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post #151 of 179 Old 04-12-2020, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Thomas Wu View Post
niterida, is it possible for you to point me the right direction in terms of downloading that SPL app you talked about please? I have an iPad or I can use my android phone, either or will work for me. Thanks!!
I use Sound Analyzer App from my android phone.

On the SLM page select Parameters then select LCS first and then deselect whatever else is selected already.

Hold the phone where your ears would be and measure away. Make sure the room is entirely quiet though.
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post #152 of 179 Old 04-13-2020, 05:58 AM
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You can use something like this:

amazon [dot] com/Iot-Relay-Enclosed-High-Power-Raspberry/dp/B00WV7GMA2

It's what I use to have my pre-amp turn on my power amp.

Thanks! This actually has much better ratings than some of the other solutions I found on Amazon after doing some searching in the forums. I will definitely go this route if I decide to install the second AVR.
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post #153 of 179 Old 04-13-2020, 06:04 AM
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Hard to say if there would be a benefit but I doubt it - the Denon is rated at 135w per channel and the Yamaha at 105w (both at 6ohm/1khz/0.7%THD). Now 30w extra would be almost inaudible at full volume (will give roughly an extra 1db and most people can't hear a difference until somewhere between 1.5 to 3db). If you were to do it I would run the rear surrounds and maybe the surrounds from the Yamaha (or Yamahas) and you may have a small improvement and they may run cooler but you have to ask if the hassle and cost (remote turn on if you implement it) is worth it. Since you have both Yamahas already I guess it can't hurt to try.

Using just one run the Pre-out RCA from surround / back surround to front and surround input on the Yamaha and use Front A and Surround speaker outputs on the Yamaha,
or if running 2 Yamahas, from surround to front and rear surround to front and use Front A on each Yamaha.

But unless you are running at very loud volumes all the time I would just stick to the Denon. The main reason people are using a 2nd AVR is for the extra Atmos channel amplification that is not available onboard their main AVR.

I have a Yamaha RX-A3040 and have offloaded 5 channels to a genuine 100w RMS (not peak) Rotel amp and its not until I get close to reference volume (0MV on the dial) that it makes a difference.



Niterida,


Thanks for your response and the advice for wiring one or both of the Yamahas. What you said makes sense, and I had figured there would probably be little benefit but wanted to check with people much smarter at me when it comes to these things. Since I already have them, I might make this a quarantine project and try your suggestions. Plus, it will make my parents happy if I can use them.
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post #154 of 179 Old 04-13-2020, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by darryl.zuk View Post
Thanks! This actually has much better ratings than some of the other solutions I found on Amazon after doing some searching in the forums. I will definitely go this route if I decide to install the second AVR.
It works very well, very well made, and reasonably priced. Never had a problem with it function correctly under a number of scenarios. Depending on the devices, it does turn on and shut off. Can't recommend it enough.
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post #155 of 179 Old 04-13-2020, 02:48 PM
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Ok, just redo a calibration. Started at no volume on the Sony (MV is all the way down), of course, Audyssey showed that the height speakers were not even there since no sound came through at all. Then I set the Sony volume to just under half way up, the end result showed the heights were at 0.0dB to +0.5dB. Perfect! But when I looked at the Crossovers, this is what I got:

Front 40Hz
Center 150Hz
Surround 40Hz
Sur Back 40Hz
Heights 80Hz

Seems a bit odd with Center being set at 150Hz, what do you all think??

Should I just set everything to 80Hz? And I probably need to level down the Subwoofers (I have two) if I set crossovers to 80, correct? One other strange thing, I also checked the Distance after the calibration, my two subs are set next to the Front speakers, so they are equal distance from the listening position, one of the subs was shown with a distance of 1.3ft, while the other is 12.8ft. What is wrong with that? I heard Audyssey is not always accurate, is that true??

Please advise!

Last edited by Thomas Wu; 04-13-2020 at 03:06 PM.
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post #156 of 179 Old 04-13-2020, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Wu View Post
Ok, just redo a calibration. Started at no volume on the Sony (MV is all the way down), of course, Audyssey showed that the height speakers were not even there since no sound came through at all. Then I set the Sony volume to just under half way up, the end result showed the heights were at 0.0dB to +0.5dB. Perfect! But when I looked at the Crossovers, this is what I got:

Front 40Hz
Center 150Hz
Surround 40Hz
Sur Back 40Hz
Heights 80Hz

Seems a bit odd with Center being set at 150Hz, what do you all think??

