Atmos. Fad or future? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 168 Old 01-22-2015, 10:12 PM
 
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You can still do it with a 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos setup. ...Five hundred bucks for the receiver, fifty bucks for the new two overhead ceiling speakers.
...On sale; $499 everything included (with 100 feet of speaker wires and two speaker brackets).
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post #92 of 168 Old 01-22-2015, 10:18 PM
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Oh I was addressing having a SSP that could do 32 channels, and then reasonable speakers to be driven by it lol. Something like a Trinnov and then 32+ speakers and subs, you're looking at about 100K+ haha

Not including all the room treatments, and the video side of things. For all that I think $250,000 would be a good idea of how much you would need at minimum. That's going to be approaching a small commercial theater experience right there lol.

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post #93 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 01:54 AM
 
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I just adopt a more realistic approach, I think, for the people participating in this thread right here. ...Kind of a more down-to-earth attitude financially speaking.
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post #94 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Through HDMI, Dolby Atmos is sent to your receiver from your BD player, as uncompressed discrete Multichannel PCM audio,
when set in your BD player as is from its HDMI Audio Out => PCM.

* Lossless hi-res Dolby TrueHD, lossless hi-res DTS-HD MA, uncompressed hi-res Multichannel PCM audio, Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D, DTS:X, ...they are all capable of carrying several discrete audio channels (much more than just eight), over the HDMI interface.

So, what is the recommended setting for Atmos content in the typical Bluray player, PCM or bit stream?

Will you get the same multi channel reproduction with either setting?

Will standard DD / DTS work with multi channel with the same settings?
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post #95 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
How about installation costs for wiring for ceiling speakers, moving "high" surround speakers down to a "lower" placement and damage to real estate by doing the retrofit? The cost of the new speakers is not really an issue!
I think there are two groups of enthusiast. Those who are DIY'ers and so the work is not a consideration and the Gold spooners so the costs is no consideration. Between the two groups I think there is enough interest to make it a success. I'm in the DIY'er group and can't wait to add four speakers to my ceiling. My room is 27' by 30' so I have plenty of room. On the down or questionable side I have a cathedral ceiling so I'm not sure if I'll have to suspend my ceiling speakers or angle them or????

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Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post
There seems to be varying opinions on this. I like some responses. My attitude is "Because more speakers"! I don't see cost being that much of a issue here. You don't need Focal Grande Utopias bolted to the ceiling. (cool!) But just something that can reproduce sound. These are just for effects. Not music or dialog. I think I'm going to give it a shot as I need to replace my AVR soon anyway. And more speakers!
Yep my Yamaha 7.1 was the last year without HDMI. Time to change. Looking at the ATMOS Ready Onkyo TX-NR636. Less than $500.00.

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Originally Posted by Sparkygod1 View Post
...I think Atmos or 3D audio is here to stay but I don't see it being main stream like 5.1...Spouse acceptance factor. "You already have five little boxes on the wall and this big black box in the corner and you want to cut four more holes in my ceiling?" Can't you just hear it, fellas? Atmos -dedicated room, family room - not so much.
Soooo you don't think she'll buy the symetrically patterned, Honey we had a water leak and I fixed it with these old speakers I had laying around!

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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post

Most people I know are moving away from having big sound systems like most of us here have. I know more and more people who watch everything on their tablet. That really makes me wonder if 3D sound formats can have a future, considering they are going in the opposite direction of what is currently popular.
In any society there will always be those mentally disturbed people who do things strangly. Big sound rules. I don't need no stinking DRUGS I got BIG SOUND to escape reality!!!

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...But the filmmakers made an effort and it is meant to be experienced.
Just my .02
AMEN

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Originally Posted by Sparkygod1 View Post
Fad or future..would this be ay different than any stereo audiophile with the best two channel they could afford only to have your kid walk by you with a set of high dollar ear-buds and look at you as if you're from the stone age. For people like me, who enjoy movies and being part of the experience..future.
Yep what he said!
Maybe the kid had on quadrophonic headphones. Anyone remember them.

Darkman AKA Charles in Pensacola FL
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post #96 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm with you for the most part Darkman270. I'm a "go big" type. More watts. Bigger drivers. I have a friend that has a "medium" sized room and has a 5.1 system with Energy CB-5s as the fronts and backs. It's OK but not my idea of how I would do it. My old system has Infinity SL50s as the L/R and RR/LR. They are 40+ inch tall towers with (3)(2 passive) 8 inch drivers and play down to 40 Hz but still crossed at 80 Hz. The replacements will be similar except the overhead ones.
As far as your room goes, you need to go big! As far as your "Atmos" speakers, you could suspend them or mound directly to the ceiling. Spacing might be a issue however. I'm sure you could figure it out.

