Originally Posted by mjmcmahon67
Not by any stretch of the imagination. You know as well as I do, however, that the uber-cables are marketed as making a noticeable difference in the quality of the sound they produce.
We are not talking about uber expensive cables, nor the "quality" of the sound produced. This thread is about a person complaining bitterly about quality of the Monoprice cable he received, vs a spool of RadioShack wire. The RadioShack wire cost something like $40 vs $25. I don't call that uber expensive. My testing shows that his subjective observations were right on the money. The RadioShack cable was superior both subjectively (how it felt/looked) and meeting its stated spec of being 12 gauge.
If that's true, there should be a measurable change in the FR in REW. Audioholics did an in-depth comparison on the electrical properties of many of those cables (at least those where the vendor would provide them for testing), but stopped short of performing a FR test.
As I said and you are agreeing, Ohm's law doesn't stop working when we use a speaker vs a meter to measure the impact of the wire resistance/impedance over the frequency response of the speaker. The data you ask for is readily there in the form of often referenced article by Roger Russell: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
Response in the above set of curves is for the same small 2-way 4-ohm speaker. The microphone position is only a few inches from the system but that is not important for this example. Here, we are interested in response differences for different series resistance for the same microphone position and not for speaker response at different microphone positions.
Now, he used a resistor in series with the speaker to make these measurements but that is no different than equiv. length of wire.
While I'd be extremely surprised if the cables showed ANY difference in the REW response curves, until that testing has been done there will be those who insist that they hear a difference from the $100/ft 12ga wire over the product that is produced by Monoprice or Belkin. In fact, if there was a measurable difference in FR for a 50ft run of Monoprice over a 50ft run of Belkin, it would greatly strengthen your statement that they're sub-standard and not worthy of the recommendation.
Again, this is not a conversation about $100/ft cables. I didn't measure them and no one advocated them. We did however compare Belden to Monoprice.
50 foot of speaker cable represents 100 foot run when you consider the full loop. At 100 feet, the Monoprice cable will impose a 0.2 ohm resistance on the load. If the speaker has a dip in its impedance of 2 ohms, you just added 10% more resistance to that portion of the frequency response. The impact, and this is important, will be much lower for the rest of the speaker response that has higher impedance. So in essence, you have inserted an equalizer into the circuit. Here is a random example of such a speaker:
So around 100 hertz will you get a dip in the measured output of the speaker by 10%. Compare that to 1 Khz and higher where this impact will be negligible.
The Belden cable in contrast presents half the load so its impact would be 5%.
Our detection of such frequency response variations (for broad resonances, see my article http://www.**************.com/Librar...stortions.html
) is about 0.5 db. By my math, with the Monoprice cable you will have a 0.8 db drop vs 0.4 for the Belden.
In my experience, the recommendations for Monoprice's cable have never been that they're perfect, or even that they are truly 12ga cable. From what I've seen, the recommendation has been based upon the fact that there's no audible difference between the cabling provided by Monoprice versus other vendors whose cabling is more expensive.
I can't speak for your observation of course since I don't know what posts you have seen on the forum. This thread was created by someone who read exactly that: that these monoprice cables are absolutely the same as any other and I agree with him. We have people who are walking billboards for Monoprice with no qualifications whatsoever:
None of these recommendations were backed by any measurements. People read the advertised spec and believed. We now, for the first time, have data that says these recommendations should have had the caveats you mention. But did not and people still go and buy junk cable that saves them less money than the cost of one blu-ray disc. Penny wise and pound foolish is what we have here.
I don't know why this message is so hard to accept. Is there some stake we have in recommending Monoprice specifically? I am supposed to go and run REW tests now just to convince people to spend a bit more money and get quality cable to run behind their walls?
Mind you, if I have a non-critical application monoprice or other bargain basement stuff is OK. But for other things, when you can make a short trip to a local store and get better stuff, we should do that. We should advocate quality and take the side of consumer, not retailers. At least that is my stance