Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 960 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28771 of 28783 Old 02-14-2020, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Alan, that's a really nice Sanus stand but I don't think it will work for you, the 210C is too big and heavy to work with that one, description says supports up to 35 pounds, just saying, the MT 110 weighs that.........
I have the same Sanus stand to hold my Klipsch center speaker which is about 36lbs. The center stand is all metal and can actually hold a lot more weight with no issues. I would not have any concerns if the speaker weighs 50lbs with that stand. The best feature of that stand is how you can adjust the speaker to angle it as high as you want.

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post #28772 of 28783 Old 02-14-2020, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
I have the same Sanus stand to hold my Klipsch center speaker which is about 36lbs. The center stand is all metal and can actually hold a lot more weight with no issues. I would not have any concerns if the speaker weighs 50lbs with that stand. The best feature of that stand is how you can adjust the speaker to angle it as high as you want.
You might be right as the 210C is Size HxWxD = 28" x 11" x 16" (includes grill)
Weight = 55lbs I was mainly looking at it for myself as I have my CC on top of an ET stand that I built with my TV behind it but my center weighs close to a 100 pounds and is 36" long by 14" deep, I was looking to not having to build a stand and looking for an easy out, thanks for the heads up.............
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post #28773 of 28783 Old 02-14-2020, 07:50 PM
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Also sbir can come from the floor and while you do have carpet it is only absorbing higher frequencies, have you tried panel on floor between speaker and mlp to test as well?
Yes.
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post #28774 of 28783 Old 02-14-2020, 08:09 PM
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The Fraunhofer Institute was researching acoustics for their new audio laboratory rooms, wondering whether carpeting was enough or whether additional absorption was needed at the first reflection points on the floor. 2" of absorption was enough to avoid the floor bounce cancellation. Measurements improved but listening tests told another story:
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3.1.4. Subjective room assessment:

Regarding the floor reflection, the audible influence by removing this with absorbers around the listener is negative – unnatural sounding. No normal room has an absorbent floor. The human brain seems to be used to this.
Indeed, the one early reflection our human hearing has always heard, even when we're not in a room (i.e., outdoors), is the floor bounce. No surprise things sound "unnatural" when it is removed.

https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/conten...ms_AES7672.pdf

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post #28775 of 28783 Old 02-14-2020, 09:06 PM
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The Fraunhofer Institute was researching acoustics for their new audio laboratory rooms, wondering whether carpeting was enough or whether additional absorption was needed at the first reflection points on the floor. 2" of absorption was enough to avoid the floor bounce cancellation. Measurements improved but listening tests told another story: Indeed, the one early reflection our human hearing has always heard, even when we're not in a room (i.e., outdoors), is the floor bounce. No surprise things sound "unnatural" when it is removed.

https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/conten...ms_AES7672.pdf
Interesting. Can’t wait to read that article. May wait until tomorrow...

Like I said earlier, I think I like that 300Hz dip.
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post #28776 of 28783 Old 02-15-2020, 06:46 AM
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Personally, I don’t think you can go wrong by ordering the mic directly from MiniDSP, unless you are a serious OCD type.

I have a strong suspicion that everyone reading this thread is an “OCD type.”



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post #28777 of 28783 Old 02-15-2020, 09:14 AM
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Interesting. Can’t wait to read that article.
Posted that snippet from the article to show that better measurements don't always translate to greater preference, like in the case of eliminating floor bounce cancellation. The rest of the article isn't that interesting.

One of Toole's last papers, 'Loudspeakers & Rooms', brought up something I'd rarely seen discussed in this hobby: adaptation. We humans have a remarkable ability to cut through environments that are sub-optimal and/or changing; that goes for our hearing as well. But that rarely comes up in a thread like this that is focused on measurements.

When floor bounce was mentioned a few posts up, I used it as an opportunity to point out why it might not be a good idea to eliminate it. Sure, the measurements would look better, but it wouldn't sound normal.
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post #28778 of 28783 Old 02-15-2020, 11:35 AM
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OK - so I read through that manual (which is long!) and generated these outputs for my left (green) and right (red) speakers. So what do I do with this - the interpretation part felt a bit thin.

Let's say I wanted to approximate a Harman target curve?

