Upgrade to Emotiva XMC-1 or get Acoustic Treatments? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Ethan Winer
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
357
Advanced Member
 
357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Upgrade to Emotiva XMC-1 or get Acoustic Treatments?

I currently have a Pioneer Elite SC-35 with Clearwave Dynamics 4Ts and 4cc as my LCR setup and Ascend Sierra-1s for surround duty. For LFE I'm running two Outlaw LFM Plus subwoofers.

My setup is the best I've ever heard, but I'm wondering if it could be better. Room is horrible for sound as it opens into the rest of the house and isn't sealed off it all. Would I hear a better improvement with the XMC-1 with Dirac Live capabilities and a XPA-5 or should I get some room treatments?
357 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 07:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
henrich3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 590 Post(s)
Liked: 515
Without measurements (frequency response, waterfalls, ETC) we can't know for sure, but room treatments would likely provide the better result. 4" fiberglass or rockwool absorbers placed at first reflection points will make your room less reverberant and should improve the clarity of the sound & dialog intelligibility.

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Handboo...ct_top?ie=UTF8
http://www.gikacoustics.com/articles/
http://www.gikacoustics.com/educational-videos/
http://realtraps.com/info.htm
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...ge-technology/
http://realtraps.com/data.htm
http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--AT...x-4--1008.html
henrich3 is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 09:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 6,162
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Liked: 406
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post
room treatments would likely provide the better result. 4" fiberglass or rockwool absorbers placed at first reflection points will make your room less reverberant and should improve the clarity of the sound & dialog intelligibility.
Plus 1 for this advice. Adding bass traps in corners where possible will help even more.

--Ethan
henrich3 likes this.
Ethan Winer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
357
Advanced Member
 
357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Well looks like I'm going for the the treatments then.
357 is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
357
Advanced Member
 
357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Ok so I just found out that my first reflection point is exactly on a window. What type of curtain will I need to get? I called myuself looking but I could not find a company that produces one. I currently have a blackout curtain but I don't believe it will do the job!
357 is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 04:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Frank D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,877
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post
Well looks like I'm going for the the treatments then.
Since you say your set up is the best you have ever heard then perhaps treatments would be best but then again maybe DIRAC would be better. Very hard to say as both can do very good things. I have added treatments and my measurements did improve (using REW to measure) and I believe my sound improved too however you can not do a "quick" comparison of room with treatments and room without. With DIRAC you can. DIRAC does more then just EQ your sound. In the end I would say go with both. Start with treatments now and then DIRAC later.

However had you had a large hump due to say room modes at perhaps 140 hz then (you would probably notice this) some kind of EQ like DIRAC or parametric EQ (both are in the XMC-1) would most likely be needed instead of treatments. I had that issue and treatments helped a bit in that area but could not solve that issue (nor did I expect treatments too). DIRAC did. DIRAC also did other things that I liked.

If you have the time perhaps you can buy the UMIK-1 measurement mic for $75 and download the free REW measurement software and measure your room to get a better idea.
Frank D is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 06:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
henrich3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 590 Post(s)
Liked: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post
Ok so I just found out that my first reflection point is exactly on a window. What type of curtain will I need to get?
Some acoustic panel companies offer stand mounts:
http://realtraps.com/p_stand.htm
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...-metal-stands/

Alternately, you could just attach hooks above the window and hang the panel like a picture. Either option would allow easy portability if you wanted to store the panel in a closet whenever you're not watching movies.
henrich3 is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 07:48 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,163
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3177 Post(s)
Liked: 3177
They do make soundproofing blinds and curtains. Google.

E.g. http://www.hunterdouglas.com/sound-a...des-and-blinds
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_86of6jjcnc_b
Etc.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is online now  
post #9 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 08:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
henrich3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 590 Post(s)
Liked: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
They do make soundproofing blinds and curtains. Google.
I didn't see any absorption coefficient data for those products, so their sound absorption claims should be taken with a large grain of salt. Heavy curtains can help to attenuate high frequencies, but how much they'll do for the mids is questionable. I wouldn't expect them to do anything for low frequencies.

