Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 939 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28141 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
A brief technical explanation that you know, what you are doing:

Any linear time invariant system can be fully described by its impulse response.
And the beauty is, that acoustically a room is behaving like a LTI-system.


So if we have the impulse response of such an LTI-system (a room), we can feed that system any input, we already know perfectly how the system will react and therefore what the output will be to a certain input.
Mathematically the input signal (sound) is convolved with the impulse response (of that system) and the result is the reaction of the system to the input signal (reaction = sound of the room to the input signal).


By measuring with REW the impulse response of the room at that mic location is created (you can watch it in REW in the "Impulse" window).
REW allows to export the impulse.


Then it is loaded into a convolution reverb:
https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/convolution-reverb/

https://www.audioease.com/altiverb/


If you don't want to install the necessary software (convolvers are also available as freeware) and explore this topic on you rown, I can make a short clip how your room sounds to hear the lack of mids yourself.
Holy Crap! So you have, based on my posted .mdat, made an audio file that perfectly replicates the sound of my room that you can playback on, computer? headphones? etc?

How do you prevent the response of audio playback equipment and room in which you are listening to said file from effecting the audible accuracy of the short clip of my room?

Yes please, I would love to d/l this short clip of my room that you speak of - You kept on saying 'your room sounds so good' but 'lacks mids' and I'm thinking 'how the heck does he know?' lol Figured you were just interpreting my .mdat response graphs in .REW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
I would focus on the Center speaker. And once you are happy with the sound and the measurement results of the center, export the MultEQ .ady file, open it in ratbuddyssey and copy the filterpoints you created for the center to all other channels, save the file and reload the changed .ady file in MultEQ. Close teh file in MultEQ and after opening that file a second time the frequency changes should be displayed in all channels.

Do not forget to save the AVR config first!
And if you have a sub distance tweak or any speaker level changes, don't forget that sending a new file from MultEQ to the AVR overwrites the manual changes in the AVR with the parameters stored in MultEQ.

Sadly MultEQ does not allow to adjust the Q of the filter. So the curve it creates usually is boosted/cut too broad to make detailed corrections with one filter.
But by placing at 0 dB a filter point above and one below the frequency range you want to correct, you can use these two additional filter points as anchors to force MultEQ to draw/create a more narrow boost.

Just play with the three filter points until the resulting curve only boosts the range you want boosted while leaving the neighboring ranges as untouched as possible.

The curve MultEQ displays and how the measurements will change and what can be heard is not always as expected. Probably you will need several iterative changes until you get what you want to hear.
I can do all of this tweaking with my Marantz SR7010 AVR then? Didnt know I could tweak MultEQ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
Be aware that +2 dB in that range can make a big difference. Strangely even more so in MultEQ where small changes somehow can result in big changes in sound.
Yea? To @AustinJerry point I did not realize 5db +/- was even perceptible... NOT attempting to start a dust up, just want to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
And always trust you rears: even if the measurement still shows a dip in the mids, it's possible that you have solved the problem already or reduced it a lot. Or created a new one.
LOL, I'd like to give this all a shot but would rather hear for myself the difference it will make with your file. is it possible for you to create before/after files for me to evaluate?

Maybe I'm not following you at all lol...
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post #28142 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post

Yea? To @AustinJerry point I did not realize 5db +/- was even perceptible... NOT attempting to start a dust up, just want to understand.
I did not mean to imply that 5dB was not audible. I simply meant that a response curve that was flat to within 5dB is considered to be quite good. At some point the law of diminishing returns sets in, and we need to evaluate the degree of difficulty in achieving that last incremental improvement.

I think it would be an interesting test to A/B two audio signals that differed by only 2dB across a narrow frequency range to see if the difference would be audible. Unfortunately, I don't know how to easily devise such a test.

Edit: I guess I could try a Dirac custom target like the one shown in the attachment and toggle between the +5dB Target and the flat target to see if I hear a difference.
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post #28143 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Sure, the txt info is below (Txt file is in an above post a couple up) as is a screen shot Attatchment of the PEQ in the MiniDSP program like you asked...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m14y60syxz...2010.mdat?dl=0
OK, filters look reasonable. You have 2 subs, correct? What do the Output settings on the MiniDSP look like? Are all crossovers and PEQs bypassed and all gains set to 0?
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post #28144 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The only aspect of DSU that I think is an improvement on PLIIx is centre channel extraction. But as far as upmixing music, I prefer PLIIx over DSU. The addition of height speakers turns a 2D ring of sound into a 3D bubble of sound.
Thanks Sanjay, interesting to know about DSU's centre extraction ability. Overall, I prefer PLIIx too.

