Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 983 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29461 of 29520 Old 06-29-2020, 12:25 PM
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I will say, having a touch screen makes working with REW a lot faster. They tend to reserve that for the higher models, but sometimes you can find a good deal on one. They also tend to call them "2-in-1" designs or something like that because the idea is that you fold the screen back and use it like a tablet (I don't). I have a Toshiba Satellite with a Core i5 and a 1080p IPS touchscreen LCD that I got refurbished and saved quite a bit.
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post #29462 of 29520 Old 06-29-2020, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post
I recently got some new subwoofers and have been playhing around with REW. Unfortunately the only portable windows device I have is a Microsoft Surface GO windows tablet...which uses a USB-C to HDMI adapter.

I have only been able to get 2ch out of it. I presume it just cannot do it cause its just a tablet or some limitation of USB-C to HDMI. Other than that it has worked great running REW and the MiniDSP plugin...but just stereo...so ive had to unlug mains,etc or play with crossovers to limit measurements to just sub or just mains. Work like to be able to pick the channel...i,e center.

Anyhow, I really do not want lug my full tower PC into the HT so am thinking of getting something cheap...either laptop or perhaps some sorta fanless mini-pc. There have been other times I have wanted a "pc' in the HT so this might be good. Looking for suggestions that are 1) CHEAP (im not gonna do anything but REW and perhaps web browsing) 2) compatible with REW(ASIO4All) w/HDMI multi-channel out.

Thanks,
Last year I bought a Lenovo 81MQ000JUS and it works flawlessly with REW via HDMI. A bit on the slow side for other tasks, but definitely bearable. Can't beat the price. Cheapest at B&H, but out of stock at the moment.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._computer.html

In stock at Walmart and Amazon.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lenovo-81...-1yr/163690083
https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-81MQ00.../dp/B07Q11TCP9
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post #29463 of 29520 Old 06-29-2020, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Last year I bought a Lenovo 81MQ000JUS and it works flawlessly with REW via HDMI. A bit on the slow side for other tasks, but definitely bearable. Can't beat the price. Cheapest at B&H, but out of stock at the moment.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._computer.html

In stock at Walmart and Amazon.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lenovo-81...-1yr/163690083
https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-81MQ00.../dp/B07Q11TCP9
Thanks....that is along the lines of what I was considering..."cheap"

Wonder if something like this

https://www.amazon.com/ACEPC-Graphic...G6EHW2BTVCGAXQ

or this:

https://www.amazon.com/Celeron-Proce...RPBWFT10GHNG4R

would work.
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post #29464 of 29520 Old 06-29-2020, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Last year I bought a Lenovo 81MQ000JUS and it works flawlessly with REW via HDMI. A bit on the slow side for other tasks, but definitely bearable. Can't beat the price. Cheapest at B&H, but out of stock at the moment.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._computer.html

In stock at Walmart and Amazon.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lenovo-81...-1yr/163690083
https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-81MQ00.../dp/B07Q11TCP9
Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post
Thanks....that is along the lines of what I was considering..."cheap"

Wonder if something like this

https://www.amazon.com/ACEPC-Graphic...G6EHW2BTVCGAXQ

or this:

https://www.amazon.com/Celeron-Proce...RPBWFT10GHNG4R

would work.
Thanks for these posts as I've been looking for something cheap and portable to use with REW as well. I have been setting up the program with a desktop PC and a 20' USB cable but I'm not sure that's really the best way to go.
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post #29465 of 29520 Old 06-29-2020, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Thanks for these posts as I've been looking for something cheap and portable to use with REW as well. I have been setting up the program with a desktop PC and a 20' USB cable but I'm not sure that's really the best way to go.
I thought about that....but I would need oh...100ft usb and hdmi cable =P

$200-$300 dollars I can work with....those MiniPC would be more convenient...placement wise but not sure if they would work....laptop would be more portable.
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post #29466 of 29520 Old 06-29-2020, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post
I recently got some new subwoofers and have been playhing around with REW. Unfortunately the only portable windows device I have is a Microsoft Surface GO windows tablet...which uses a USB-C to HDMI adapter.

I have only been able to get 2ch out of it. I presume it just cannot do it cause its just a tablet or some limitation of USB-C to HDMI. Other than that it has worked great running REW and the MiniDSP plugin...but just stereo...so ive had to unlug mains,etc or play with crossovers to limit measurements to just sub or just mains. Work like to be able to pick the channel...i,e center.

