Help! Subwoofer issues! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Help! Subwoofer issues!

Hello,

I've noticed over the past few weeks on odd sound that I thought was just my walls rattling. I decided to run a frequency test and found that around 45-25hz my subwoofer makes a disturbing fluttering sound. If you put your hand behind the port it feels like several high puffs of sound. It's not a pleasant sound at all and i'm not sure how to fix it. I'm using a Klipsch Reference 10" R-10SW with my Denon X2300W. I've noticed that even if I manually turn the gain down it still reproduces this sound, just at a lower volume. Is this normal? It doesn't happen often, but it does happen a lot during heavy bass/battle scenes and is pretty jarring. Wondering if there is anything I can do from the Denon end to fix it? Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

Lou
louballs is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 06:10 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5768
I'd say it's just from trying to get too much out of a single 10 inch sub.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #3 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
I'd say it's just from trying to get too much out of a single 10 inch sub.
How so? Even with the gain turned very low, it still produces this sound, so it's not like it's being overdriven. Are you suggesting that if I attached a second sub it wouldn't create the sound anymore?
louballs is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 07:32 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5768
I surmised you don't have enough subbage when you said 'It doesn't happen often, but it does happen a lot during heavy bass/battle scenes and is pretty jarring.'
If it's something that's happening at low levels that points to something wrong mechanically inside the sub.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #5 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
I surmised you don't have enough subbage when you said 'It doesn't happen often, but it does happen a lot during heavy bass/battle scenes and is pretty jarring.'
If it's something that's happening at low levels that points to something wrong mechanically inside the sub.
Well, I guess I should have said it only happens at low frequencies. During my test it started happening around 40hz or so.
louballs is offline  
post #6 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 08:29 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5768
The demands on sub woofer drivers and amps go up as frequency goes down, so it's low frequencies that will reveal if you don't have as much sub as you need.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #7 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
The demands on sub woofer drivers and amps go up as frequency goes down, so it's low frequencies that will reveal if you don't have as much sub as you need.
Would this be subwoofer "chuffing"? Is there any thing that can be done to reduce it? I may be running too hot, but not sure how to reduce that. I'm not well versed in this stuff.
popalock likes this.
louballs is offline  
post #8 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 10:01 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 18,365
Mentioned: 214 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8559 Post(s)
Liked: 5759
Quote:
Originally Posted by louballs View Post
Would this be subwoofer "chuffing"? Is there any thing that can be done to reduce it? I may be running too hot, but not sure how to reduce that. I'm not well versed in this stuff.
I put some low density foam in the port plugs of my small subs in my secondary sub, so that might be worth a try.
Snoogleheimer likes this.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #9 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 11:49 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5768
Chuffing is noise made by air vibrating in the port at high velocity. That velocity is based on the excursion of the driver cone. Excursion goes up as frequency goes down, especially below the tuning frequency of the cab, so not only is it annoying to hear, it also could mean the driver is in danger of mechanical damage from over-excursion.
Quote:
I may be running too hot, but not sure how to reduce that.
Go to a larger sub or add another, both if you're into big bass.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #10 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 11:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,689
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3318 Post(s)
Liked: 1871
not all subs are created equal. and your sub just might not be capable of playing sounds below 40hz well.
Snoogleheimer likes this.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is online now  
post #11 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
Chuffing is noise made by air vibrating in the port at high velocity. That velocity is based on the excursion of the driver cone. Excursion goes up as frequency goes down, especially below the tuning frequency of the cab, so not only is it annoying to hear, it also could mean the driver is in danger of mechanical damage from over-excursion.
Quote:
I may be running too hot, but not sure how to reduce that.
Go to a larger sub or add another, both if you're into big bass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
not all subs are created equal. and your sub just might not be capable of playing sounds below 40hz well.
Ok, and that may be the route I go, but in the mean time is there a way to reduce it? How can I reduce the strain on the sub? Even if I turn the gain down on the sub, I still get the sound, just quieter. I can't imagine that there is no way to reduce the strain, even if it means sacrificing some of the bass until I either upgrade or add another.
louballs is offline  
post #12 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 12:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,689
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3318 Post(s)
Liked: 1871
does the sub have a crossover filter on it which will prevent it from playing anything too low? I know older subs in the 90's had options like that, but many of the new stuff probably dont maybe others can help.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is online now  
post #13 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
does the sub have a crossover filter on it which will prevent it from playing anything too low? I know older subs in the 90's had options like that, but many of the new stuff probably dont maybe others can help.
It doesn't, just an LPF knob.
louballs is offline  
post #14 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Ok, so after doing some research, it seems it is a common problem with this sub. I'm going to have to upgrade. Probably to an svs pb1000 or pb2000. Not sure which yet. Frustrating as I can't take it back anymore, so I'm going to have to try to sell it locally as shipping will be a fortune on it.
Snoogleheimer likes this.
louballs is offline  
post #15 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 02:17 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 18,365
Mentioned: 214 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8559 Post(s)
Liked: 5759
Quote:
Originally Posted by louballs View Post
Ok, so after doing some research, it seems it is a common problem with this sub. I'm going to have to upgrade. Probably to an svs pb1000 or pb2000. Not sure which yet. Frustrating as I can't take it back anymore, so I'm going to have to try to sell it locally as shipping will be a fortune on it.
Your sub's spec is 32hz; all of these play deeper, even the least expensive one.

