I have never heard reference quality audio before - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 114Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 135 Old 03-18-2018, 12:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,714
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked: 467
Subjective, absolutely. If you want to hear what was intended to be heard, listen to my [main] system.

Main: Mitsubishi 73736|OTA|fireTV|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 - DIY 12" Subs|Behringer KM750|2 Bass Shaker|APC H15 Power Conditioner|Harmony Hub|Sennheiser RS 160|SMSL B1 BT Rx|Linksys SE2500
MBR: Vizio VF550M|OTA|fireTV3|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Dayton SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin Bridge|Belkin PF30|Harmony 550
Squirrel! is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 135 Old 03-18-2018, 12:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 785 Post(s)
Liked: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post
Thanks. Sounds great on my screens speakers.
Wonder how that recording would sound on my setup.
CharlesJ is offline  
post #33 of 135 Old 03-18-2018, 12:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Not in the world of hi-fi electronic sound reproduction.
Calling it "nonsense" make me wonder if you understand what it is.
For real pizza reference, you would need to take a trip to Italy.
A perfect example right here. In the world of hi-fi electronic sound reproduction you say? I have a degree in sound engineering FYI. Some of the best recordings ever made were LIVE in nothing more than a bar or speakeasy if you will with old school ancient relic lacking computer room correction creating a solution for a manufactured problem analog microphones.

Perhaps you don't understand what room correction does being I mentioned the most very basic fundamentally sound manual methods of speaker distance measurement. No software can redirect the direction of a speaker cone or make up for the natural frequency responses of the actual speakers.

Again ..thanks for chiming in.. unless of course you'd like to school the talented jazz and blues players of New Orleans (you know the birthplace of the genre) on the uncorrected and non-treated bars and clubs they play - that they need room correction. Then again - what do i know?

JBL Array 1400, 880, & 800s on custom sound anchors / Revel C763L x4
Marantz AV8805 / TEAC NT-505 / Oppo 205 / Emotiva XPA DR3 / Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3
PSA S1801 x2
Bob Carver Crimson 350 tube monoblocks
JBL Everest DD67000s (awaiting amplification)

Last edited by love_that_sound; 03-18-2018 at 01:04 PM.
love_that_sound is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 135 Old 03-18-2018, 02:33 PM
 
LFEer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 818 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
I now wonder if you took 5 different speaker designs and calibrated all 5 flat if there would be any discernable difference while listening at normal levels in a blind test?
They have different levels of transient response and distortion so yes. The degree of difference would depend on how loud they are played.
LFEer is offline  
post #35 of 135 Old 03-18-2018, 02:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
michael hurd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 635 Post(s)
Liked: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
Again ..thanks for chiming in.. unless of course you'd like to school the talented jazz and blues players of New Orleans (you know the birthplace of the genre) on the uncorrected and non-treated bars and clubs they play - that they need room correction. Then again - what do i know?
Not sure what you know.

Music creation IE: art, is quite removed from reproduction of said art.

Ask your doctor if DIY is right for you. Side effects of DIY may include anxiety, elevated blood pressure, lightheadedness, rapid heartbeat, skeletal muscle flaccidity, euphoria, psychological dependence, insomnia, confusion, blurred vision, implusivity, uncontrolled or repeated movements.
michael hurd is offline  
post #36 of 135 Old 03-18-2018, 02:38 PM
 
LFEer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 818 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
I have a degree in sound engineering FYI.
For someone with such degree would say the following quote makes me wonder about the authenticity of that claim on the degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
Reference is what you think or feel it should sound like.
Quote:
Perhaps you don't understand what room correction does being I mentioned the most very basic fundamentally sound manual methods of speaker distance measurement. No software can redirect the direction of a speaker cone or make up for the natural frequency responses of the actual speakers.

