Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 959 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28741 of 28810 Old 02-12-2020, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I agree--not much improvement with the new placements, but it was worth a try.

If you were to make your REW measurement file available for me to download, I can show you the correction you could expect using the 2x4 or the 2x4HD. Use a file sharing site like Dropbox.com or Google Drive to upload your MDAT file, and then post the link. Make sure your measurements are clearly identified. I need measurements of the combined sub signal without the mains.
I have created a drop box link and provided 2 mdat files. One with old position of subs placement front left and right and another file with new sub position Front and rear .

You can use both files.

Link i can only post on next post as it doesn't allow me to post as i have to have min 5 posts.


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post #28742 of 28810 Old 02-12-2020, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jijink View Post
I have created a drop box link and provided 2 mdat files. One with old position of subs placement front left and right and another file with new sub position Front and rear .

You can use both files.

Link i can only post on next post as it doesn't allow me to post as i have to have min 5 posts.


JIJI N K
Link for files now

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpkkf4c81...d2ulM5aZa?dl=0
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post #28743 of 28810 Old 02-12-2020, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jijink View Post
I have created a drop box link and provided 2 mdat files. One with old position of subs placement front left and right and another file with new sub position Front and rear .

You can use both files.

Link i can only post on next post as it doesn't allow me to post as i have to have min 5 posts.


JIJI N K
Link to files

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpkkf4c81...d2ulM5aZa?dl=0

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post #28744 of 28810 Old 02-12-2020, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jijink View Post
I was able to download and analyze the two measurement files. Using REW's EQ tool configured for the MiniDSP 2x4 (or the 2x4HD, which showed no difference in the corrected results), here is what I see.

First, the "new" sub location:



Next, the "old" sub location:



Showing only the corrected responses. First, "new" location:



Then the "old" location:




As you can see, the measurement response for the subs in the old location is actually more correctable using PEQ than the new sub location. And the corrected response looks pretty good, with the peaks below 100Hz flattened out. I suspect this will produce a noticeable improvement in the audio. Note that PEQ is ineffective in raising the response below 40Hz.

In summary, either the standard 2x4 or the 2x4HD shows promise of improving your bass response.
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post #28745 of 28810 Old 02-12-2020, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Here is an example of cryptic help information: “The name comes from the output of the
# PortAudioDevices program.”

It took me several minutes to even find PortAudioDevices.exe. When I ran it, it opened a brief CMD window, a bunch of text scrolled quickly by, and then the program terminated. I suspect it created an output file somewhere, but there is no mention of the file name, where it is located, or what to do with it.
It needs to be run from a command prompt rather than clicked on. Its output can be directed to a file (from the command prompt) by using '>'. Here is an example of how the command looks in a Windows PowerShell, with the output sent to a file called devices.txt in my home directory (PowerShell opens in your home directory by default). The part in blue is the powershell prompt:

PS C:\users\johnm> & '\program files\flexasio\x64\PortAudioDevices_x64.exe' > devices.txt

The & tells powershell to run the executable file specified. The output is a list of all the input and output devices it has found on the system for each of the various types of audio driver (MME, DirectSound, WASAPI). The important parts are the device names, since those are what goes in the config file.
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post #28746 of 28810 Old 02-12-2020, 08:28 PM
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Or maybe I have become impatient in my old age...
You're not alone...
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post #28747 of 28810 Old 02-12-2020, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
It needs to be run from a command prompt rather than clicked on. Its output can be directed to a file (from the command prompt) by using '>'. Here is an example of how the command looks in a Windows PowerShell, with the output sent to a file called devices.txt in my home directory (PowerShell opens in your home directory by default). The part in blue is the powershell prompt:

PS C:\users\johnm> & '\program files\flexasio\x64\PortAudioDevices_x64.exe' > devices.txt

The & tells powershell to run the executable file specified. The output is a list of all the input and output devices it has found on the system for each of the various types of audio driver (MME, DirectSound, WASAPI). The important parts are the device names, since those are what goes in the config file.
For those watching at home, the input and output devices that you intend to use (UMIK-1 and your AVR) should be connected to your computer before running PortAudioDevices_x64.exe (or PortAudioDevices.exe) to enumerate the devices.