Should I just set everything to 80Hz? And I probably need to level down the Subwoofers (I have two) if I set crossovers to 80, correct? One other strange thing, I also checked the Distance after the calibration, my two subs are set next to the Front speakers, so they are equal distance from the listening position, one of the subs was shown with a distance of 1.3ft, while the other is 12.8ft. What is wrong with that? I heard Audyssey is not always accurate, is that true??

Please advise!
Sounds like you have the 2nd AVR perfect

I would set all crossovers to 80 except the centre. There will be a reason it is set to 150 - either the speaker itself or its positioning. Best to ask in a more appropriate thread or forum to find out exactly what is going on. Same with the subs - auto calibration is notoriously inaccurate.
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post #157 of 179 Old 04-13-2020, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
Sounds like you have the 2nd AVR perfect

I would set all crossovers to 80 except the centre. There will be a reason it is set to 150 - either the speaker itself or its positioning. Best to ask in a more appropriate thread or forum to find out exactly what is going on. Same with the subs - auto calibration is notoriously inaccurate.
Thank you niterida! Going with 80Hz and recheck my bass again. Then I will use the Sound Analyzer to make things better. Will let you know later!
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post #158 of 179 Old 04-21-2020, 09:29 AM
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Would it make sense to set the levels for the speakers controlled by the old avr before running audyssey on the new processor?
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post #159 of 179 Old 04-21-2020, 09:37 AM
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Yes!! The master AVR controls every aspect of your sound now, the other AVR is only using the amp section, controlled by your master AVR. Enjoy!

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post #160 of 179 Old 04-21-2020, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel57 View Post
Would it make sense to set the levels for the speakers controlled by the old avr before running audyssey on the new processor?
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Originally Posted by Dan30thz28 View Post
Yes!! The master AVR controls every aspect of your sound now, the other AVR is only using the amp section, controlled by your master AVR. Enjoy!
No do not set speaker level in the 2nd AVR. Reset the 2nd AVR back to factory settings. Set all speaker levels to 0 (or the same level as each other) and all speaker distances to 0 (or the smallest number you can or the same distance as each other). Set the volume to 0MV or 75db or 3/4 depending on the settings it uses and leave it at that.
Basically you are removing all processing from this AVR as Dan30thz28 stated.

Now run Audyssey on the primary AVR and let it set the levels and distances.

Check that the levels are not maxed out in either direction on the primary AVR for the speakers controlled by the 2nd AVR - if they are maxed out negatively, turn the 2nd AVR volume down and if maxed out positively turn the volume down and rerun Audyssey until the levels are not maxed. It doesn't matter where the levels end up as long as they are not maxed, but you can adjust the volume on the 2nd AVR and keep rerunning Audyssey until you get the levels to 0 or similar to the other speakers depending on how bad your OCD is
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post #161 of 179 Old 04-21-2020, 10:20 AM
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Hello,
Thanks for explaining yourself better than I did!


Sincerely,
Dan Maldonado



Quote:
Originally Posted by niterida View Post
No do not set speaker level in the 2nd AVR. Reset the 2nd AVR back to factory settings. Set all speaker levels to 0 (or the same level as each other) and all speaker distances to 0 (or the smallest number you can or the same distance as each other). Set the volume to 0MV or 75db or 3/4 depending on the settings it uses and leave it at that.
Basically you are removing all processing from this AVR as Dan30thz28 stated.

Now run Audyssey on the primary AVR and let it set the levels and distances.

Check that the levels are not maxed out in either direction on the primary AVR for the speakers controlled by the 2nd AVR - if they are maxed out negatively, turn the 2nd AVR volume down and if maxed out positively turn the volume down and rerun Audyssey until the levels are not maxed. It doesn't matter where the levels end up as long as they are not maxed, but you can adjust the volume on the 2nd AVR and keep rerunning Audyssey until you get the levels to 0 or similar to the other speakers depending on how bad your OCD is
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post #162 of 179 Old 04-22-2020, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
No do not set speaker level in the 2nd AVR. Reset the 2nd AVR back to factory settings. Set all speaker levels to 0 (or the same level as each other) and all speaker distances to 0 (or the smallest number you can or the same distance as each other). Set the volume to 0MV or 75db or 3/4 depending on the settings it uses and leave it at that.
Basically you are removing all processing from this AVR as Dan30thz28 stated.