Again ..thanks for chiming in.. unless of course you'd like to school the talented jazz and blues players of New Orleans (you know the birthplace of the genre) on the uncorrected and non-treated bars and clubs they play - that they need room correction. Then again - what do i know?
What about replay system of what they played?
CruelInventions likes this.
LFEer is offline  
post #37 of 135 Old 03-19-2018, 10:26 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15,124
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2755 Post(s)
Liked: 2660
Not that I have the answer to this question, but I've always been fascinated by live vs reproduced sound. To that end I've made good recordings of familiar sounds in my home - me playing my acoustic guitar, my son practicing saxophone, my wife's voice speaking, etc. And I've used those recordings to compare the live vs reproduced sound on my system (with various speakers over the years). Sometimes my system can reproduce these sounds with pretty astonishing verisimilitude. My current Thiel speakers, as well as my MBL omni-directional speakers, both produce an uncanny sensation of being in the presence of a live instrument, especially if you stand just outside the room. I've fooled a few people who thought my son was in there practicing sax, or someone was playing guitar. So that is some indication of the accuracy of the system. (Again, also comparing directly live vs reproduced...there is no mixing/mastering between the original sound and playing it through the speakers, and even with a bit of microphone coloration, a good system can do an excellent job of sounding quite similar to the live instrument...though never totally).
unretarded likes this.
R Harkness is offline  
post #38 of 135 Old 03-19-2018, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PrimeTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lower California
Posts: 3,234
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 788 Post(s)
Liked: 487
It's not hard to fool the ear from an adjacent room, letting the performance/reproduction space act as an acoustic blender to mash everything together.

Reproducing a single instrument/voice/source convincingly isn't too challenging either (percussion excepted).

The challenge arises when multiple sources/performers are funneled through the stereophonic playback channels conceived seventy years ago with the advent of the 33-1/3 vinyl LP. A quartet with percussion? Symphony orchestra? Although binaural headphones can approximate it, free-air loudspeakers and home acoustics can't begin to re-create the live performance experience.

The Grateful Dead were on to something when they conceived a reinforcement system where each individual instrument had its own PA. The idea holds, as Tomlinson has documented: multichannel playback is the way to go, as it avoids running everything through a blender. Unfortunately, this is impractical and beyond the reach of consumer audio.
PrimeTime is offline  
post #39 of 135 Old 03-19-2018, 11:45 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15,124
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2755 Post(s)
Liked: 2660
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post
It's not hard to fool the ear from an adjacent room, letting the performance/reproduction space act as an acoustic blender to mash everything together.

Reproducing a single instrument/voice/source convincingly isn't too challenging either (percussion excepted).
I agree those are easier to reproduce in that manner. However, it's still a good indicator of tonal accuracy and other aspects of a system. When I hear a single instrument through a sound system I often close my eyes and ask if I could believe it was the real thing, and if not, what was it cuing me to the artificial nature of the sound. Aside from dynamics, often the difference for me is tonal/timbral - a slightly too dark quality, lack of air, a plasticy, electronic or grayish signature etc.
When I play my guitar it evokes very specific timbral colors in my mind and I can instantly tell when my recording is played through a speaker if those timbral signatures aren't present.

The "outside the room" test can help increase the brightness and acoustic presence of the reproduced instrument, but it doesn't add back that accurate timbre so an inaccurate speaker still doesn't sound like it's playing the instruments I know, even from outside the room. I've ended up keeping the speakers that pass this test better than others because in the long run more instruments sound right and believable through the speakers than ones that can't even pass a single instrument test.

As always, everyone else's mileage may vary...
unretarded likes this.
R Harkness is offline  
post #40 of 135 Old 03-19-2018, 12:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Christian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
For someone with such degree would say the following quote makes me wonder about the authenticity of that claim on the degree.



What about replay system of what they played?


LFE and Love/Sound, I believe u both are arguing different perspectives; and I agree with both.