Example output (builtin devices have been edited from the output as they would not be used in this application):

Code:
Device index: 1
Device name: "Microphone (Umik-1  Gain: 12dB "
Default sample rate: 44100
Input: max channel count 2, default latency 0.09s (low) 0.18s (high)
Output: max channel count 0, default latency 0.09s (low) 0.18s (high)
Host API name: MME
Host API type: 2 [MME]
DEFAULT INPUT DEVICE for this host API

Device index: 4
Device name: "TX-NR646-1 (NVIDIA High Definit"
Default sample rate: 44100
Input: max channel count 0, default latency 0.09s (low) 0.18s (high)
Output: max channel count 8, default latency 0.09s (low) 0.18s (high)
Host API name: MME
Host API type: 2 [MME]
DEFAULT OUTPUT DEVICE for this host API

Device index: 7
Device name: "Microphone (Umik-1  Gain: 12dB  )"
Default sample rate: 44100
Input: max channel count 2, default latency 0.12s (low) 0.24s (high)
Output: max channel count 0, default latency 0s (low) 0s (high)
Host API name: Windows DirectSound
Host API type: 1 [DirectSound]

Device index: 10
Device name: "TX-NR646-1 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)"
Default sample rate: 44100
Input: max channel count 0, default latency 0s (low) 0s (high)
Output: max channel count 8, default latency 0.12s (low) 0.24s (high)
Host API name: Windows DirectSound
Host API type: 1 [DirectSound]

Device index: 13
Device name: "TX-NR646-1 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)"
Default sample rate: 192000
Input: max channel count 0, default latency 0s (low) 0s (high)
Output: max channel count 6, default latency 0.003s (low) 0.01s (high)
Host API name: Windows WASAPI
Host API type: 13 [WASAPI]
DEFAULT OUTPUT DEVICE for this host API
WASAPI device default format: WAVEFORMAT with format tag 65534 [EXTENSIBLE], 6 channels,
192000 samples/second, 4608000 average bytes/second, block alignment 24 bytes,
32 bits per sample, 24 valid bits per sample, channel mask 1551 [Front Left, Front Right,
Front Center, Low Frequency, Side Left, Side Right],
subformat {00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71} [PCM]

Device index: 14
Device name: "Microphone (Umik-1  Gain: 12dB  )"
Default sample rate: 48000
Input: max channel count 2, default latency 0.003s (low) 0.01s (high)
Output: max channel count 0, default latency 0s (low) 0s (high)
Host API name: Windows WASAPI
Host API type: 13 [WASAPI]
DEFAULT INPUT DEVICE for this host API
WASAPI device default format: WAVEFORMAT with format tag 65534 [EXTENSIBLE], 2 channels,
48000 samples/second, 288000 average bytes/second, block alignment 6 bytes, 24 bits per
sample, 24 valid bits per sample, channel mask 3 [Front Left, Front Right], subformat
{00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71} [PCM]

Device index: 18
Device name: "Output (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)"
Default sample rate: 44100
Input: max channel count 0, default latency 0.01s (low) 0.04s (high)
Output: max channel count 8, default latency 0.01s (low) 0.04s (high)
Host API name: Windows WDM-KS
Host API type: 11 [WDMKS]
DEFAULT OUTPUT DEVICE for this host API

Device index: 19
Device name: "Microphone (Umik-1  Gain: 12dB)"
Default sample rate: 48000
Input: max channel count 2, default latency 0.01s (low) 0.0853333s (high)
Output: max channel count 0, default latency 0.01s (low) 0.0853333s (high)
Host API name: Windows WDM-KS
Host API type: 11 [WDMKS]
DEFAULT INPUT DEVICE for this host API
When adding the device names to C:\Users\YourUser\FlexASIO.toml, copy the device name including the quotes:

device = "Microphone (Umik-1 Gain: 12dB )"

Additionally, one would be selecting the WASAPI devices for input and output and it can be seen from the output example above how the device names differ.
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post #28748 of 28810 Old 02-13-2020, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I was able to download and analyze the two measurement files. Using REW's EQ tool configured for the MiniDSP 2x4 (or the 2x4HD, which showed no difference in the corrected results), here is what I see.