I've not experienced listening to music in an Atmos environment but I presume that would only be possible via DSU.
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post #28145 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
I've not experienced listening to music in an Atmos environment but I presume that would only be possible via DSU.
DSU or Neural:X or Auro-Matic (all the immersive audio formats come bundled with an upmixer).

Sanjay
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post #28146 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 03:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
Holy Crap! So you have, based on my posted .mdat, made an audio file that perfectly replicates the sound of my room that you can playback on, computer? headphones? etc?

Yupp!


Quote:
How do you prevent the response of audio playback equipment and room in which you are listening to said file from effecting the audible accuracy of the short clip of my room?
Sure less coloration of the playback system is better, but the comparison with the original is what indicates what is missing. Therefore the on the fly comparisons.
Nearfield monitoring is preferred to hear the differences. But decent headphones should serve well, too.



Before you start with your hunt for the lost mids I would make measurements with Audyssey limited below Schroeder frequency only. Just to make sure the lack of mids are not a result of Audyssey...


All clips are mono. This allows easier playback over the center, and also prevents fooling the ear with stereo width.


Comparison between original and your room only:
Ramp1
00s orig
11s ddig room
13s orig
16s ddig
18s orig
21s ddig



https://mega.nz/#!to5znCBB!UBTI42Lhq...uXA2HDnyNWRRrk


Comparison btw. original, a small recording room and your room:

Ramp2_LD:
00s orig
11s a vocal recording room
19s ddig room
28s orig



https://mega.nz/#!QkxjCQTQ!JPluJviV_...sjYPtNVrAXEsgk




Comparison between original, a small vocal recording room, and your room with some EQing to compensate for the missing mids of your system:

Ramp3_LD:
00s orig
11s Vocal Room
19s ddig room + EQ
28s orig



https://mega.nz/#!8hgHAKSS!jNand8oCi...Y_rze2otX8-dJ0




Comparison between original, your room and your room + EQ:

Ramp 4:
00s orig
09s Vocal Room
17s ddig room + EQ
26s ddig room
34s ddig room + EQ
42s vocal room
52s ddig room + EQ
60s orig


https://mega.nz/#!Yt4hDYBC!OUSblYctj...6h-dCC5iTMKAC4






Adele - I miss you

00 orig
15 ddig room
23 orig
30 ddig room + EQ
36 orig
40 ddig room
47 orig
50 ddig room + EQ


https://mega.nz/#!gthH3CII!9FfeNfpCX...aY8nAAg-f5edPs



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post #28147 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Yupp!
This is unreal. Thanks!

Give me some time to digest this Skin. I'm headed out for the weekend but I'll mess with it. I'll be back in touch ASAP!
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post #28148 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 05:17 PM
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OMG-I just realized that I put all my PEQ filters into my 2x4 INPUT instead of putting them into the 2 OUTPUTS...could that have caused the screw up??

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post #28149 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 07:48 PM
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Ok, so a couple things I’ve done. I’ve moved the PEQ filters from the INPUT and put them on the MiniDSP HD 2 sub OUTPUTS (note that didn’t change much in the graph or bass)

I also, lowered my dual subs GAIN to -25 from -9. That seems to bring the levels of the sub closer to in line with the Center channel. To note, I am worried that if the gains are this low that my bass will sound very very anemic since I usually listen to it at -5 to -9...

Lastly I redid the subwoofer distance tweak 0-13 ms with the new settings.

Please take a look to tell me what to make of it. It still looks like 10 ms is the flattest over the crossover (80hz) but I don’t know if this graph looks right or if it is like Alan and Jerry said that it is moving in the wrong frequency when I change the delay.

Another note is that even though 10 ms delay seems a bit more flat-it also lowers the volume in the area by about 10dB (in the mid 60 range vs 75). Is this a bad trade off. Even if I get flatter in the crossover, wouldn’t that be a big hit in volume in the Center channel??

Also, 10 ms seems like a big delay for a small room (13x18 feet sitting in the long way) doesn’t it?

Last question-because I changed the PEQ from INPUT to the two OUTPUTS...will I have to rerun DIRAC even though it seems the same?

