wants to „hear“ two subwoofers during the calibration if both sub out channels should be configured. However, I don’t want the iBeam in that calibration. So during the measurement I did not connect the iBeam but the subwoofers separately ( works if prior calibration they are set to equal delay and volume).

- Removing the impact of (a) Audyssey filters and (b) resonances of the transducer/furniture. Here I just measured the output of the transducer post Audyssey (without the SW) using the UMIK and created a corresponding eq file for the MiniDSP.

There may be more sophisticated ways for achieving this, particularly (a) may be better obtained by measuring the pre out, but so far I am happy with the result.


Hey Mib thanks for the tip. I have a mini DSP connected in line between my AVR and the amps for my subwoofers and motion actuators.

Fortunately mini DSP allows streaming from the USB connection. For REW I was able to run HDMI out of my PC into my AVR and then stream the output signal from mini DSP back into the PC via USB. It worked perfectly and cut out the response of the speakers and the room modes to determine what, if any, changes Audy was making to my motion actuator signal, which should be ideally a flat signal.
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post #27652 of 27720 Old 08-12-2019, 05:51 AM
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Should you run Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 first, then EQ with a miniDSP or vice versa ?
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post #27653 of 27720 Old 08-12-2019, 06:26 AM
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Should you run Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 first, then EQ with a miniDSP or vice versa ?
I have always preferred to let the automated room correction be the last alteration to the audio signal. Doing the manual EQ on the MiniDSP results in Audyssey having less issues to correct, which presumably yields better results.
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post #27654 of 27720 Old 08-12-2019, 07:38 AM
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I still need to read the guide, but just to make sure I have the correct parts when I get some time this weekend, I'd need:
-MiniDSP HD
-UMIK1
-HDMI cable long enough to go from my laptop to my receiver
-microphone stand to hold the mic

Anything I'm missing? Trying to get everything delivered by Friday so I can play over the weekend.
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post #27655 of 27720 Old 08-12-2019, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have always preferred to let the automated room correction be the last alteration to the audio signal. Doing the manual EQ on the MiniDSP results in Audyssey having less issues to correct, which presumably yields better results.
Thanks for the prompt reply Jerry that's what I will do
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post #27656 of 27720 Old 08-15-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
That is strange. As far as I know, there is no place in REW to get the channel assignment mixed up. HDMI1=Left front, HDMI2=Right front, etc. You don't have any other signal processor in the audio signal path, do you? I can't see the AVR switching channel assignments, and your computer shouldn't be doing anything either.
I just started with REW and ran into a similar (worse??) issue. I can select my eight inputs (2.1, 2.2, etc.) and can select two if I want. The active channels often do not correspond to the assignment, and worse, randomly change. Output one is sometimes Left front, sometimes right front, and sometimes both Surround rears. I have (once!) been able to activate the center channel with output 4, but the next time I get nothing, or both fronts. I recently downloaded the newest Beta and ASIO4ALL. I can do a sweep, but it's almost impossible to level match all my speakers.
Another question: is there any way I can measure ONLY the two subs, short of disconnecting the F and R speakers?

Thanks from a noob...
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post #27657 of 27720 Old 08-15-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisda1 View Post

Another question: is there any way I can measure ONLY the two subs, short of disconnecting the F and R speakers?

Thanks from a noob...
Sending the test sweep to HDMI4 will route the signal to the LFE channel, which is subs only. Be aware that the HDMI4 level is 10dB higher than the other HDMI channels.

I have no clue why you are getting random speaker assignments for the HDMI channels. You are the second person who has reported this issue, which is a fairly recent one.
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post #27658 of 27720 Old 08-16-2019, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Sending the test sweep to HDMI4 will route the signal to the LFE channel, which is subs only. Be aware that the HDMI4 level is 10dB higher than the other HDMI channels.

I have no clue why you are getting random speaker assignments for the HDMI channels. You are the second person who has reported this issue, which is a fairly recent one.
Turns out the HDMI issue was due to HDMI cable. I found an older cable and it worked without issue.
Thanks for the help!
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post #27659 of 27720 Old 08-16-2019, 10:36 AM
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Okay, I took the plunge and purchased a Mini DSP HD and it arrived today.

I was messing around with REW a few months ago, got a bunch of good help from the users on here, but I was unable to eliminate a certain dip, and grew frustrated so I quit lol.

Anyways - now I am back and looking forward to EQ'ing my FR, if that makes sense. If memory serves me right I have a slight dip around 20hz and a slight dip around 80hz w/ my FV25hp.

Anyways - once I've found the best FR for my sub, whats the next best step w/ my mini to take to correct, or heighten certain frequencies




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post #27660 of 27720 Old 08-16-2019, 10:42 AM
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Okay, I took the plunge and purchased a Mini DSP HD and it arrived today.

I was messing around with REW a few months ago, got a bunch of good help from the users on here, but I was unable to eliminate a certain dip, and grew frustrated so I quit lol.

Anyways - now I am back and looking forward to EQ'ing my FR, if that makes sense. If memory serves me right I have a slight dip around 20hz and a slight dip around 80hz w/ my FV25hp.

Anyways - once I've found the best FR for my sub, whats the next best step w/ my mini to take to correct, or heighten certain frequencies
Page 31 of the 2x4 Guide linked in my sig talks about using REW's EQ tool on the 2x4. Using it on the 2x4HD should be the same procedure.
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