Link to mdat is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wa04denef5...8_08.mdat?dl=0

Speakers are Chane AR1X-Cs if that matters. So no surprise on the bass front anyway and the extension seems good? Probably the flat panel/leaf magnetic tweeter? Admittedly some stuff does sound shrill to me subjectively, but I want to EQ to a target curve and then modify from there.
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post #28779 of 28783 Old 02-15-2020, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Posted that snippet from the article to show that better measurements don't always translate to greater preference, like in the case of eliminating floor bounce cancellation. The rest of the article isn't that interesting.

One of Toole's last papers, 'Loudspeakers & Rooms', brought up something I'd rarely seen discussed in this hobby: adaptation. We humans have a remarkable ability to cut through environments that are sub-optimal and/or changing; that goes for our hearing as well. But that rarely comes up in a thread like this that is focused on measurements.

When floor bounce was mentioned a few posts up, I used it as an opportunity to point out why it might not be a good idea to eliminate it. Sure, the measurements would look better, but it wouldn't sound normal.
You may or may not recall, but a number of months ago, you assisted me in analyzing the dip in the center channel response. After trying a number of things, I recall we came to the conclusion that a dip like I have is not uncommon, and would not likely have much of an impact on my listening experience. So we agreed to move on to more interesting topics.

The current discussion of the center dip was started by @Alan P following my posting showing differences in UMIK-1 calibration files. I had not intended to re-open the center channel discussion, but there was no way that Alan could have known that we had already expended a considerable amount of time working on it. I have bookmarked the Toole reference in case this topic comes up again. Thanks as always for keeping things in perspective.
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post #28780 of 28783 Old 02-15-2020, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by tknx View Post
OK - so I read through that manual (which is long!) and generated these outputs for my left (green) and right (red) speakers. So what do I do with this - the interpretation part felt a bit thin.

Let's say I wanted to approximate a Harman target curve?

Link to mdat is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wa04denef5...8_08.mdat?dl=0

Speakers are Chane AR1X-Cs if that matters. So no surprise on the bass front anyway and the extension seems good? Probably the flat panel/leaf magnetic tweeter? Admittedly some stuff does sound shrill to me subjectively, but I want to EQ to a target curve and then modify from there.
Things above 200Hz look reasonably good, below 200Hz, not so good. So you are not using subwoofers? A "Harman curve" typically has low frequency boost, and a gentle tapering of in the high end. What tools do you have to implement these changes? Are you running automated room correction? Do you have a device that can add PEQ? Expecting to implement the Harman curve with small bookshelf speakers may be asking too much.
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post #28781 of 28783 Old 02-15-2020, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Things above 200Hz look reasonably good, below 200Hz, not so good. So you are not using subwoofers? A "Harman curve" typically has low frequency boost, and a gentle tapering of in the high end. What tools do you have to implement these changes? Are you running automated room correction? Do you have a device that can add PEQ? Expecting to implement the Harman curve with small bookshelf speakers may be asking too much.
Thanks - my setup is these are bedroom speakers that are driven remotely from an LMS install in my basement. I had to use Airplay to even do this measurement. So no sub, and no EQ currently.

My plan is to install BruteFirDRC (currently problems getting it working) and then apply correction there. I assume a slight roll off on treble would be appropriate, a little bit of boost in the bass and I'll just leave it be otherwise.

I basically want to EQ my whole house audio system by zone, which is going to involve a lot of compromise.
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post #28782 of 28783 Old Yesterday, 06:35 AM
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I recommend buying the 2x4 directly from MiniDSP. The balanced and unbalanced versions perform identically. And as to whether to use one or two sub outputs, I recommend that you read and follow the 2x4 implementation guide linked in my sig.
Small update

I have measured the subs separately(left and right seperately) by placing the mic close to the cone (near field).
My subs are down firing so i have removed the bottom cover while measuring the subs individually.
I have used 0 deg mic pos calibration during measurements.

I have attached some pictures how i measured and the mdat files for both sub measurements in
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8918q3l42...qaH5cxhMa?dl=0

Could you provide some feed back by looking in to the plots , if the subs have roll off or anything else with the frequency response of the room itself?

BR
JIJI N K
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post #28783 of 28783 Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
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I have a strong suspicion that everyone reading this thread is an “OCD type.”
Hahaha! Very good point!
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