Live performances don’t need room correction. But, if u record it, and play it back without the performers and in a different venue; u need room correction to remove whatever acoustical anomalies the living room introduces.
CharlesJ and unretarded like this.
Christian is offline  
post #41 of 135 Old 03-19-2018, 04:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 785 Post(s)
Liked: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Not that I have the answer to this question, but I've always been fascinated by live vs reproduced sound. To that end I've made good recordings of familiar sounds in my home - me playing my acoustic guitar, my son practicing saxophone, my wife's voice speaking, etc. And I've used those recordings to compare the live vs reproduced sound on my system (with various speakers over the years). Sometimes my system can reproduce these sounds with pretty astonishing verisimilitude. My current Thiel speakers, as well as my MBL omni-directional speakers, both produce an uncanny sensation of being in the presence of a live instrument, especially if you stand just outside the room. I've fooled a few people who thought my son was in there practicing sax, or someone was playing guitar. So that is some indication of the accuracy of the system. (Again, also comparing directly live vs reproduced...there is no mixing/mastering between the original sound and playing it through the speakers, and even with a bit of microphone coloration, a good system can do an excellent job of sounding quite similar to the live instrument...though never totally).
Yes, you record and play back in the same room. It certainly should sound as you describe.
Now, take that recording and play it back some drastically different room.
CharlesJ is offline  
post #42 of 135 Old 03-19-2018, 04:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
NuSoardGraphite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,564
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Liked: 476
"How it's supposed to sound" can be, in itself, subjective.

Oftentimes audiophiles are talking about live music. However, "how it sounds" is going to be predicated upon the specific venue. Is it in a concert hall? An outdoor amphitheater? A fairly closed in jazz club?

Some people are referring to studio albums recorded in pristine settings with complete and total control of acoustics. But which recording studio?

If there was to be a standard, it should probably be a recording album. But that is not agreed upon at all.

The only thing you can go by is as flat of an EQ as possible for accurate reproduction of the tones to the best ability allowed by your room and equipment with the understanding that exact reproduction is essentially impossible.

Stand tall and shake the heavens...
NuSoardGraphite is offline  
post #43 of 135 Old 03-19-2018, 04:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15,124
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2755 Post(s)
Liked: 2660
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Yes, you record and play back in the same room. It certainly should sound as you describe.
Now, take that recording and play it back some drastically different room.
I have. I used to tote those recordings with me when checking out systems.

On a good system, the sound is quite convincing and pretty accurate to what I hear from the same instrument/voices at home (or as played by my system at home); on a less accurate one...less so. Some speakers/systems - either in the same room, or in a variety of rooms - don't portray the recordings as convincingly as others, which is why I found those recordings to be revealing.
unretarded likes this.
R Harkness is offline  
post #44 of 135 Old 03-19-2018, 05:14 PM
Member
 
MJB1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
I know personal preference for audio sound signatures is really what it boils down to.




But, I have never heard exactly what anything is supposed to sound like.


Lots of car stereos, but who knows if it is actually what it was supposed to sound like....lots of home stereos etc.




But I have no reference to what a song is supposed to sound like to compare.


Given the endless supply of varied content and speakers, how I am I supposed to ever know what it was originally intended to sound like to compare to my system ?


I have heard and have settings that give me what I think sounds good.


I know as flat as possible is a rule of thumb......


Where does one go to find perfect sound or at least exactly what it is supposed to sound like......how can I ever say, that's how it is suppose to sound.


Concerts are a poor place to find accurate true sound....movie theaters are not that great, .......are even sound demo rooms any good for this.


I want to hear a song exactly how it should sound and then compare it to my room.


Is that futile, should one just set his or her room until they think it is perfect or set the room flat no matter if they like it or not.


Seems like to get that perfect sound signature I like for music, I could re do all the settings for each song to be happy. Setting the room flat, some songs sound great, some horrible......setting everything for the content being played back gets great results, then the next song or album needs all the settings different to sound what I consider great.


How does everyone deal with this or has anyone ever heard how anything is supposed to sound beyond a live unamplified orchestra ?


I just pick a album, play with the settings until it sounds outstanding, then listen to the album/cd/recording and change it all for the next one, otherwise it never sounds just right for all the different content. I have found no one group of settings that sound great for all content.


Is this what it means when one hits audiophile status....in the old days it was crank it loud and party on. Then later just blaming the recording itself when one cd sounded great and the next one horrible.