First, the "new" sub location:



Next, the "old" sub location:



Showing only the corrected responses. First, "new" location:



Then the "old" location:




As you can see, the measurement response for the subs in the old location is actually more correctable using PEQ than the new sub location. And the corrected response looks pretty good, with the peaks below 100Hz flattened out. I suspect this will produce a noticeable improvement in the audio. Note that PEQ is ineffective in raising the response below 40Hz.

In summary, either the standard 2x4 or the 2x4HD shows promise of improving your bass response.
HI Austin

Many thanks for your feedback and quick response.I'm happy with the results as well.

I will order Minidsp 2*4(not HD version), as both yields similar results. I might need support as well with minidsp 2*4 once i have it.
I started reading the guidelines you made for minidsp 2*4 and it is very brief and very good. I didn't understand some of them , i will get back to you once i have the minidsp 2*4 in my hands.
I will reposition my sub to old placement.

I have below questions:

1. Did you implement equalisation from 15 to 300Hz? As we have cut off after 80Hz, is it really necessary to implement equalisation after 80Hz??
2. In the old sub placement equalisation you showed separately after implementing the equaliser, i can see 10 equalisation points, whereas the new sub position after equalisation shows around 7 equalisation points. Whats the difference?
3. What frequency you selected for equalisation purpose? Is it from 15-300HZ? could you please specify.
4. below 40Hz after correction, we are making it flat, but there is no sound energy available in the equalisation process. Does it means the sound energy will be boosted to approx 85db after we implement the equalisation with mini dsp 2*4?
5. Is there anything i can do to improvise the response from 15 to 40 Hz like placing bass traps or sound observers etc?

BR
JIJI N K
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post #28749 of 28810 Old 02-13-2020, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jijink View Post
HI Austin

Many thanks for your feedback and quick response.I'm happy with the results as well.

I will order Minidsp 2*4(not HD version), as both yields similar results. I might need support as well with minidsp 2*4 once i have it.
I started reading the guidelines you made for minidsp 2*4 and it is very brief and very good. I didn't understand some of them , i will get back to you once i have the minidsp 2*4 in my hands.
I will reposition my sub to old placement.

I have below questions:

1. Did you implement equalisation from 15 to 300Hz? As we have cut off after 80Hz, is it really necessary to implement equalisation after 80Hz??
2. In the old sub placement equalisation you showed separately after implementing the equaliser, i can see 10 equalisation points, whereas the new sub position after equalisation shows around 7 equalisation points. Whats the difference?
3. What frequency you selected for equalisation purpose? Is it from 15-300HZ? could you please specify.
4. below 40Hz after correction, we are making it flat, but there is no sound energy available in the equalisation process. Does it means the sound energy will be boosted to approx 85db after we implement the equalisation with mini dsp 2*4?
5. Is there anything i can do to improvise the response from 15 to 40 Hz like placing bass traps or sound observers etc?

BR
JIJI N K
When you order, make sure you choose the correct model--either the balanced or the unbalanced version.

I have attached a screenshot of the settings I used in the EQ tool. I experimented with different settings, but could not improve significantly from using the default settings. I encourage you to experiment when you get your 2x4. The corrected response screenshot that I posted earlier is actually the one using the 2x4HD, which allows for more filters than the standard 2x4. I have attached the correct screenshot for the standard 2x4, which shows only six filters. I don't see a significant difference between the two results, but you should be the judge before you decide which 2x4 to order. I don't understand your question number 4. As for improving the response below 40Hz, you should not expect the 2x4 to be able to boost that frequency range. I suspect we are seeing the natural roll-off of your subs. To verify, you could take "near-field" measurements of your subs by placing the REW mic horizontally close to the sub's dust cap (1 inch away) and measuring each sub individually 10-300Hz.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	REW EQ Settings.PNG
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Size:	30.4 KB
ID:	2684400   Click image for larger version