Anyhow, I really do not want lug my full tower PC into the HT so am thinking of getting something cheap...either laptop or perhaps some sorta fanless mini-pc. There have been other times I have wanted a "pc' in the HT so this might be good. Looking for suggestions that are 1) CHEAP (im not gonna do anything but REW and perhaps web browsing) 2) compatible with REW(ASIO4All) w/HDMI multi-channel out.

Thanks,
I recently got a Surface Go too and was able to get REW "working" for full 7.1 audio and video. I bought on of these hubs https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
so i could hook up normal usb and HDMI to the Surface Go. Couldn't get the video to work at first but then used a different HDMI input on my avr (front one that worked fine with my win7 netbook wouldn't work with the Surface Go). Having some other issues with REW on it ( not measuring loud enough it seems now that i've upgraded to most recent beta from 5.19 i was using prior).
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post #29467 of 29520 Old 06-29-2020, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khcoach View Post
I recently got a Surface Go too and was able to get REW "working" for full 7.1 audio and video. I bought on of these hubs https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
so i could hook up normal usb and HDMI to the Surface Go. Couldn't get the video to work at first but then used a different HDMI input on my avr (front one that worked fine with my win7 netbook wouldn't work with the Surface Go). Having some other issues with REW on it ( not measuring loud enough it seems now that i've upgraded to most recent beta from 5.19 i was using prior).
Maybe my hub/adapter is the problem.. But on my Surface Go I cant even get the windows sound settings to do anything but stereo....let alone REW or ASIO. Thou I am using the front HDMI port on my AVR. But now that I think about it, I have had a PC hooked to that port and it had no problem doing multi-channel so I am pretty sure its not the input.
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post #29468 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post
Maybe my hub/adapter is the problem.. But on my Surface Go I cant even get the windows sound settings to do anything but stereo....let alone REW or ASIO. Thou I am using the front HDMI port on my AVR. But now that I think about it, I have had a PC hooked to that port and it had no problem doing multi-channel so I am pretty sure its not the input.
What AVR do you have? With my Denon, and from reports by some Marantz owners, the front AUX port is often erratic. Mine often acts like the HDMI cable is bad, or just fails completely. Symptoms are identical to what you posted. Just for giggles try any of the REAR HDMI ports before you invest in another PC.

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post #29469 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisda1 View Post
What AVR do you have? With my Denon, and from reports by some Marantz owners, the front AUX port is often erratic. Mine often acts like the HDMI cable is bad, or just fails completely. Symptoms are identical to what you posted. Just for giggles try any of the REAR HDMI ports before you invest in another PC.
Denon x4400H.

I will definitely give it a try tonight.
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post #29470 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisda1 View Post
What AVR do you have? With my Denon, and from reports by some Marantz owners, the front AUX port is often erratic. Mine often acts like the HDMI cable is bad, or just fails completely. Symptoms are identical to what you posted. Just for giggles try any of the REAR HDMI ports before you invest in another PC.
I agree. I had issues early on with the front HDMI port on my Marantz 8802a. Since I switched to a rear port, there have never been any issues.

And @RafaelSmith , before you buy a super cheap or refurbished laptop, consider other uses you might have for a laptop down the road. Spending a little more money and getting better quality may avoid regrets in the future.
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post #29471 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khcoach View Post
I recently got a Surface Go too and was able to get REW "working" for full 7.1 audio and video. I bought on of these hubs https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
so i could hook up normal usb and HDMI to the Surface Go. Couldn't get the video to work at first but then used a different HDMI input on my avr (front one that worked fine with my win7 netbook wouldn't work with the Surface Go). Having some other issues with REW on it ( not measuring loud enough it seems now that i've upgraded to most recent beta from 5.19 i was using prior).
Is your Surface Go 1st or 2nd gen model?
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post #29472 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post
Is your Surface Go 1st or 2nd gen model?
whatever the 1824 model is. It only has 4GB ram and 64GB SSD drive. It was "free" (work 20 year anniversary gift) so I'm not complaining on the price. I think it's gen 2, but it's not the S2 version which has a bigger 10.5" screen. I actually haven't played around with it much other that running all the windows 10 updates and trying to get REW to work that one afternoon. I need to pick up a keyboard for it then i'll be able to utilize it better for stuff (hate the onscreen keyboard in my so far limited use).