Now run Audyssey on the primary AVR and let it set the levels and distances.

Check that the levels are not maxed out in either direction on the primary AVR for the speakers controlled by the 2nd AVR - if they are maxed out negatively, turn the 2nd AVR volume down and if maxed out positively turn the volume down and rerun Audyssey until the levels are not maxed. It doesn't matter where the levels end up as long as they are not maxed, but you can adjust the volume on the 2nd AVR and keep rerunning Audyssey until you get the levels to 0 or similar to the other speakers depending on how bad your OCD is
ohh! Got it, Thanks
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post #163 of 179 Old 05-09-2020, 04:35 PM
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I have a Denon X6200W. I repurposed an old Denon 1912 to power my two rear heights. How do I trigger the 1912 to come on when I turn on the X6200W?
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post #164 of 179 Old 05-09-2020, 09:11 PM
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I have a Denon X6200W. I repurposed an old Denon 1912 to power my two rear heights. How do I trigger the 1912 to come on when I turn on the X6200W?
You take one of your fingers and press the Power button. It should go from Standby to On

But seriously it can't be done as there is no Input Trigger on the 1912.

You can buy a power board that senses when you power on the 6200 and then allows power to the 1912 but I think that will still levae it in Standby mode so you still have to manually power it on, via aforementioned finger or 1912 remote.
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post #165 of 179 Old 05-10-2020, 08:49 AM
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I have a Denon X6200W. I repurposed an old Denon 1912 to power my two rear heights. How do I trigger the 1912 to come on when I turn on the X6200W?
One option is you could buy a universal remote control such as a Logitech Harmony 650 and teach it to send a turn on/off pulse of infrared light to the 2nd AVR whenever the main one is sent a turn on/off signal.

P.S. When you teach an aftermarket remote a sequence of commands from a single keystroke it is often called a "macro". I'm pretty sure many brands offer this.

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post #166 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 01:13 PM
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One option is you could buy a universal remote control such as a Logitech Harmony 650 and teach it to send a turn on/off pulse of infrared light to the 2nd AVR whenever the main one is sent a turn on/off signal.

P.S. When you teach an aftermarket remote a sequence of commands from a single keystroke it is often called a "macro". I'm pretty sure many brands offer this.
I have a question hopefully someone can help me as it relates to using an old receiver as a power amp. Currently building a set a speakers for music use (LR only) and trying using an active xover with a minidsp I have lying around. I have a number of old receivers and would like to repurpose if possible for the application but I can't seem to figure out how I would set them up with the 4 channels coming out of the DSP L high, L low , ect. At least 2 of them (Integra dtr 9.9 and denon avr987) have both preamp in and outs for 7 channels. Anyone know how I could set this up for stereo music application with the 4 channels?
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post #167 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 01:26 PM
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I have a question hopefully someone can help me as it relates to using an old receiver as a power amp. Currently building a set a speakers for music use (LR only) and trying using an active xover with a minidsp I have lying around. I have a number of old receivers and would like to repurpose if possible for the application but I can't seem to figure out how I would set them up with the 4 channels coming out of the DSP L high, L low , ect. At least 2 of them (Integra dtr 9.9 and denon avr987) have both preamp in and outs for 7 channels. Anyone know how I could set this up for stereo music application with the 4 channels?
Active bi-amping main speakers has extremely tiny benefits and is not worth the hassle, especially in this day and age where we have sophisticated and advanced EQs in our AVRs and prepros which can run circles around anything an active bi-amped system can accomplish.
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post #168 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 01:43 PM
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Active bi-amping main speakers has extremely tiny benefits and is not worth the hassle, especially in this day and age where we have sophisticated and advanced EQs in our AVRs and prepros which can run circles around anything an active bi-amped system can accomplish.
I'm going to use the miniDsp as an active crossover/Eq for a pair of 2 way speakers so there needs to be 4 channels of amplification.
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post #169 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 01:48 PM
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Are you going to rip out the internal passive crossovers in your speakers so you have direct access to the raw tweeter driver and woofer driver, completely bypassing the insertion loss introduced by the passive crossovers?