Here is the sub distance tweak setting if you guys could possibly take a look...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7tfizn2vjf...0-13.mdat?dl=0

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post #28150 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Ok, so a couple things I’ve done. I’ve moved the PEQ filters from the INPUT and put them on the MiniDSP HD 2 sub OUTPUTS (note that didn’t change much in the graph or bass)

I also, lowered my dual subs GAIN to -25 from -9. That seems to bring the levels of the sub closer to in line with the Center channel. To note, I am worried that if the gains are this low that my bass will sound very very anemic since I usually listen to it at -5 to -9...

Lastly I redid the subwoofer distance tweak 0-13 ms with the new settings.

Please take a look to tell me what to make of it. It still looks like 10 ms is the flattest over the crossover (80hz) but I don’t know if this graph looks right or if it is like Alan and Jerry said that it is moving in the wrong frequency when I change the delay.

Another note is that even though 10 ms delay seems a bit more flat-it also lowers the volume in the area by about 10dB (in the mid 60 range vs 75). Is this a bad trade off. Even if I get flatter in the crossover, wouldn’t that be a big hit in volume in the Center channel??

Also, 10 ms seems like a big delay for a small room (13x18 feet sitting in the long way) doesn’t it?

Last question-because I changed the PEQ from INPUT to the two OUTPUTS...will I have to rerun DIRAC even though it seems the same?

Here is the sub distance tweak setting if you guys could possibly take a look...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7tfizn2vjf...0-13.mdat?dl=0
I don't agree.



Delay of 2ms looks much better than delay of 10ms. I don't get where you think 10ms is flatter.

When you say you lowered the sub gain, where is this sub gain being set? I was under the impression that you could't make trim changes in the AVR after Dirac had been run. If you are talking about the gain setting on the sub plate amp, then that change would be a mistake and will invalidate the Dirac calibration. Please be more clear about what adjustments you are making where.

And when you moved the PEQ to the 2x4HD outputs, I assume you cleared the PEQ on the input, correct?

And as for having to re-run Dirac, that depends on your answer to my question regarding where you made the sub gain adjustment.
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post #28151 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Ok, so a couple things I’️ve done. I’️ve moved the PEQ filters from the INPUT and put them on the MiniDSP HD 2 sub OUTPUTS (note that didn’️t change much in the graph or bass)

I also, lowered my dual subs GAIN to -25 from -9. That seems to bring the levels of the sub closer to in line with the Center channel. To note, I am worried that if the gains are this low that my bass will sound very very anemic since I usually listen to it at -5 to -9...

Lastly I redid the subwoofer distance tweak 0-13 ms with the new settings.

Please take a look to tell me what to make of it. It still looks like 10 ms is the flattest over the crossover (80hz) but I don’️t know if this graph looks right or if it is like Alan and Jerry said that it is moving in the wrong frequency when I change the delay.

Another note is that even though 10 ms delay seems a bit more flat-it also lowers the volume in the area by about 10dB (in the mid 60 range vs 75). Is this a bad trade off. Even if I get flatter in the crossover, wouldn’️t that be a big hit in volume in the Center channel??

Also, 10 ms seems like a big delay for a small room (13x18 feet sitting in the long way) doesn’️t it?

Last question-because I changed the PEQ from INPUT to the two OUTPUTS...will I have to rerun DIRAC even though it seems the same?

Here is the sub distance tweak setting if you guys could possibly take a look...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7tfizn2vjf...0-13.mdat?dl=0
I don't agree.



Delay of 2ms looks much better than delay of 10ms. I don't get where you think 10ms is flatter.

When you say you lowered the sub gain, where is this sub gain being set? I was under the impression that you could't make trim changes in the AVR after Dirac had been run. If you are talking about the gain setting on the sub plate amp, then that change would be a mistake and will invalidate the Dirac calibration. Please be more clear about what adjustments you are making where.

And when you moved the PEQ to the 2x4HD outputs, I assume you cleared the PEQ on the input, correct?

And as for having to re-run Dirac, that depends on your answer to my question regarding where you made the sub gain adjustment.
Thanks for the response Jerry,

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but I was looking right over about 80 crossover-maybe including 5-10 on either side and I thought that the 10 looked flatter. Admittedly I’m untrained eye and not sure how far to look but I attatched a more narrow pic or the two (if those where in fact the two flattest at 80) below

What I meant by sub gain was that I changed the sub gain on the svsPC4000s from -9 to -25.