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post #97 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Back more on topic, How do you guys feel the "trickle down" effect will effect this format? Do you see $300 AVRs with ATMOS coming or will it stay mid to high?

Sounds good!

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post #98 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 11:57 AM
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Definitely. They just won't be loaded to the teeth with high end features or >7ch amps.

The minimum for Atmos right now is 5.1.2 speakers. That fit's right with 7ch amps.
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post #99 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post
Back more on topic, How do you guys feel the "trickle down" effect will effect this format? Do you see $300 AVRs with ATMOS coming or will it stay mid to high?
I mentioned this in an earlier post, Onkyo already offers Atmos in an MSRP receiver at $499. I know that the KC meet Archaea's friend purchased this unit for around $400 at Nebraska Furn. Mart in KC.

With this is just the first round of Atmos receivers, one could assume they will show up in entry level receivers like Onkyo's 636.

Last edited by rboster; 01-23-2015 at 01:25 PM. Reason: clarification
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post #100 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 12:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
1. So, what is the recommended setting for Atmos content in the typical Bluray player, PCM or bit stream?

2. Will you get the same multi channel reproduction with either setting?

3. Will standard DD / DTS work with multi channel with the same settings?
1. Bitstream. ...HDMI Audio Out. ...Then your Dolby Atmos receiver will decode the 3D Dolby Atmos audio soundtrack.

2. If you select PCM your BD player will decode the lossless Dolby TrueHD audio soundtrack, and send it to your receiver as uncompressed multichannel PCM. Then your Dolby Atmos receiver will play it as multichannel PCM; just use the DSU listening mode.

3. Yes.
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post #101 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post
Back more on topic, How do you guys feel the "trickle down" effect will effect this format? Do you see $300 AVRs with ATMOS coming or will it stay mid to high?
Yes, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X will come inside $300+/- AV receivers, no doubt about it (I'd say in about two-three years or so). ...5.1.2 AV receivers.
List: $399 ...street: $299
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post #102 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 02:32 PM
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Time for my pointy headed little opinion

The general public is very skeptical about any formats thanks to Beta VS VHS VS 8mm, Mini-Disc VS DCC and Blu-Ray VS HD-DVD. Who can blame them? It is fine for the bleeding edge to be the Beta testers of the world, but when it comes to ripping holes in your ceiling, stringing wires everywhere and blowing huge wads of cash--it causes the normal person to pause.

At least with a format war it is just the box--now we are talking construction and room modification. The Auro 3D would be the most room friendly as you don't have to put speakers on the ceiling--the wall/ceiling juncture works great!

For now, I'm staying with 1080P, Blu-Ray and 5.1 and will freely allow others to figure it out. Give it three years to find out the winners/losers and go from there. If I get the itch to upgrade, that is why the subwoofer was invented...
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post #103 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 05:13 PM
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i think object based sound will be here to stay but mainly for more hardcore enthusiasts

the majority will just enjoy the 5.1 audio mix on the same bluray
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post #104 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 06:23 PM
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At least you're not typing.
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post #105 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
Time for my pointy headed little opinion

The general public is very skeptical about any formats thanks to Beta VS VHS VS 8mm, Mini-Disc VS DCC and Blu-Ray VS HD-DVD. Who can blame them? It is fine for the bleeding edge to be the Beta testers of the world, but when it comes to ripping holes in your ceiling, stringing wires everywhere and blowing huge wads of cash--it causes the normal person to pause.

At least with a format war it is just the box--now we are talking construction and room modification. The Auro 3D would be the most room friendly as you don't have to put speakers on the ceiling--the wall/ceiling juncture works great!

For now, I'm staying with 1080P, Blu-Ray and 5.1 and will freely allow others to figure it out. Give it three years to find out the winners/losers and go from there. If I get the itch to upgrade, that is why the subwoofer was invented...
LOL, I have a Toshiba HD DVD player.
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post #106 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 06:47 PM
 
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At least you're not typing.
I really like Scott's great sense of good humor. ...He often get just the right emotional expression from his short animated video clips.
You cannot take that away from him. ...A simple picture, or emoticon is sometimes all you need to reply well, and to the point.

* Atmos is a sure thing; slow for sure but a solid picture towards our future. ...Me sincerely thinks, just like 4K is coming more and more, on Blu-ray too, 3D sound is a good marriage to 3D moving pictures.

You get on with the program, or you stay behind around your TV speakers. Only the true "cinemaphiles" understand the true meaning of life's high caliber entertainment. [email protected] home and abroad.
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post #107 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 06:54 PM
 
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And the beauty of it? You can do it for less than a thou, even for less than half of that (very soon), and you can do it for over hundred grands and more.
It's for everyone; from the most frugal to the most calibrated.
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post #108 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I really like Scott's great sense of good humor. ...He often get just the right emotional expression from his short animated video clips.
You cannot take that away from him. ...A simple picture, or emoticon is sometimes all you need to reply well, and to the point.