Many people incorrectly think that by removing the jumper straps on the back of their "bi-ampable" speakers they suddenly have direct access to the drivers. They are wrong.

Ripping out the passive crossovers voids the warranty, of course.
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post #170 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 01:57 PM
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These are DIY open baffle speakers. I normally build with passive xover components but I wanted to try another design with active since I potentially have the majority of the components already around and could accomplish trying this out rather cheaply. The passive version of the speaker needs rather expensive crossover components. This might be a question on the DIY forum but since my main question was about the amp portion I figured I would give it a try here first.
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post #171 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 02:06 PM
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The best source on the web which discusses the proper implementation of using external active crossovers, be they digital or not, is Rod Elliot:
https://sound-au.com/bi-amp.htm



As for turning a multichannel AVR into a plain-Jane multi ch power amp without sound modification to each channel, that's generally accomplished by doing a factory reset of its micro processor to neutralizes all previous adjustments, pressing the "Pure Direct" button, then the "EXT. Multi-channel IN" button to activate the RCA ins, and crossing your fingers.

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post #172 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
As for turning a multichannel AVR into a plain-Jane multi ch power amp without sound modification to each channel, that's generally accomplished by doing a factory reset of its micro processor to neutralizes all previous adjustments, pressing the "Pure Direct" button, then the "EXT. Multi-channel IN" button to activate the RCA ins, and crossing your fingers.
If you don't have an EXT. IN, you can still use Main Zone, Zone 2, and Zone 3 for up to 6 channels.
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post #173 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 02:44 PM
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If you don't have an EXT. IN, you can still use Main Zone, Zone 2, and Zone 3 for up to 6 channels.
Generally Zone 2, Zone 3, and main room mirror each other so that's more a 2 ch in 3 out scenario rather than 6ch in and 6 ch out. Plus I'd raise an eyebrow that you can assume they are all at truly the exact same level just because you've set each to "0".

On units with multi source capability, per zone, I suppose that could work.

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post #174 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 03:23 PM
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If you don't have an EXT. IN, you can still use Main Zone, Zone 2, and Zone 3 for up to 6 channels.
So if I have full 7 channel ext in does it not matter which channels I choose as long as they match up to the speaker output?
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post #175 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Generally Zone 2, Zone 3, and main room mirror each other so that's more a 2 ch in 3 out scenario rather than 6ch in and 6 ch out. Plus I'd raise an eyebrow that you can assume they are all at truly the exact same level just because you've set each to "0".

On units with multi source capability, per zone, I suppose that could work.
There are many Denon model AVRs out there that don’t have multichannel analog inputs. I’m using my X5200W to power 5 channels using all 3 zones. Audyssey on my Marantz takes care of level matching.
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post #176 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 05:01 PM
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So if I have full 7 channel ext in does it not matter which channels I choose as long as they match up to the speaker output?
What you are trying to do will definitely work - I have done the exact same.
So yes - just take the 4 outputs from the miniDSP and put them in any 4 inputs of the AVR - just make sure you run the corresponding speaker outputs to the correct driver.
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post #177 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by David Ortiz View Post
Audyssey on my Marantz takes care of level matching.
Audyssey can take care of level matching different speakers in multi speaker room, true, but it can't level match different drivers of a multi-driver speaker, what this guy is attempting to build.
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post #178 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
What you are trying to do will definitely work - I have done the exact same.
So yes - just take the 4 outputs from the miniDSP and put them in any 4 inputs of the AVR - just make sure you run the corresponding speaker outputs to the correct driver.
Thank you! It sounds like I was over thinking this
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post #179 of 179 Old 05-14-2020, 05:45 PM
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Audyssey can take care of level matching different speakers in multi speaker room, true, but it can't level match different drivers of a multi-driver speaker, what this guy is attempting to build.
Thank you for your help. I have a calibrated mic from cross spectrum so level matching was never a concern.
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