Yes, I reset the INPUT to zero and the. Added PEG to output.

Please advise what you think...
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post #28152 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks for the response Jerry,

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but I was looking right over about 80 crossover-maybe including 5-10 on either side and I thought that the 10 looked flatter. Admittedly I’m untrained eye and not sure how far to look but I attatched a more narrow pic or the two (if those where in fact the two flattest at 80) below

What I meant by sub gain was that I changed the sub gain on the svsPC4000s from -9 to -25.

Yes, I reset the INPUT to zero and the. Added PEG to output.

Please advise what you think...
Compared with the -2ms measurement, the -10ms measurement is -6dB @70Hz, -8dB @ 75Hz, -8dB @ 80Hz, -6dB @85Hz, and -1dB @ 90Hz.

As I said, if you changed the sub gain on the SVS subs, then that was incorrect. When you run the Dirac calibration, the combined sub level must be adjusted so that it is the same level as the mains. Once the calibration has completed, you cannot change the sub gain settings or the calibration is invalidated.

I assume that when you run the Dirac calibration, you are following to the letter the instructions in the guide linked in my sig, correct? Are you setting the sub levels properly during the level-setting step in the calibration?
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post #28153 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 09:55 PM
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Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techni

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks for the response Jerry,

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but I was looking right over about 80 crossover-maybe including 5-10 on either side and I thought that the 10 looked flatter. Admittedly I’️m untrained eye and not sure how far to look but I attatched a more narrow pic or the two (if those where in fact the two flattest at 80) below

What I meant by sub gain was that I changed the sub gain on the svsPC4000s from -9 to -25.

Yes, I reset the INPUT to zero and the. Added PEG to output.

Please advise what you think...
Compared with the -2ms measurement, the -10ms measurement is -6dB @70Hz, -8dB @ 75Hz, -8dB @ 80Hz, -6dB @85Hz, and -1dB @ 90Hz.

As I said, if you changed the sub gain on the SVS subs, then that was incorrect. When you run the Dirac calibration, the combined sub level must be adjusted so that it is the same level as the mains. Once the calibration has completed, you cannot change the sub gain settings or the calibration is invalidated.

I assume that when you run the Dirac calibration, you are following to the letter the instructions in the guide linked in my sig, correct? Are you setting the sub levels properly during the level-setting step in the calibration?
Thanks again Jerry, I’ll keep it at 2ms.

I think what I’ll do is just start fresh from the combined sub only setting to the PEQ to the MiniDSP to the Dirac again and then try the Samsun distance tweak again and hope that at that point the sub levels are closer to the mains.

I have done about 10 Dirac calibrations and I am pretty confident that I do it right but I’ll recheck. The one thing that I do differently from time to time is that I can’t recall if is best to start with the mic gain at max and then o my raise the main volume enough to get to the green in most or start with raising the main volume and only increase mic gain as needed to get the levels to green.

Also, in the same way as the master AVR volume doesn’t have to stay where it was left for the calibration to be valid post correction I was pretty sure that sub GAIN (not TRIM) was allowed to be adjusted to preference post Dirac and it would not neccissarily going to invalidate Dirac....

Isn’t that the same with most/all room calibration software-that as long as AVR levels/trims are not adjusted that the individual volume on sub (gain) can be raised or lowered post calibration?

I have a lot to learn...thanks for the patience and understanding...,

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post #28154 of 28346 Old 10-18-2019, 10:16 PM
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On the positive side, your most recent measurements show pretty good bass response, with only 6-8dB bass boost, which is reasonable. I guess you are correct, the sub gain can be adjusted after the calibration has been completed. However, the best way to apply bass boost with Dirac is with a custom target.
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post #28155 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
On the positive side, your most recent measurements show pretty good bass response, with only 6-8dB bass boost, which is reasonable. I guess you are correct, the sub gain can be adjusted after the calibration has been completed. However, the best way to apply bass boost with Dirac is with a custom target.
Yes, the graph looks straighter, but subjectively it sounds very very low bass-even on heavy bass tracks with the room feel curve.

It’s looking like I’ll have to go back to the drawing board if flat sounds this low bass.
-25 on both subs is at least 10-13 points LOWER GAIN then any of the times I have ever run DIRAC. Something must have been done wrong along all the many steps so I’ll just start from scratch since I (mostly) know what I’m doing.