Until the OP measures his room, he doesn't know what the problems are. If one doesn't understand a problem, it's impossible to do more than guess about what the best solution may be...
henrich3 is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 10-25-2015, 09:26 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,163
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3177 Post(s)
Liked: 3177
I have not used them (the ones in the links). The ones I have used are produced by companies specializing in sound treatments and their products are fully specified. The curtains I've used include a layer of insulation from 1" to 4" and do a decent job. Few absorbers (of any type) do much for very LF energy. In this case I was trying to offer something that might work for him but as you say it's only a guess. I'll leave it to you experts.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is online now  
post #11 of 19 Old 10-26-2015, 07:46 AM
 
LFEer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 818 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post
Well looks like I'm going for the the treatments then.
Good call. As my forum name suggests, I'm into LFE performance and I've installed membrane bass traps (per real traps website). I couldn't be happier with the results.
LFEer is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 10-26-2015, 11:28 AM
Senior Member
 
rvsixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Aus Texas
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post
Ok so I just found out that my first reflection point is exactly on a window. What type of curtain will I need to get?
In addition to the already mentioned panel stands, a gobo would also work. In addition to handling the reflection point, thicker material could be used at the bottom of the gobo for bass frequency absorption.
rvsixer is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 10-26-2015, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
357
Advanced Member
 
357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsixer View Post
In addition to the already mentioned panel stands, a gobo would also work. In addition to handling the reflection point, thicker material could be used at the bottom of the gobo for bass frequency absorption.
What's a gobo?
357 is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 10-26-2015, 01:21 PM
Senior Member
 
rvsixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Aus Texas
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post
What's a gobo?
http://bfy.tw/2TmB
rvsixer is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 10-26-2015, 02:59 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,701
Mentioned: 226 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3708 Post(s)
Liked: 4217
^^^ I tried the free DIRAC and I didn't like it. Too much digital hash/artifacts (IMO at least...)

I already HAD room treatments though; I was trying DIRAC out: just because...

^^^ I then added Emotiva's XSP-1 Analog Reference pre-amp and that was MUCH better than DIRAC.
Good old Class-A analog pre-amplification, in combination with Class A/B output amplifiers.

^^^ I then upgraded my speakers by going custom DIY. That made the bass go MUCH deeper, and because of the higher-efficiency drivers MUCH louder too (at least 10db.)
Left, Right and Center are all flat to 4hz -3db, and that is WITHOUT dedicated-subwoofers with optimal-placement.


^^^ Just the other month I recently implemented fully-active triple 3-way for the fronts, removing the passive crossovers. And once again, another level of SQ was reached.

^^^ I then decided to beef up the bracing and wood thickness. and once again another slight increase in SQ. But not nearly as noticeable and the other upgrades!

The sound was damn-good before, but now the sound is like: retardedly-good...

I too have never heard a system that could beat mine. But I'm sure they are out there, somewhere...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	22.jpg
Views:	257
Size:	59.6 KB
ID:	1020137  

Last edited by BassThatHz; 10-26-2015 at 04:23 PM.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 10-29-2015, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
357
Advanced Member
 
357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Just heard back from GIK. They gave me a good starting point. Probably will order with them later on this month. $1000 worth a panels in cart so far.
357 is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 12-07-2015, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
357
Advanced Member
 
357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Well these just came in. Don't have them setup permenatly yet, but it seems like they just sucked all the bass out of the room. I could hear it more without them up. Is that normal? For reference, I got Gik Room Kit #1 and my sub is the Dayton Ultimax 18 in the sealed cabinet powered by a Crown XLS 1500 in bridged mode.

I need to rerun MCAAC though so maybe that's why. I also have a calibrated Cross Spectrums Umik-1 mic coming later this week so hopefully that can tell me what's wrong.
357 is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 12-07-2015, 07:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
toofast68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,670
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 486 Post(s)
Liked: 131
For sure you will need to rerun your AVR's calibration

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
toofast68 is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 12-19-2015, 07:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Player3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 81
I bought roughly $800 of acoustic panels from ATS acoustics for my little 1450c.f. room. Made a HUGE difference, as my room was mostly reflective, and since it was so small the speakers were closer to the walls.
What I liked about ATS was how thick the panels were, I got the 24x24" 4 inch ones.

However, I bought a miniDSP nanoAVR DL, and that made just as much of difference to me. Plus, it was great being able to customize the response.
I now am in a much larger room, with my same panels and an XMC-1. Honestly, I'd say they're both necessary.. It's funny, I have the Ascend Sierra Towers with RAAL, XMC-1, XPR-5, but I don't think they sound all that great unless Dirac. (Unless you sit right in front of them) The room seriously impacts the speakers. Not only that, it's so finnicky. Just about anything changes the response, so having something that dials it in at your MLP, is priceless IMO.

That reminds me, I need to save for more acoustic treatments..
Player3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off