Name:	Old sub position using Std 2x4.PNG
Views:	41
Size:	39.1 KB
ID:	2684402   Click image for larger version

Name:	Old sub position using Std 2x4 showing filters.PNG
Views:	39
Size:	45.0 KB
ID:	2684404   Click image for larger version

Name:	Old sub position using 2x4HD showing filters.PNG
Views:	39
Size:	42.3 KB
ID:	2684406  

Last edited by AustinJerry; 02-13-2020 at 08:10 AM.
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post #28750 of 28810 Old 02-13-2020, 10:19 AM
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Since FlexASIO configuration may be somewhat difficult to fathom I have added a control panel that takes care of generating and updating the configuration file. It will be in the next REW beta release.

Click image for larger version

Name:	flexasiopanel.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	11.3 KB
ID:	2684470
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post #28751 of 28810 Old 02-13-2020, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
When you order, make sure you choose the correct model--either the balanced or the unbalanced version.

I have attached a screenshot of the settings I used in the EQ tool. I experimented with different settings, but could not improve significantly from using the default settings. I encourage you to experiment when you get your 2x4. The corrected response screenshot that I posted earlier is actually the one using the 2x4HD, which allows for more filters than the standard 2x4. I have attached the correct screenshot for the standard 2x4, which shows only six filters. I don't see a significant difference between the two results, but you should be the judge before you decide which 2x4 to order. I don't understand your question number 4. As for improving the response below 40Hz, you should not expect the 2x4 to be able to boost that frequency range. I suspect we are seeing the natural roll-off of your subs. To verify, you could take "near-field" measurements of your subs by placing the REW mic horizontally close to the sub's dust cap (1 inch away) and measuring each sub individually 10-300Hz.
Now the equalizer parts were clarified. Thanks for sharing the equalizer settings.

My 4th question was related to below 40Hz will the equalizer will have effects ? But you clarified that as well as clearly in your reply.

DO i have to be specific in buying mini dsp 2*4 version? I heard latest is version b? If i buy in amazon, do i need to be specific in buying the latest revision? Do you have any thoughts about this?

Reg mini dsp 2*4 i'm planning for unbalanced version, because my avr sub pre output's is unbalanced RCA output. Would you please confirm, unbalanced 2*4 will serve my purpose. Also i will go for minidsp 2*4 now.

I will measure as you proposed for the sub's closely to see if its the sub's roll off or not.

When using minidsp 2*4, do i need to use one sub pre out from AV receiver or both sub 1&2 preout to mini dsp 2*4? In my Yamaha RXA 3080 i have 2 sub pre outputs.

Will my AV receiver will do the time alignment of the sub's, if i use both AV receiver sub output(1&2) or do I need to use one AV receiver sub pre output and do the time alignment using minidsp 2*4 for both subs?



BR
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post #28752 of 28810 Old 02-13-2020, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jijink View Post
Now the equalizer parts were clarified. Thanks for sharing the equalizer settings.

My 4th question was related to below 40Hz will the equalizer will have effects ? But you clarified that as well as clearly in your reply.

DO i have to be specific in buying mini dsp 2*4 version? I heard latest is version b? If i buy in amazon, do i need to be specific in buying the latest revision? Do you have any thoughts about this?

Reg mini dsp 2*4 i'm planning for unbalanced version, because my avr sub pre output's is unbalanced RCA output. Would you please confirm, unbalanced 2*4 will serve my purpose. Also i will go for minidsp 2*4 now.

I will measure as you proposed for the sub's closely to see if its the sub's roll off or not.

When using minidsp 2*4, do i need to use one sub pre out from AV receiver or both sub 1&2 preout to mini dsp 2*4? In my Yamaha RXA 3080 i have 2 sub pre outputs.