Thanks for the help and I’ll post updated graphs from REW as soon as it’s completed

PS from what you could tell, was the amount that the Center channel frequency was changing with the sub distance tweak in line with what it’s supposed to do or was it still a dysfunctional overall pattern like it was when Alan first looked at it?

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post #28156 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 07:22 AM
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This is a measure of the LFE channel of my single sealed 12" sub (Rythmik L12) with PEQ applied in MiniDSP 2x4 HD (no boost applied). Would the dip centered around 62.5Hz be audible and if so, would it be particularly noticeable with music and movies?

The sub is placed about 1/4 of the room width (3ft) along front wall with driver facing left wall. So, the driver is about 3ft from FR corner. If I move it one foot closer to the right wall, the dip is only half as deep but the waterfall shows significantly more ringing and that is quite audible too. If I move fully in FR corner (2ft right) then the dip is a bit less deep then moving it just one 1ft right but the ringing is way worse.
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post #28157 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks again Jerry, I’ll keep it at 2ms.

I think what I’ll do is just start fresh from the combined sub only setting to the PEQ to the MiniDSP to the Dirac again and then try the Samsun distance tweak again and hope that at that point the sub levels are closer to the mains.

I have done about 10 Dirac calibrations and I am pretty confident that I do it right but I’ll recheck. The one thing that I do differently from time to time is that I can’t recall if is best to start with the mic gain at max and then o my raise the main volume enough to get to the green in most or start with raising the main volume and only increase mic gain as needed to get the levels to green.

Also, in the same way as the master AVR volume doesn’t have to stay where it was left for the calibration to be valid post correction I was pretty sure that sub GAIN (not TRIM) was allowed to be adjusted to preference post Dirac and it would not neccissarily going to invalidate Dirac....

Isn’t that the same with most/all room calibration software-that as long as AVR levels/trims are not adjusted that the individual volume on sub (gain) can be raised or lowered post calibration?

I have a lot to learn...thanks for the patience and understanding...,
I think the sub distance tweak is working as it should be, and I would keep the 2ms delay setting. You should always re-check the delay setting as a final step when you run a fresh calibration, just to verify nothing has changed. It is a simple procedure.

And as for the sub channel level, my recommendation would be as follows. Re-run the Dirac Live calibration, paying close attention to setting the sub channel so that its level is consistent with the main speaker levels. This setting will result in the most accurate calibration. Once the calibration has completed, you can raise the gain settings on the sub plate amps as far as you want so that you are satisfied with the overall bass level. Adjusting the sub gain will have no impact on the Dirac calibration or the sub delay setting, and there is nothing wrong with sub channel boost, if that is what sounds pleasing to you. I would then make a final REW measurement of subs+center just to see how it looks. Sharing that measurement here would allow us to see the results as well.

And one final note that I neglected to mention from one of your earlier posts. During the Dirac calibration, there is a specific guideline regarding how to set the mic input level. Please read the calibration guide linked in my sig. From page 2: "Drag the mic gain slider slowly to the left until you just start to see the mic input registering at the lower end of the scale (-36). This lowest mic input setting assures the best signal-to-noise ratio during the calibration." Do NOT set the mic input to its maximum value.
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post #28158 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 09:30 AM
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Impulse graph reading

Hello,
sorry if this was explained somewhere in this thread (because I am not finished reading it) but, in the impulse graph for the center, left and right speaker alignment the center speaker's peak is opposite the polarity of the others. They are aligned though. What does it mean you think?
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Originally Posted by Avsaddiction View Post
Hello,
sorry if this was explained somewhere in this thread (because I am not finished reading it) but, in the impulse graph for the center, left and right speaker alignment the center speaker's peak is inverted. The are aligned though. What does it mean you think?
It means that one of the three speakers has opposite polarity. I would check the polarity of your other speakers and sub(s) and make sure all speakers have the same polarity. A polarity issue can be caused by the speaker wires or, in some cases, by incorrect internal wiring on a speaker.
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post #28160 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 11:04 AM
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@JOHN

Hope I did this correctly?

When more than 8 or so measurements exist and one selects control panel while in all spl mode; the panel gets truncated and the smoothing dialog gets hidden. Been that way for awhile.
Thanks
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post #28161 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 01:18 PM
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@JOHN

Hope I did this correctly?

When more than 8 or so measurements exist and one selects control panel while in all spl mode; the panel gets truncated and the smoothing dialog gets hidden. Been that way for awhile.
Thanks
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His name is @JohnPM . Better to report issues in the REW Forum on AudioNirvana.com.
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post #28162 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks again Jerry, I’️ll keep it at 2ms.