PORTED SUBWOOFERS $600 AND BELOW, DELIVERED

150watts 28hz $199 EMOTIVA BASX S8
200watts 27hz $299 EMOTIVA BASX S10
300watts 25hz $399 EMOTIVA BASX S12
250watts 22hz $423 HSU VTF 1 MK3
300watts 19hz $499 SVS PB1000
300watts 19hz $549 RHYTHMIK LV12R
350watts 18hz $604 HSU VTF2 MK5


SEALED SUBWOOFERS $600 AND BELOW, DELIVERED

300watts 24hz $499 SVS SB1000
300watts 18hz $539 RHYTHMIK L12

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #16 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 02:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 5,353
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1490 Post(s)
Liked: 2088
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by louballs View Post
Ok, so after doing some research, it seems it is a common problem with this sub. I'm going to have to upgrade. Probably to an svs pb1000 or pb2000. Not sure which yet. Frustrating as I can't take it back anymore, so I'm going to have to try to sell it locally as shipping will be a fortune on it.
I mean, if you could somehow seal the port it would mitigate the port chuffing. Most likely wouldn't have to worry about mechanical damage to your driver, but thermal damage could still be a possibility. That said, since your sub is active, I'm not sure what kind of built in xover it has.

Would be nice if you had some way to measure your frequency response, just to see if there is any objective measurable benefit to sealing up your sub (besides loosing a ton of output at port tune...lol).
popalock is offline  
post #17 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I was able to reduce some of the chuffing by reducing the output from the avr, down to -9db, and turning off dynamic eq, but I still don't like it. Upgrading seems inevitable as I guess the speaker just can't handle it. It's too bad but I'll have to deal with it for now.
louballs is offline  
post #18 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 05:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Jish9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Liked: 106
If you wanted to keep your sub, your best solution would have been an outboard crossover like a miniDSP where you can manually set the crossover and eliminate the chuffing. As it stands, upgrading to at least two subs 12" or larger each will pay many dividends in the long-run. As far as your choice, I like the SVS that you have chosen but you need more than their PB line. Generally for home theater with today's soundtracks, you are looking at $1000+/each for something long-term. Keep in mind that SVS also has outlet sales on their website where you can save quite a bit on the right sub.
Jish9 is offline  
post #19 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
If you wanted to keep your sub, your best solution would have been an outboard crossover like a miniDSP where you can manually set the crossover and eliminate the chuffing. As it stands, upgrading to at least two subs 12" or larger each will pay many dividends in the long-run. As far as your choice, I like the SVS that you have chosen but you need more than their PB line. Generally for home theater with today's soundtracks, you are looking at $1000+/each for something long-term. Keep in mind that SVS also has outlet sales on their website where you can save quite a bit on the right sub.
I'll keep an eye on the outlets. Unfortunately, I just don't have the funds to spend 2k on subs at this time. I wanted something decent and I'm happy with my setup for the most part (other than this issue). I would think that 2 of their higher end model would be overkill for my setup, but maybe overkill doesn't exist...
louballs is offline  
post #20 of 31 Old 08-11-2017, 06:54 PM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5768
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
I mean, if you could somehow seal the port it would mitigate the port chuffing.
It would also change the response of the cab, and not for the better, as the bottom octave would be lost.
popalock likes this.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #21 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 03:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 5,353
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1490 Post(s)
Liked: 2088
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
It would also change the response of the cab, and not for the better, as the bottom octave would be lost.
Agreed. That being said, sounds like his lowest octave is ***** right now with all of the chuffing.