Will my AV receiver will do the time alignment of the sub's, if i use both AV receiver sub output(1&2) or do I need to use one AV receiver sub pre output and do the time alignment using minidsp 2*4 for both subs?



BR
JIJI NK
I recommend buying the 2x4 directly from MiniDSP. The balanced and unbalanced versions perform identically. And as to whether to use one or two sub outputs, I recommend that you read and follow the 2x4 implementation guide linked in my sig.
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post #28753 of 28810 Old 02-13-2020, 03:47 PM
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Since FlexASIO configuration may be somewhat difficult to fathom I have added a control panel that takes care of generating and updating the configuration file. It will be in the next REW beta release.

Attachment 2684470
Your a legend John
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post #28754 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 10:52 AM
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Hi Everyone, I am planning to embark on my REW journey, with the goal of finding the best location for my (single) sub; placement of L/C/R speakers; and for ascertaining the need for, and placement of some modest acoustical wall treatments.

The UMIK-1 microphone is not currently available from cross-spectrum.com. From what I've read, this version of UMIK-1 is preferable because of the calibration file that is included with the microphone.

Of course, the UMIK-1 microphone is also available from Amazon.com. It also claims to have a calibration file.

Are these microphones (and included calibration files) equivalent? Is it important or worthwhile to wait until the Cross Spectrum UMIK-1 microphone is available?

Thanks for helping me understand the differences!
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post #28755 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Supa Mint View Post
Hi Everyone, I am planning to embark on my REW journey, with the goal of finding the best location for my (single) sub; placement of L/C/R speakers; and for ascertaining the need for, and placement of some modest acoustical wall treatments.

The UMIK-1 microphone is not currently available from cross-spectrum.com. From what I've read, this version of UMIK-1 is preferable because of the calibration file that is included with the microphone.

Of course, the UMIK-1 microphone is also available from Amazon.com. It also claims to have a calibration file.

Are these microphones (and included calibration files) equivalent? Is it important or worthwhile to wait until the Cross Spectrum UMIK-1 microphone is available?

Thanks for helping me understand the differences!

The stock UMIK-1 calibration file is downloaded directly from MiniDSP here.
https://www.minidsp.com/products/aco...urement/umik-1
If I understand correctly, Cross-Spectrum offers a different calibration file that extends lower. The microphones are all the same, only the calibration file differs.
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post #28756 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 12:22 PM
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....If I understand correctly, Cross-Spectrum offers a different calibration file that extends lower. The microphones are all the same, only the calibration file differs.
Ok, interesting. Thank you for the clarification. So, if that's the case, then it's a matter of determining the value of the Cross-Spectrum calibration file, compared to the 'stock' calibration file. I'd be very interested to get some suggestions about whether it's worth it to get a UMIK-1 with Cross-Spectrum's improved calibration file.

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
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post #28757 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supa Mint View Post
Ok, interesting. Thank you for the clarification. So, if that's the case, then it's a matter of determining the value of the Cross-Spectrum calibration file, compared to the 'stock' calibration file. I'd be very interested to get some suggestions about whether it's worth it to get a UMIK-1 with Cross-Spectrum's improved calibration file.

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
IIRC, CS's mics are calibrated to 5Hz vs 10Hz for the "stock" mic.

Most of us on this thread have gotten our UMIKs direct from MiniDSP. Cheaper than Amazon and pretty fast delivery considering it comes from halfway around the world.
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post #28758 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 12:43 PM
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IIRC, CS's mics are calibrated to 5Hz vs 10Hz for the "stock" mic.
Oh, wow - that seems like a very insignificant difference (at least for MY home theater)! Thank you for the clarification, and for the suggestion to purchase the UMIK-1 at minidsp.com, rather than at Cross-Spectrum.com
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UMIK-1 Cal Files--CSL or MiniDSP Web Site?

OK, in an attempt to provide information for anyone who asks the question going forward--should I buy the UMIK-1 from Cross Spectrum Labs and get the custom, unique calibration files, or should I order from MiniDSP and use the calibration files downloaded from the web site?