I think what I’️ll do is just start fresh from the combined sub only setting to the PEQ to the MiniDSP to the Dirac again and then try the Samsun distance tweak again and hope that at that point the sub levels are closer to the mains.

I have done about 10 Dirac calibrations and I am pretty confident that I do it right but I’️ll recheck. The one thing that I do differently from time to time is that I can’️t recall if is best to start with the mic gain at max and then o my raise the main volume enough to get to the green in most or start with raising the main volume and only increase mic gain as needed to get the levels to green.

Also, in the same way as the master AVR volume doesn’️t have to stay where it was left for the calibration to be valid post correction I was pretty sure that sub GAIN (not TRIM) was allowed to be adjusted to preference post Dirac and it would not neccissarily going to invalidate Dirac....

Isn’️t that the same with most/all room calibration software-that as long as AVR levels/trims are not adjusted that the individual volume on sub (gain) can be raised or lowered post calibration?

I have a lot to learn...thanks for the patience and understanding...,
I think the sub distance tweak is working as it should be, and I would keep the 2ms delay setting. You should always re-check the delay setting as a final step when you run a fresh calibration, just to verify nothing has changed. It is a simple procedure.

And as for the sub channel level, my recommendation would be as follows. Re-run the Dirac Live calibration, paying close attention to setting the sub channel so that its level is consistent with the main speaker levels. This setting will result in the most accurate calibration. Once the calibration has completed, you can raise the gain settings on the sub plate amps as far as you want so that you are satisfied with the overall bass level. Adjusting the sub gain will have no impact on the Dirac calibration or the sub delay setting, and there is nothing wrong with sub channel boost, if that is what sounds pleasing to you. I would then make a final REW measurement of subs+center just to see how it looks. Sharing that measurement here would allow us to see the results as well.

And one final note that I neglected to mention from one of your earlier posts. During the Dirac calibration, there is a specific guideline regarding how to set the mic input level. Please read the calibration guide linked in my sig. From page 2: "Drag the mic gain slider slowly to the left until you just start to see the mic input registering at the lower end of the scale (-36). This lowest mic input setting assures the best signal-to-noise ratio during the calibration." Do NOT set the mic input to its maximum value.
Thanks again Jerry-gonna try from start right now redoing my subs PEQ then the rest. Two questions:

When doing my initial PEQ filters for the subs I believe I pressed calculate target level from response which changes the Targwt level from 75 to 88-93 I recall.

Should I NOT hit that before I press the match response to target? Also, should I press allow narrow filters below 200 (currently it is unchecked)

Thanks!

Also, I noticed that you selected NONE instead of SUBWOOFER in taget settings of the EQ section? Is this better or Should I continue to use the default SUB section?

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post #28163 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks again Jerry-gonna try from start right now redoing my subs PEQ then the rest. Two questions:

When doing my initial PEQ filters for the subs I believe I pressed calculate target level from response which changes the Targwt level from 75 to 88-93 I recall.

Should I NOT hit that before I press the match response to target? Also, should I press allow narrow filters below 200 (currently it is unchecked)

Thanks!

Also, I noticed that you selected NONE instead of SUBWOOFER in taget settings of the EQ section? Is this better or Should I continue to use the default SUB section?
Follow this guide: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/auto-eq-with-rew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks again Jerry-gonna try from start right now redoing my subs PEQ then the rest. Two questions:

When doing my initial PEQ filters for the subs I believe I pressed calculate target level from response which changes the Targwt level from 75 to 88-93 I recall.

Should I NOT hit that before I press the match response to target? Also, should I press allow narrow filters below 200 (currently it is unchecked)

Thanks!

Also, I noticed that you selected NONE instead of SUBWOOFER in taget settings of the EQ section? Is this better or Should I continue to use the default SUB section?
Follow this guide: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/auto-eq-with-rew
Thanks Jerry, the reason I ask is because

A) it is in fact a subwoofer that it’s measuring even though the guide says none

B) the REW guide on the same section (page 196/7) uses the example of a subwoofer

Would it be a problem using the subwoofer setting?