Now I would like to know what is the song even supposed to sound like to begin with......
See if you can find a recording or, better yet, a mastering studio in your area and see if anyone would be willing to spend a few minutes playing one of your cd's or files on their reference system. Tell them what you told us and they just might invite you for a tour if they have some extra time. The worst that they could say is "sorry, no" but as long as you are respectful and eager to learn, you might get an invite. Most recording techs are nice people and want to turn people on to what "good sound" is like.
unretarded likes this.
MJB1023 is offline  
post #45 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 07:08 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 11
If you can't get lost in the music because you're nitpicking every little detail and wondering what the artist intended, then chances are you're MISSING what the artist intended.

Reproducing perfect studio or live sound obviously is great for making a better connection with the music, but I'd argue that most artists created their stuff knowing full well that a lot of the detail will be lost - or at best, colored - by the sound setup of each listener.

At the end of the day, if you can close your eyes and the instruments sound believable, then that's really the best you can do in my humble opinion. Reference quality is an ideal to strive for and some (I assume) achieve, but worrying about what a song is "supposed" to sound like isn't really productive as every recording will have a different "ideal" sweet spot.
PrimeTime and CruelInventions like this.

www.retrogameboards.com - the best place to discuss Retro Video Games and retro gaming AV setups.
Peltz-0 is offline  
post #46 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 07:18 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 11,600
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1162 Post(s)
Liked: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
But, I have never heard exactly what anything is supposed to sound like.
But I have no reference to what a song is supposed to sound like to compare.
Given the endless supply of varied content and speakers, how I am I supposed to ever know what it was originally intended to sound like to compare to my system ?
I want to hear a song exactly how it should sound and then compare it to my room.
Now I would like to know what is the song even supposed to sound like to begin with......
My friend @audioguy had his wife solve this problem for him:

Quote:
I used to believe that a great home audio system could at least reproduce a 3 piece jazz combo. But then my wonderful bride surprised me for a birthday and hired a 3 piece jazz combo to play in our home. If live music is 100, then the very, very best 2 channel audio system is a 10 - maybe!!! It is that far apart. So I quit the chase toward perfection (and the attendant expense) and decided to focus on fun. (Still ain't cheap - and it is still an addiction interesting hobby!!!).
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wha...l#post24134933

Have fun!

Craig
PrimeTime and unretarded like this.

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System
craig john is offline  
post #47 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 08:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PrimeTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lower California
Posts: 3,234
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 788 Post(s)
Liked: 487
"If live music is 100, then the very, very best 2 channel audio system is a 10 - maybe!!! It is that far apart. So I quit the chase toward perfection (and the attendant expense) and decided to focus on fun"

The best post I've read on the subject.

Another, possibly more generous, way to look at it is to consider live as an "apple" and recorded as an "orange." Try as one might, you will never make an orange taste like an apple. So don't try. Just savor your orange as it is, or maybe try different varieties of oranges.

Some may even squeeze out the orange, add some vodka or tequila to it, and declare it the best of the oranges. The purist orange conoisseurs will scoff at that perceived degradation of their prized orange, even if screwdrivers and sunrises overtake them in pleasure and popularity.
PrimeTime is offline  
post #48 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 10:21 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 11,600
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1162 Post(s)
Liked: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post
Some may even squeeze out the orange, add some vodka or tequila to it, and declare it the best of the oranges. The purist orange conoisseurs will scoff at that perceived degradation of their prized orange, even if screwdrivers and sunrises overtake them in pleasure and popularity.
Grey Goose L'Orange is the BEST Vodka I ever tasted. Not "sweet" at all, and only a "hint" of orange, but just enough. Shaken over ice, in a frosted martini glass... that's a little slice of heaven. Of course, I haven't had one since my throat cancer surgery, but I can still taste it with my imaginary taste buds.

Never liked the taste of any apple vodkas tho.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System
craig john is offline  
post #49 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 10:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Grey Goose L'Orange is the BEST Vodka I ever tasted. Not "sweet" at all, and only a "hint" of orange, but just enough. Shaken over ice, in a frosted martini glass... that's a little slice of heaven. Of course, I haven't had one since my throat cancer surgery, but I can still taste it with my imaginary taste buds.