And as others have said, try a port on the back. I couldn't get it to connect right on my front port on my marantz nr1607 but worked (sound and video) once connected to a back port. The front port had no issues in the past though with my netbook that's running win7 so the whole front port issues seem to all be with people using windows 10 (from what I've seen on here)
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post #29473 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by khcoach View Post
whatever the 1824 model is. It only has 4GB ram and 64GB SSD drive. It was "free" (work 20 year anniversary gift) so I'm not complaining on the price. I think it's gen 2, but it's not the S2 version which has a bigger 10.5" screen. I actually haven't played around with it much other that running all the windows 10 updates and trying to get REW to work that one afternoon. I need to pick up a keyboard for it then i'll be able to utilize it better for stuff (hate the onscreen keyboard in my so far limited use).

And as others have said, try a port on the back. I couldn't get it to connect right on my front port on my marantz nr1607 but worked (sound and video) once connected to a back port. The front port had no issues in the past though with my netbook that's running win7 so the whole front port issues seem to all be with people using windows 10 (from what I've seen on here)
Yeah 1824 is gen 2. That could be it. Maybe Gen 2 supports multi-channel while Gen 1 does not.

I mean ..before I even tried to hook it up to a AVR...I could never get anything but Stereo within the Windows Sound Settings.

Do you recall if you have 5.1/7.1 in the windows sound settings?

Code:
Click the Playback tab
Click on your Speakers
Click Properties

Click on Spatial sound tab

Check in the list box and choose 'Window Sonic'
Make sure 'Turn on 7.1 virtual surround sound' is checked.

If the option is not available, your PC or audio device does not support it.
On mine the "option" is not available.


Ill give using rear HDMI port a shot...but I am doubtful...i have plugged other Win10 devices into the front port without issue. Other than being stereo only, the Surface has no issue either. Really unfortunate because using the Surface Go is ideal and very convenient for this kinda stuff.

Last edited by RafaelSmith; 06-30-2020 at 12:04 PM.
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post #29474 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post
Yeah 1824 is gen 2. That could be it. Maybe Gen 2 supports multi-channel while Gen 1 does not.

I mean ..before I even tried to hook it up to a AVR...I could never get anything but Stereo within the Windows Sound Settings.

Do you recall if you have 5.1/7.1 in the windows sound settings?

Code:
Click the Playback tab
Click on your Speakers
Click Properties

Click on Spatial sound tab

Check in the list box and choose 'Window Sonic'
Make sure 'Turn on 7.1 virtual surround sound' is checked.

If the option is not available, your PC or audio device does not support it.
On mine the "option" is not available.


Ill give using rear HDMI port a shot...but I am doubtful...i have plugged other Win10 devices into the front port without issue. Other than being stereo only, the Surface has no issue either. Really unfortunate because using the Surface Go is ideal and very convenient for this kinda stuff.
I get the full 5.1/7.1 option just like i did with my netbook. The only difference I've had since switching to the the surface go from my netbook is it seems my mic isn't getting the same volume readings as it did on the netbook. I don't know if it's a REW beta difference (netbook i used 5.19 non beta REW) or the win10 microphone setting (my settings in win10 don't match the guides settings, 80 doesn't equal the same amount as listed in the guide for win10). Haven't had a chance to play around again with it.
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post #29475 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khcoach View Post
I get the full 5.1/7.1 option just like i did with my netbook. The only difference I've had since switching to the the surface go from my netbook is it seems my mic isn't getting the same volume readings as it did on the netbook. I don't know if it's a REW beta difference (netbook i used 5.19 non beta REW) or the win10 microphone setting (my settings in win10 don't match the guides settings, 80 doesn't equal the same amount as listed in the guide for win10). Haven't had a chance to play around again with it.
Thanks...that pretty much confirms my theory. Gen1 is no go for multi-ch out.
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post #29476 of 29520 Old 06-30-2020, 02:06 PM
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Tried using rear HDMI port....NO luck.