I agree with your earlier comment Bill. The OP just needs more woofage if he isn't happy with his existing plight...
popalock is offline  
post #22 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
It would also change the response of the cab, and not for the better, as the bottom octave would be lost.
Agreed. That being said, sounds like his lowest octave is ***** right now with all of the chuffing.

I agree with your earlier comment Bill. The OP just needs more woofage if he isn't happy with his existing plight...
Seems that way. Now I wonder if I will be happy with an 800 dollar pb 2000 or do I really need to spend 2k+, which is not in my current budget as my wife will kill me.
louballs is offline  
post #23 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 06:27 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5768
Price alone isn't an indicator of subwoofer performance. There are ID options in the $800 range that should do quite well for you.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #24 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
Price alone isn't an indicator of subwoofer performance. There are ID options in the $800 range that should do quite well for you.
Is ID generally better performing that SVS for that price point?
louballs is offline  
post #25 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 09:47 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5768
SVS is an ID (internet direct) source.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #26 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 12:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 5,353
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1490 Post(s)
Liked: 2088
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by louballs View Post
Seems that way. Now I wonder if I will be happy with an 800 dollar pb 2000 or do I really need to spend 2k+, which is not in my current budget as my wife will kill me.
Careful with a statement like that. I thought I would be happy with 16 18's, but found I still wanted more.

Do you have facilities / means to build your own? Would the wifey mind if you had a larger box than what your Klipsch currently is? You could get some pretty CRAZY performance for well under $2K!

2 Martys and a iNuke would ruin your life... Just destroy reality as you currently know it...

I'll leave it at that for now, but if you can DIY, it opens up:
popalock is offline  
post #27 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 12:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 5,353
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1490 Post(s)
Liked: 2088
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Spend sometime on this site.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems

If you have heard any of those subs, use your experience as a point of reference, so you can draw your own conclusions...
popalock is offline  
post #28 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Spend sometime on this site.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems

If you have heard any of those subs, use your experience as a point of reference, so you can draw your own conclusions...
Unfortunately, I haven't really heard much at all other than what you see in big box stores, so my point of reference is pretty minimal. I do have the capacity to do a DIY, but never have before. I'm pretty handy and good with wiring/soldering. Where do I begin with something like that? I'd love to do a project like that. Though I fear if I build an awesome sub it will make the rest of my speakers sound subpar lol.
popalock and 18Hurts like this.
louballs is offline  
post #29 of 31 Old 08-12-2017, 04:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 5,353
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1490 Post(s)
Liked: 2088
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by louballs View Post
Unfortunately, I haven't really heard much at all other than what you see in big box stores, so my point of reference is pretty minimal. I do have the capacity to do a DIY, but never have before. I'm pretty handy and good with wiring/soldering. Where do I begin with something like that? I'd love to do a project like that. Though I fear if I build an awesome sub it will make the rest of my speakers sound subpar lol.
Common misconception...With the right tools (DSP) you can easily tune your subs to integrate seamlessly with whatever mains you may have.

Seriously, if tuned properly you literally cannot have too much wooferdom...lol.

Here is where you start:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...tysub-faq.html

BTW. By quick calculation, one full Marty will out perform a Klipsch SW-311 by about 24db at 20Hz....

Klipsch SW-311 = 84db @20hz
Full Marty w/SIHT18 =108db @20hz

Meaning it would take about 16 of the SW-311's to provide similar output as one of the Marty subs @20hz ...

Enjoy your joruney.
popalock is offline  
post #30 of 31 Old 08-13-2017, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by louballs View Post
Unfortunately, I haven't really heard much at all other than what you see in big box stores, so my point of reference is pretty minimal. I do have the capacity to do a DIY, but never have before. I'm pretty handy and good with wiring/soldering. Where do I begin with something like that? I'd love to do a project like that. Though I fear if I build an awesome sub it will make the rest of my speakers sound subpar lol.
Common misconception...With the right tools (DSP) you can easily tune your subs to integrate seamlessly with whatever mains you may have.

Seriously, if tuned properly you literally cannot have too much wooferdom...lol.

Here is where you start:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...tysub-faq.html

BTW. By quick calculation, one full Marty will out perform a Klipsch SW-311 by about 24db at 20Hz....

Klipsch SW-311 = 84db @20hz
Full Marty w/SIHT18 =108db @20hz

Meaning it would take about 16 of the SW-311's to provide similar output as one of the Marty subs @20hz ...

Enjoy your joruney.
Thanks for your help!
louballs is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off