Never liked the taste of any apple vodkas tho.

Craig
Erm, you do know that Grey Goose was invented by someone who didn't give a damn what it tasted like, right? His stated goal was to sell it for the highest price of any vodka. And Grey Goose doesn't taste any different than any other vodka. In fact, properly made vodka should taste the same as any other properly made vodka. If it doesn't, something's amiss.
jsrtheta is offline  
post #50 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 11:04 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peltz-0 View Post
If you can't get lost in the music because you're nitpicking every little detail and wondering what the artist intended, then chances are you're MISSING what the artist intended.

Reproducing perfect studio or live sound obviously is great for making a better connection with the music, but I'd argue that most artists created their stuff knowing full well that a lot of the detail will be lost - or at best, colored - by the sound setup of each listener.

At the end of the day, if you can close your eyes and the instruments sound believable, then that's really the best you can do in my humble opinion. Reference quality is an ideal to strive for and some (I assume) achieve, but worrying about what a song is "supposed" to sound like isn't really productive as every recording will have a different "ideal" sweet spot.
Anyone whose tastes (like mine) run mainly to rock and pop knows that such music sounds best in its recorded form. Live rock and pop sounds terrible when it comes to quality. There is tremendous joy in watching our favorite artists (or new discoveries) play live. But for actual sound quality? No. I have spent far too much time in clubs and arenas (I stopped going to arena shows a while back for a number of reasons, this among them), much of it standing next to the sound engineer, to have any illusions about the live experience.

This is not a slam on the musicians, who are usually quite capable. But many rock clubs are re-purposed spaces that were never designed with good acoustics in mind, and arenas are designed to accommodate all kinds of acts, some not even musical, and the goal is to put as many asses in seats as possible, not to create audio nirvana.

Recreating the sound of an orchestra playing in a dedicated concert hall, or a small jazz combo in an intimate space, yeah, those can be good references. Recreating the acoustics of the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago with Midnight Oil playing is frankly sadistic. And I love Midnight Oil. Well, most of their stuff, anyway.
CruelInventions likes this.
jsrtheta is offline  
post #51 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 11:36 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 11,600
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1162 Post(s)
Liked: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrtheta View Post
Erm, you do know that Grey Goose was invented by someone who didn't give a damn what it tasted like, right? His stated goal was to sell it for the highest price of any vodka. And Grey Goose doesn't taste any different than any other vodka. In fact, properly made vodka should taste the same as any other properly made vodka. If it doesn't, something's amiss.
I'll keep that in mind the next time I have one.
jsrtheta likes this.

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System
craig john is offline  
post #52 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 11:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,533
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1202 Post(s)
Liked: 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrtheta View Post
Erm, you do know that Grey Goose was invented by someone who didn't give a damn what it tasted like, right? His stated goal was to sell it for the highest price of any vodka. And Grey Goose doesn't taste any different than any other vodka. In fact, properly made vodka should taste the same as any other properly made vodka. If it doesn't, something's amiss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
I'll keep that in mind the next time I have one.
I recall several years ago either reading or watching a story about a blind taste test among several vodkas. There was either no differences detected or at least mostly very minimal differences.

And those who insisted that they preferred particular well-known and more expensive brands, all did miserably in picking out their supposedly obvious vodka preference.

Mind you, these were regular non-flavored vodkas so not necessarily applicable to craig johns orange Goose taste preference.

Quote:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard P. Feynman
CruelInventions is offline  
post #53 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 01:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 5,560
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 587 Post(s)
Liked: 540
Go listen to some live music. Symphony, jazz, opera, soloists, whatever and as much of it as you can.

Not that any one performance will.serve aas a reference for any one recorded track, but it is useful training in general and as a general reference point for how real instruments sound in real spaces.

Much current redorded music isn't even mixed and produced to try and sound like a real instrument in a real space so the goal gets a bit fuzzy. Toole's circle of confusion and all.