Think thats all she wrote for using Gen1 Surface Go for Multi-CH testing.
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post #29477 of 29520 Old 07-02-2020, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khcoach View Post
I recently got a Surface Go too and was able to get REW "working" for full 7.1 audio and video. I bought on of these hubs https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
so i could hook up normal usb and HDMI to the Surface Go. Couldn't get the video to work at first but then used a different HDMI input on my avr (front one that worked fine with my win7 netbook wouldn't work with the Surface Go). Having some other issues with REW on it ( not measuring loud enough it seems now that i've upgraded to most recent beta from 5.19 i was using prior).
Well...turns out I was wrong. On a whim I bought the hub you linked and it worked. Was able to get 5.1/7.1 from REW...had to use FlexASIO.

Thank you!!
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post #29478 of 29520 Old 07-02-2020, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post
Well...turns out I was wrong. On a whim I bought the hub you linked and it worked. Was able to get 5.1/7.1 from REW...had to use FlexASIO.

Thank you!!
good to hear, I didn't need to use FlexASIO though, but I just remembered I also disabled the onboard sound card (saw someone mention that); I think before i ran REW for the first time just as a precaution and ASIO4all worked fine right off the bat. I did have issues getting it to work on the netbook at first, took like several reboots and stuff to work on the netbook, but the Surface Go had everything work fine once I was sure the HDMI cable worked in windows correctly after plugging into a back HDMI port instead of the front port. Also make sure you close out of the "Sound setup" option in windows itself before running REW, sometimes ASIO4all doesn't get released so REW can't see/use it.
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post #29479 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 07:15 AM
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Was hoping for some advice with subwoofer placement and sealed vs ported. I current have a single Mini Marty and the REW file below measures this subwoofer at the front centre(ish) of the room and back right corner (My only 2 real options for sub placement):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ypv...ew?usp=sharing

It seems to me the two positions compliment each other so I would benefit from dual subs, what do you think? I don't get anywhere near the max SPL for the single Mini Marty, would dual sealed subs likely be better than dual Martys?
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post #29480 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 08:00 AM
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IIRC there is a way to simulate the response of two subs by measuring with one sub in each location.
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post #29481 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 08:17 AM
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IIRC there is a way to simulate the response of two subs by measuring with one sub in each location.
Use trace arithmetic to add the two measurements together.
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post #29482 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post
Was hoping for some advice with subwoofer placement and sealed vs ported. I current have a single Mini Marty and the REW file below measures this subwoofer at the front centre(ish) of the room and back right corner (My only 2 real options for sub placement):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ypv...ew?usp=sharing

It seems to me the two positions compliment each other so I would benefit from dual subs, what do you think? I don't get anywhere near the max SPL for the single Mini Marty, would dual sealed subs likely be better than dual Martys?
The second position is what I would use assuming MLP = Main Listening position. If your gear includes EQ you might look at the spots post EQ.

Dual subs will make it possible to provide a more even bass FR across your three positions. You would also get more gain, though if that is your goal, the most gain would come from subs being physically together.

Everything I've read suggests it easier to work with subs that are the same (assumes EQ in the setup). If you do go dual you can get additional control with a device that lets you adjust timing (delay sound coming from closer sub). REW has an alignment tool on the "All SPL" tab. It will show FR outcomes for different settings (caveat the measurements have to be accurate (i.e. repeatable)).

Between ported and sealed subs, there are other forums that provide more info. You need to determine your wants (in terms of bass experience) and then do what you can to select products that can fulfill them.
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post #29483 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 02:37 PM
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I was redirected from the TR and sub thread to get some help with REW. I did an initial measurement yesterday and here’s what I got.



Where do I go from here? Any advice appreciated!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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post #29484 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claybe View Post
I was redirected from the TR and sub thread to get some help with REW. I did an initial measurement yesterday and here’s what I got.