Fortunately, I have a UMIK-1 that I purchased from CSL, and I downloaded the web site calibration files as well. First, let's compare the calibration files:

The CSL Calibration file:



The MiniDSP web site calibration file:



Finally, with the mic at the MLP, two measurements, one with each calibration file, 10-20,000 Hz, yields the following results:




As you can see, there seems to be quite a bit of difference in the actual calibration file entries. But in the range 20Hz to ~5KHz, the measurements are extremely close. Only above 5KHz do the measurements start to show clearly visible differences, with a 6dB difference at 17KHz, and a 10dB difference at 20KHz. So, do the differences justify purchasing from CSL rather than directly from MiniDSP? The reader needs to make the judgement.
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post #28760 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 03:31 PM
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I don't know why but for some reason immediately after reading that I could hear the voice of Paul Harvey saying "and now you know the rest of the story". Thanks Jerry
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post #28761 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 03:43 PM
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Jerry,

Would I be correct in assuming your CC is about 12-13" from your front wall? Just guessing that that dip at ~260Hz is SBIR. I've got one at ~200Hz on my CC that I need to try to treat, but getting a panel behind the CC is tricky with a wall mounted LED. Have you tried to fix that dip with any treatment?
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post #28762 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 03:55 PM
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Jerry,

Would I be correct in assuming your CC is about 12-13" from your front wall? Just guessing that that dip at ~260Hz is SBIR. I've got one at ~200Hz on my CC that I need to try to treat, but getting a panel behind the CC is tricky with a wall mounted LED. Have you tried to fix that dip with any treatment?
I spent quite a bit of time making the usual adjustments--moving the center forward and back, moving it up and down, and moving my MLP forward and back. I tested for SBIR and floor bounce, and even used the "blocking method" by temporarily placing a 2'x4' treatment immediately behind the center. Nothing I did made much of a difference. In the end, I decided that I really couldn't hear any bad effects from the dip--the center sounds great--so I quit trying. I listen to a lot of music in Dolby Surround, so there are a lot of vocals coming from the center. Everything sounds fine to me.

Edit: The center is 47" from the front wall, and I have two GIK Monster Bass traps across the center of the front wall immediately below my wall-mounted flat panel. Pics in the My Setup link in my sig.
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post #28763 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 04:28 PM
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It's been a while since I've looked at your room pics. I've said it before, but I love how your room is set up! Giving me some ideas on how to rearrange my room.

Which center channel stand is that?
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post #28764 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 04:28 PM
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...As you can see, there seems to be quite a bit of difference in the actual calibration file entries. But in the range 20Hz to ~5KHz, the measurements are extremely close. Only above 5KHz do the measurements start to show clearly visible differences, with a 6dB difference at 17KHz, and a 10dB difference at 20KHz. So, do the differences justify purchasing from CSL rather than directly from MiniDSP? The reader needs to make the judgement.
Thank you for this! As to whether this is a significant difference... I'm not knowledgeable enough to know. It seems that from below 5kHz, they are not significantly different. But after 10kHz? Hmm, I wonder if I can even hear >10kHz!

But what give me pause, is that these are the differences that YOU saw with YOUR UMIK-1. Would the differences between calibration files be greater or lesser with a different UMIK-1? How much different? More or less different? I don't like uncertainty. But I don't want to be unrealistic (or paranoid!), either.
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post #28765 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 04:57 PM
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It's been a while since I've looked at your room pics. I've said it before, but I love how your room is set up! Giving me some ideas on how to rearrange my room.

Which center channel stand is that?
Thanks for the kind words. The stand is made by Sanus.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sanus-f...?skuId=2864482
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post #28766 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 05:02 PM
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Thank you for this! As to whether this is a significant difference... I'm not knowledgeable enough to know. It seems that from below 5kHz, they are not significantly different. But after 10kHz? Hmm, I wonder if I can even hear >10kHz!