But still helpful.
Bigus is offline  
post #54 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 01:41 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrtheta View Post
Anyone whose tastes (like mine) run mainly to rock and pop knows that such music sounds best in its recorded form. Live rock and pop sounds terrible when it comes to quality. There is tremendous joy in watching our favorite artists (or new discoveries) play live. But for actual sound quality? No. I have spent far too much time in clubs and arenas (I stopped going to arena shows a while back for a number of reasons, this among them), much of it standing next to the sound engineer, to have any illusions about the live experience.

This is not a slam on the musicians, who are usually quite capable. But many rock clubs are re-purposed spaces that were never designed with good acoustics in mind, and arenas are designed to accommodate all kinds of acts, some not even musical, and the goal is to put as many asses in seats as possible, not to create audio nirvana.

Recreating the sound of an orchestra playing in a dedicated concert hall, or a small jazz combo in an intimate space, yeah, those can be good references. Recreating the acoustics of the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago with Midnight Oil playing is frankly sadistic. And I love Midnight Oil. Well, most of their stuff, anyway.
I agree with all these points. Rock can sound amazing live, but it can also sound terrible depending on the venue. Jazz and classical are probably easier things to tailor your system around (at least that's what I find, but then again, they're my favorite genres so I know more what to look for).

www.retrogameboards.com - the best place to discuss Retro Video Games and retro gaming AV setups.
Peltz-0 is offline  
post #55 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 01:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jonas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Bay Area
Posts: 5,566
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2791 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post

But, I have never heard exactly what anything is supposed to sound like.

But I have no reference to what a song is supposed to sound like to compare.

I have heard and have settings that give me what I think sounds good.
That last one - if it sounds good to you - I think you're there! That is what it is supposed to sound like.....

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
Jonas2 is offline  
post #56 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 03:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
I recall several years ago either reading or watching a story about a blind taste test among several vodkas. There was either no differences detected or at least mostly very minimal differences.

And those who insisted that they preferred particular well-known and more expensive brands, all did miserably in picking out their supposedly obvious vodka preference.

Mind you, these were regular non-flavored vodkas so not necessarily applicable to craig johns orange Goose taste preference.
Ah, you're right, flavored vodkas are a different matter. Though the vodka should be the same.
jsrtheta is offline  
post #57 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 04:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PrimeTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lower California
Posts: 3,234
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 788 Post(s)
Liked: 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
I recall several years ago either reading or watching a story about a blind taste test among several vodkas. There was either no differences detected or at least mostly very minimal differences.

And those who insisted that they preferred particular well-known and more expensive brands, all did miserably in picking out their supposedly obvious vodka preference.
Once upon a time I asked some emigrant Russian audio engineers (prominent in AES circles) which vodka they liked. They answered in unison: "Vons!"

Vons is a supermarket chain that offers a generic single-distilled storebrand vodka. This response likely said more about the Russian proclivity for intoxication in any form.

My wife, who emigrated from a Communist country when they were still shooting at escapees, prefers Absolut.
PrimeTime is offline  
post #58 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 05:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 785 Post(s)
Liked: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrtheta View Post
Ah, you're right, flavored vodkas are a different matter. Though the vodka should be the same.
Just like amps.
m. zillch and jsrtheta like this.
CharlesJ is offline  
post #59 of 135 Old 03-20-2018, 06:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,532
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1262 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Just like amps.
Yep,

I like my vodka the same way I like my amps--flavorless!

This channel is always entertaining, the tipsy bartender (great mixes also!) The winner was the least terrible tasting although I generally don't see people sipping straight vodka (except in eastern Europe) The Russian vodka...geez... not sure if it is good or not, I don't seem to recall that night.

I also like Soju--another clear, almost tasteless booze that mimics what you mix it with. Just be careful with the stuff the first time you cross paths--your tipsy tip for the day. (Soju is the devil!)

18Hurts is offline  
post #60 of 135 Old 03-28-2018, 07:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtbdudex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 1482
OP;
Do you like to self-educate?
I suggest you read this book ....

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sound Reproduction 3rd.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	62.9 KB
ID:	2381666  
unretarded and Lonewolf7002 like this.
mtbdudex is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off