* Atmos is a sure thing; slow for sure but a solid picture towards our future. ...Me sincerely thinks, just like 4K is coming more and more, on Blu-ray too, 3D sound is a good marriage to 3D moving pictures.

You get on with the program, or you stay behind around your TV speakers. Only the true "cinemaphiles" understand the true meaning of life's high caliber entertainment. [email protected] home and abroad.
It's pretty much universal on here that any time someone mentions true cinemaphile or true audiophile that they're just lost the argument. It's sort of like a Hitler comparison.

3D sound is a good marriage to slow death of 3d video? You sure you know what you're talking about there. Go dig up some data on 3d. Have a look at the massive selection on netflix.
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post #109 of 168 Old 01-23-2015, 07:53 PM
 
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It is more like an Alfred Einstein think I thing.

* You want real 3D; IMAX theaters, or Blu-ray 3D @ home (Disney/PIXAR).

Last edited by NorthSky; 01-23-2015 at 07:59 PM. Reason: apple
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post #110 of 168 Old 01-24-2015, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
1. Bitstream. ...HDMI Audio Out. ...Then your Dolby Atmos receiver will decode the 3D Dolby Atmos audio soundtrack.

2. If you select PCM your BD player will decode the lossless Dolby TrueHD audio soundtrack, and send it to your receiver as uncompressed multichannel PCM. Then your Dolby Atmos receiver will play it as multichannel PCM; just use the DSU listening mode.

3. Yes.


That's what I thought. PCM does not allow you to properly decode the Atmos sound track, so why would you set your player to PCM if you own an Atmos disk and an Atmos sound system?
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post #111 of 168 Old 01-24-2015, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
It's pretty much universal on here that any time someone mentions true cinemaphile or true audiophile that they're just lost the argument. It's sort of like a Hitler comparison.

3D sound is a good marriage to slow death of 3d video? You sure you know what you're talking about there. Go dig up some data on 3d. Have a look at the massive selection on netflix.

Funny thing about 3D video. I own a 3D TV and BLuray player, yet I have never watched a single 3D movie on my system.
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post #112 of 168 Old 01-24-2015, 12:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
That's what I thought. PCM does not allow you to properly decode the Atmos sound track, so why would you set your player to PCM if you own an Atmos disk and an Atmos sound system?
Sony PS3.
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post #113 of 168 Old 01-24-2015, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
Funny thing about 3D video. I own a 3D TV and BLuray player, yet I have never watched a single 3D movie on my system.
Not sure if I should laugh or cry!

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post #114 of 168 Old 01-24-2015, 11:29 AM
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I am getting to the point where I need to replace my 5 channel receiver

So I look at the HDMI board issues, all sorts of "ready" type electronics and 3D and 4K stuff not fully cooked yet. Most likely I'll build a HTPC and go with outboard amplifiers. Get very efficient DIY Sound Group speakers and run chip amps for the surround channels. Now to find a 4 channel studio amplifier to run LCR for 3 channels--the empty channel will just give me more power supply for the remaining 3 channels.

That way I can swap out a sound card and add more chip amps if/when the height channel format is figured out.
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post #115 of 168 Old 01-24-2015, 01:14 PM
 
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Fad until you see Atmos and DSU in every AVR.

I will take it for free, but I will not pay up for it (higher end AVR) since I will not install ceiling speakers in any of my rooms.
2015 is the year; there is no excape. ...And then we'll also have not only Dolby Atmos (& DSU) in most all AV receivers but also dts:x

And I'm not talking just about Denon/Marantz, Onkyo/Integra, Pioneer and Yamaha, but also about Anthem, Krell, McIntosh, NAD, and all the gang afterwards.

* Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are just a normal progressive evolution from Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.
...High resolution (lossless) multichannel audio. ...3D surround sound. ...Both discrete and processed (up-mixed).

If you already have say a 7.1 system setup in your room, simply take those two back surrounds on your back wall and install them above your head.
...For a richer and more enveloping surround sound experience. ...All you need; 5.1.2 Atmos configuration. ...You didn't buy new speakers, you just move two of them to another location. ...And you can buy a Dolby Atmos Onkyo receiver right now for five hundred dollars, and they'll go down in price and they'll add up dts:x on top of that.

The sky is no longer the limit, the sky is the new open 3D elevated world.
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post #116 of 168 Old 01-24-2015, 01:29 PM
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Atmos is here to,stay especially, if broadcast TV adopts it as a standard. My 2 cents
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post #117 of 168 Old 01-25-2015, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
2015 is the year; there is no excape. ...And then we'll also have not only Dolby Atmos (& DSU) in most all AV receivers but also dts:x

And I'm not talking just about Denon/Marantz, Onkyo/Integra, Pioneer and Yamaha, but also about Anthem, Krell, McIntosh, NAD, and all the gang afterwards.

* Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are just a normal progressive evolution from Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.
...High resolution (lossless) multichannel audio. ...3D surround sound. ...Both discrete and processed (up-mixed).

If you already have say a 7.1 system setup in your room, simply take those two back surrounds on your back wall and install them above your head.
...For a richer and more enveloping surround sound experience. ...All you need; 5.1.2 Atmos configuration. ...You didn't buy new speakers, you just move two of them to another location. ...And you can buy a Dolby Atmos Onkyo receiver right now for five hundred dollars, and they'll go down in price and they'll add up dts:x on top of that.

The sky is no longer the limit, the sky is the new open 3D elevated world.





Atmos and DTS:X are not "must have" formats. The vast majority of people will not get rid of their equipment just because there is something new on the block that has little to no content available for use in the format. If you have no interest in placing speakers on the ceiling or can not do so for whatever reason, then why update your receiver until it is necessary?


I still think it's funny that when most people start talking about all the benefits of Atmos, they always end up talking about DSU which is not an object based format. Some people also do not like the way DSU sounds when upmixing music.
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post #118 of 168 Old 01-25-2015, 08:53 AM
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*** If your only interesting in 2.1 sound why are you even looking a the home receiver forum you should have been set 25 years ago. There is nothing new for you!
Umm, DSP room correction.

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post #119 of 168 Old 01-25-2015, 03:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
Atmos and DTS:X are not "must have" formats. The vast majority of people will not get rid of their equipment just because there is something new on the block that has little to no content available for use in the format. If you have no interest in placing speakers on the ceiling or can not do so for whatever reason, then why update your receiver until it is necessary?
No need to; Atmos and DTS:X are not must have new 3D sound formats.

But when time comes to upgrade our receivers, which ones are we going to purchase, older ones from yesterday, no way, newer ones with 3D sound.
And if we don't want to install two overhead speakers we won't have to. Still, we'll have our new receivers with more features and Atmos and dts:X.
...Like last time we upgraded our older Dolby ProLogic receivers for Dolby Digital and dts ones (1988 to 1997).
...Then from them to Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA ones (1998 to 2007).
Now, from 2007 to 2016.

Just a normal evolution every ten years or so. ...And then the next revolution in 2025. ...Then 2033. ...2044. ...2055, with complete 4D sound from just four speakers (Quad, full circle).

Quote:
I still think it's funny that when most people start talking about all the benefits of Atmos, they always end up talking about DSU which is not an object based format. Some people also do not like the way DSU sounds when upmixing music.
Yes, we all love talking about Atmos, but mostly about DSU because there are only very few Atmos BD titles, and also they are from varied taste.
I don't have Atmos yet but still I love talkin' about it. ...And I read much more on what others have to say about it (real life owners) and ask few questions too. Yes, it's all fun for us here, because without it we wouldn't talk so much.
Only for the hardcore 3D people. ...The 2D sound (and picture too) people; they usually don't hang around here. ...In the 3D sound format threads (Atmos, Auro and dts), and in the 3D Blu-ray movie threads. ...They post where their passion is; in the 2D sound and picture threads (DTS Neo:X, DPLIIx & IIz, Audyssey DSX, Yamaha DSP presence channels, ... 2D Blu-rays, Amazon video, Vudu, Netflix, Blu-ray burners, DVD, Movie Downloads, ...all in 2D).

♦ Right here in this thread we let our preferences been known; even without having experiencing the 3D dark side yet.
It don't truly matter; we're still free to express our opinion, that's what discussions are for. ...We talk, about what we like, about what we would like, about what we don't like, and about what we wouldn't like. ...Myself I think it's fun, or I wouldn't be here.
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post #120 of 168 Old 01-25-2015, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkygod1 View Post
LOL, I have a Toshiba HD DVD player.
I'll take your HD DVD and raise you with a Laser Disc player--and a Mini-Disc machine. Sorry, the Beta is looooong gone.

Hmmm...which 3D TV to purchase? Uhhhh.... I know! I'll use my money to upgrade the speakers and subwoofers until it settles out to... no 3D? That's fine, I really want an OLED TV and Samsung has it right round the corner...now they don't.

Don't worry, Atmos is the next big thing! After all, the manufacturers can't figure out how to make a receiver not cook the HDMI chip so adding more amps and channels will not be a problem!

Since I have more subwoofers to build, a bit more fine tuning--I'm holding off on Atmos for a year or two for things to settle out and become proven. I'm leaning in the direction of a HTPC so I can upgrade the sound card to Atomos/DTS/Auro 1.1 or 2.0 if/when needed.

My garage is starting to look like the land of misfit toys
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