Where do I go from here? Any advice appreciated!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Hard to say since you have not labeled any of your measurements. What looks to be the sub measurement is showing a significant peak at ~50Hz, with a 25dB drop at ~80Hz. I would start with trying to figure out what is happening there. And what is that purple measurement that is at a higher level than the other ones?
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post #29485 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 03:33 PM
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Told you I'd see you here.
The little camera icon to the top left of the graph takes a screenshot.
Sub measurements should have NO smoothing. Use Variable smoothing for everything else.
Follow Jerry's guide.
But, yes, get rid of that huge peak at 50Hz.
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post #29486 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Hard to say since you have not labeled any of your measurements. What looks to be the sub measurement is showing a significant peak at ~50Hz, with a 25dB drop at ~80Hz. I would start with trying to figure out what is happening there. And what is that purple measurement that is at a higher level than the other ones?
Thanks for the input! And sorry for not labeling. I guess I will have to go back and redo it so I can figure out what speaker is which. I do know that the purple one that dips way down is the sub. The purple measurement that is higher is the center speaker that I have turned up for dialogue which I read today I need to cancel or lower back down to 0 before measuring. Yeah looks like there is something going on at 50Hz with all the speakers....first reflection point issues?
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post #29487 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Told you I'd see you here.
The little camera icon to the top left of the graph takes a screenshot.
Sub measurements should have NO smoothing. Use Variable smoothing for everything else.
Follow Jerry's guide.
But, yes, get rid of that huge peak at 50Hz.
Michael
Thanks for directing me here. I know there is a lot to learn...I am a really slow learner for this stuff btw! I will keep trying....
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post #29488 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Claybe View Post
Thanks for directing me here. I know there is a lot to learn...I am a really slow learner for this stuff btw! I will keep trying....
If you haven't don so already, have a read of the guide prepared by AustinJerry. A link to it can be found at the footer of his posts. He has responded immediately after your post with your REW results.
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post #29489 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Claybe View Post
Thanks for the input! And sorry for not labeling. I guess I will have to go back and redo it so I can figure out what speaker is which. I do know that the purple one that dips way down is the sub. The purple measurement that is higher is the center speaker that I have turned up for dialogue which I read today I need to cancel or lower back down to 0 before measuring. Yeah looks like there is something going on at 50Hz with all the speakers....first reflection point issues?
To make it easier, we only really need to see four measurements: center, right and left speakers (set to Small with a crossover so the subs are included), and the sub channel by itself. And no smoothing on the sub measurement.

The 50Hz dip is caused by the sub, and could likely be improved upon with a better placement (or additional subs).
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post #29490 of 29520 Old 07-04-2020, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Krobar View Post
Was hoping for some advice with subwoofer placement and sealed vs ported. I current have a single Mini Marty and the REW file below measures this subwoofer at the front centre(ish) of the room and back right corner (My only 2 real options for sub placement):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ypv...ew?usp=sharing

It seems to me the two positions compliment each other so I would benefit from dual subs, what do you think? I don't get anywhere near the max SPL for the single Mini Marty, would dual sealed subs likely be better than dual Martys?
Further to the responses from AustinJerry and Candor, a couple of additional thoughts.

i) When using trace arithmetic option, just adding the two results together will show the predicted response based on running the same timing (delays) for both subs. As can be seen from your measurements, each location will required different amounts of delay.

I see that there are a couple of timing adjustment options within REW. Open the file you posted in REW, use the All SPL Tab and then the Controls button at the top right. In here you will see Time Align and also Align IR start. I have not read up on either of these, so I will leave that to you. I did note that if you do a Trace arithmetic option (once again from the All SPL tab) to add say add Measurement 2 and Measurement 4 you will see a new A+B Measurement. If you then select just measurements 2 and 4 only and the select Time Align, and then do another Trace arithmetic for 2 & 4, you will see a smoother response.

Actually, since you are only comparing two subs (sub locations) you should also be able to use the alignment tool to play with delays for the two selected subs, to see what gives good results.

ii) As to the way forward, the first thing I suggest you do is figure out what you are trying to achieve, i.e do you want a) max output, even if it is only a peak at one spot (put two subs at the same location); b) a reasonably good response across most of the range, but not too concerned about the lowest frequencies, or c) as flat as possible, rather than higher output.

In my experience, sealed subs go lower, but at the expense of a higher output . Have a look at the output charts for the likes of the SVS PB4000 (https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-4000#techanchor). In may case, I am not too fussed about max SPL, so I run all sealed subs, as making my couch kickers was easier in a sealed config.

However, given you have already built a mini-marty and seem to be chasing output, it may be worth spending some time learning how to use REW a bit more and then simulate what may be achieved. As noted by candor, you will get best results, when you can load delays and PEQs. Depending on the sub amps you use, this may be able to done via the amps, or you can use the likes of a MiniDSP 2x4. If you then want to get really adventurous, you could also explore the MultiSub Optimizer (MSO) software, to get an even more finessed result.

For what is is worth, I use a MiniDSP 2x4HD and the results from MSO, to blend my 4 subs, 2 x sealed couch kickers and 2 x SVS PC 13 Ultra in sealed mode.

I trust this makes some sense.

Have fun
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