But what give me pause, is that these are the differences that YOU saw with YOUR UMIK-1. Would the differences between calibration files be greater or lesser with a different UMIK-1? How much different? More or less different? I don't like uncertainty. But I don't want to be unrealistic (or paranoid!), either.
I would expect my findings to be typical, but it is hard to say. One effect of the difference is when the mic is used with automated room calibration systems like Dirac Live. The high frequencies will measure lower, so the room correction algorithms will apply more boost to the upper end. Not sure this is a big deal though, because with Dirac Live, the typical user applies custom target curves to shape the response anyway.

Personally, I don’t think you can go wrong by ordering the mic directly from MiniDSP, unless you are a serious OCD type.
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post #28767 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 05:47 PM
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Jerry,

Would I be correct in assuming your CC is about 12-13" from your front wall? Just guessing that that dip at ~260Hz is SBIR. I've got one at ~200Hz on my CC that I need to try to treat, but getting a panel behind the CC is tricky with a wall mounted LED. Have you tried to fix that dip with any treatment?
The closer your speaker is to your front wall it will drive sbir freq higher. Its easier to kill higher freq with the panel behind the speaker vs lower freq. So try moving the center as close to front wall as you can with panel behind it. Panel placement is also important....it needs to be behind the drivers, not above the speaker. Also I have found that by absorbing the rear wall will help improve sbir since sound will bounce off rear wall and cancel with the sound coming from the front.
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post #28768 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 06:58 PM
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The closer your speaker is to your front wall it will drive sbir freq higher. Its easier to kill higher freq with the panel behind the speaker vs lower freq. So try moving the center as close to front wall as you can with panel behind it. Panel placement is also important....it needs to be behind the drivers, not above the speaker. Also I have found that by absorbing the rear wall will help improve sbir since sound will bounce off rear wall and cancel with the sound coming from the front.
Thank you for your suggestions.

Read this description of SBIR, courtesy of @sdurani : https://www.dropbox.com/s/eav1ukn19t...0SBIR.pdf?dl=1

My speaker is 47" from the wall. 47" x 4 = 188" = 15.7' 15.7' / 1130 = 72Hz. Thus, the SBIR frequency associated with my center channel is 72Hz, well below the 100Hz crossover of the speaker, i.e. the 300Hz dip is not SBIR.

If you take a look at the pictures of my setup, you will see that both my front and rear walls are treated.
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post #28769 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 07:15 PM
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Thank you for your suggestions.

Read this description of SBIR, courtesy of @sdurani : https://www.dropbox.com/s/eav1ukn19t...0SBIR.pdf?dl=1

My speaker is 47" from the wall. 47" x 4 = 188" = 15.7' 15.7' / 1130 = 72Hz. Thus, the SBIR frequency associated with my center channel is 72Hz, well below the 100Hz crossover of the speaker, i.e. the 300Hz dip is not SBIR.

If you take a look at the pictures of my setup, you will see that both my front and rear walls are treated.
Its hard to say where your 300hz dip is coming from and if its not sbir its definetly modal from something like 4th order room mode. But if you have sbir at 72hz then multiples of it will get you 288hz which is close to 300hz which could be the reason maybe? 300hz is still omnidirectional and it could be coming from the tv or even the wall between the monster panel and the tv? I assume you have took your monster traps and stand them up vertically behind your center to see if it improves for testing purposes? But 72hz is still hard to control, even with monster panel and that's why I recommend speakers closer to walls to drive the notch cancellation higher which the panels can easily absorb higher freq.

Also sbir can come from the floor and while you do have carpet it is only absorbing higher frequencies, have you tried panel on floor between speaker and mlp to test as well?

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120" screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M | Funk Audio subs | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson Tech MAs | Surgex XR 315 | GIK room treatment

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post #28770 of 28810 Old 02-14-2020, 07:22 PM
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It's been a while since I've looked at your room pics. I've said it before, but I love how your room is set up! Giving me some ideas on how to rearrange my room.

Which center channel stand is that?
Alan, that's a really nice Sanus stand but I don't think it will work for you, the 210C is too big and heavy to work with that one, description says supports up to 35 pounds, just saying, the MT 110 weighs that.........
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