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post #28165 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks Jerry, the reason I ask is because

A) it is in fact a subwoofer that it’s measuring even though the guide says none

B) the REW guide on the same section (page 196/7) uses the example of a subwoofer

Would it be a problem using the subwoofer setting?
Here is a thought: click the setting that shows the target. Toggle the setting from “Sub” to “None”. Observe the setting’s impact on the target shape. Decide which shape more closely matches the response curve you want. There is no “right” or “wrong” answer, only different choices for different objectives.
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post #28166 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks Jerry, the reason I ask is because

A) it is in fact a subwoofer that it’️s measuring even though the guide says none

B) the REW guide on the same section (page 196/7) uses the example of a subwoofer

Would it be a problem using the subwoofer setting?
Here is a thought: click the setting that shows the target. Toggle the setting from “Subâ€Â to “Noneâ€Â. Observe the setting’️s impact on the target shape. Decide which shape more closely matches the response curve you want. There is no “rightâ€Â or “wrongâ€Â answer, only different choices for different objectives.
Ok-he’s something very interesting for you Jerry. I actually just completed the baseline Non PEQ sub measurements and made filters for Speaker NONE vs Speaker SUBWOOFER to put into separate MiniDSP slots. I attcatched both text PEQ files first reference along with the MDAT with all three to overlay. Bottom line-the subwoofer one was a lot flatter of a curve/line BUT it was around 97 dB...a little less then the pre filter sub readings but much higher then the speaker NONE one that was about 85 dB.

both PEQ was created and remeasured from the same initial sub no PEQ measurement before EQ in REW.

Weird that the subwoofer only would look a lot better and flatter and less deviance but way louder...

Just an FYI

I think I’ll use the speaker SUBWOOFER PEQ filters into the Dirac...what do you think about al this?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s1hx9ps4r...0PEQ.mdat?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t497g58edc...%20PM.txt?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/326w5syai5...%20PM.txt?dl=0
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post #28167 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 07:28 PM
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I think I’ll use the speaker SUBWOOFER PEQ filters into the Dirac...what do you think about al this?
Of course, use the one that has the best results.
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post #28168 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post

I think I’️ll use the speaker SUBWOOFER PEQ filters into the Dirac...what do you think about al this?
Of course, use the one that has the best results.
And I’m sure Dirac will eventually bring it in line with the other speakers when I do that so the fact that the sub filter is 15 dB higher then the NONE is probably moot.

May be an interesting topic to see if MOST people’s PEQ filters would come out better with the subwoofer Speaker elected instead of none iin REWs EQ menu f compared by overlay..,,

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post #28169 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 09:29 PM
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And I’m sure Dirac will eventually bring it in line with the other speakers when I do that so the fact that the sub filter is 15 dB higher then the NONE is probably moot.

May be an interesting topic to see if MOST people’s PEQ filters would come out better with the subwoofer Speaker elected instead of none iin REWs EQ menu f compared by overlay..,,
Your results for Target type = None show an unusually low level. I found that when using the Target = None, clicking on the "Calculate target level from response" sets the level unusually low. So, I start with the target = Sub, click "Calculate target level from response", and make a note of the level it sets. Then, for comparison, I select target = None, use the same target level, and see which result produces the best predicted result.

Target=Sub



Target=None




Note the different shape of the Targets. In this example, I think target=None produces the best predicted response. The example shows the value of experimenting with different settings in the EQ Tool.
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post #28170 of 28346 Old 10-19-2019, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
And I’️m sure Dirac will eventually bring it in line with the other speakers when I do that so the fact that the sub filter is 15 dB higher then the NONE is probably moot.

May be an interesting topic to see if MOST people’️s PEQ filters would come out better with the subwoofer Speaker elected instead of none iin REWs EQ menu f compared by overlay..,,
Your results for Target type = None show an unusually low level. I found that when using the Target = None, clicking on the "Calculate target level from response" sets the level unusually low. So, I start with the target = Sub, click "Calculate target level from response", and make a note of the level it sets. Then, for comparison, I select target = None, use the same target level, and see which result produces the best predicted result.

Target=Sub



Target=None




Note the different shape of the Targets. In this example, I think target=None produces the best predicted response. The example shows the value of experimenting with different settings in the EQ Tool.
Definetly a good point. Your two settings when volume matched where definetly a lot more similar to each other (toss up really)-mine seemed to be a fair bit better with the subwoofer one. I guess YMMV

By the way, how do you get so high readings and coming down at 15 hz where mine are very low around 15 hz and have to come up after that even though I have PC4000 and they are set in EXTENDED MODE?

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