2019 audiophiles vs 2002 audiophiles? What matters most now for sound quality? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-08-2019, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys.

So back in the day, around 2002, I owned a pretty nice home theater. It consisted of NHT 3.3 speakers, a high-end Denon receiver, a high-powered 2-channel amplifier, fancy speaker wire, a DVD audio player, and expensive interconnects, monster Cable power conditioner and so forth.

It sounded really awesome to my ears.

In that era, it seemed to me like the general consensus on the internet was that every little thing in your audio setup mattered a great deal!!

People said it was worth it to spend a lot of money on interconnects, speaker wire, power conditioners, and so forth. Bi-amplifying your speakers was highly recommended, even going so far as to choose different amplifiers for your high-pass and low-pass. Even minor differences, such as a silver vs copper interconnect could make a noticable difference in your sound quality. It was also a given that more expensive amplifiers would sound better than cheaper ones, and different receivers would sound better than other receivers and so forth!


With my brief return to audio in 2019, it seems like the consensus from what I've seen is now the generally the opposite. People recommend buying generic copper speaker wire, using cheap HDMI interconnects for everything, and saying that all receivers sound the same. I have read more than a few comments saying that a cheapie generic Onkyo receiver will sound basically the same as a high-end Denon receiver, amps are useless, speaker wire makes no difference, or that bi-amplifying your speakers is a complete waste of time.

Both of these schools of thought cannot be true. What gives?

Either these things matter, or they don't.

Can anyone get a general rundown on what's the consensus of what matters most and your home theater sound quality, down to what matters least?

I do presume that it is possible that people were more picky at one time than they are today and that preferences have changed.... Or perhaps now in the digital era, certain things matter less, or have to shown to be less important.

I would just like to hear some educated opinions on the matter.

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post #2 of 24 Old 05-08-2019, 12:25 PM
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As far as self-proclaimed "audiophile"-ism goes, the general thinking still seems to be "spend a lot of money" (and the more the better). If you're willing to forego the "cachet" that accompanies that self-proclamation, great sound can be had for a more-reasonable sum of money.

IMO. YMMV, of course.
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-08-2019, 02:32 PM
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In the past 17 years came the rise of free videos on youtube, information concerning cables etc., HDMI becoming the standard for BluRay and so on.

To get the info on cables etc.--here is a information site that discusses that very thing, what you need and what you don't.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

If you want a few videos to watch to bring you up to snuff, here is one from AES (Audio Engineering Society) even has comments from Dolby Labs to clear the air


More inforation how audio/video systems are designed and proper setup from Dr. Toole who used to be the head hancho at the Canadian National Reserch Center and Harman International


Other engineering folks have tested amps, DACs and other things and did blind ABX testing to see what matters and what does not.

These days you also have the option to measure actual room response with a laptop, a free program called REW(Room EQ Wizard) so now to test--not guess. $100 for a microphone and you can have many screens of information to get every detail.

As far as snake oill goes, if people will buy it somebody willl provide it. This is the same in all fields be it audio with $300,000 record players to fashion with $15,000 purses. If you want to learn about the latest in $250 audiophile fuses, 6moons will hook you up! They will battle if the fuse "sounds better" with 10 hours of "burn in" VS 100 hours of "burn in" (believe it!)

The last factor is the domination of online shopping VS limited shopping back in 2002. Audio only places are not very common so no salesmen to push cables, power conditioners, power cords, cable lifters, audiophile fuses, cable lifters and that sort of thing when the item is purchased. Amazon don't tell you you "need" $300 pieces of wire with the purchase of your speakers--you just click and go.

Welcome back after 17 years, enjoy the videos and information to bring you up to speed. If you want to geek out, get a calibrated microphone, download REW and have a good time! Enjoy!
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post #4 of 24 Old 05-08-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Hey guys.

So back in the day, around 2002, I owned a pretty nice home theater. It consisted of NHT 3.3 speakers, a high-end Denon receiver, a high-powered 2-channel amplifier, fancy speaker wire, a DVD audio player, and expensive interconnects, monster Cable power conditioner and so forth.

It sounded really awesome to my ears.

I do presume that it is possible that people were more picky at one time than they are today and that preferences have changed.... Or perhaps now in the digital era, certain things matter less, or have to shown to be less important.

I would just like to hear some educated opinions on the matter.
People back then had less readily available information than today as already pointed out.

So it is a bit harder for the snake oil sales people to pull one over on Joe Consumer.

I actually think that today when it comes to Home Theater, people are more picky as smaller players have helped deliver quality gear at lower price points, (especially when it comes to subwoofers), so no need to to pay up for brand names in many instances.

Here is a list of mostly smaller speaker and sub vendors for example.

ACCESSORIES 4 LESS*** NEAR ORLANDO FLORIDA
APERION* NEAR PORTLAND OREGON
ASCEND** NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
CHANE TAMPA FLORIDA
CRUTCHFIELD*** CHARLOTTESVILLE VIRGINIA
DEEP SEA SOUND SUBS NEAR KNOXVILLE TENNESSEE
DIYSOUND GROUP CINCINNATI OHIO
EMOTIVA NEAR NASHVILLE TENNESSEE
HSU NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
HTD* NEAR DALLAS TEXAS
JTR NEAR MILWAUKEE WISCONSIN
NHT NEAR SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA
OHM BROOKLYN NEW YORK
PSA NEAR YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
RBH NEAR SALT LAKE CITY UTAH
RHYTHMIK SUBS NEAR AUSTIN TEXAS
RSL* NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
SALK AUDIO PONTIAC MICHIGAN
SEATON SOUND NEAR CHICAGO ILLINOIS
SELAH AUDIO NEAR RALEIGH NORTH CAROLINA
SVS* YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
TEKTON NEAR PROVO UTAH
TRIAD PORTLAND OREGON
TYLER ACOUSTICS NEAR LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY
WORLDWIDE STEREO*** NEAR PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA

CANADIAN MANUFACTURERS
AXIOM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FLUANCE NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FUNK AUDIO NEAR VANCOUVER CANADA
PARADIGM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
PSB NEAR TORONTO CANADA
TOTEM NEAR MONTREAL CANADA
* free return shipping
**Ascend also carries Rhythmik subwoofers on site
***retail outlet of many brands
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-08-2019, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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So about a week ago I purchased some Polk LsiM 703 bookshelf speakers, without hearing them first, just based on internet reviews.

This is my first foray into owning home theater speakers again since 2002, and I'm wondering if I made a good choice or not.

I had heard good things about the Polk LsiM line, as something newly produced that was basically entry level audiophile gear, without breaking the bank. Is this true,or marketing hype?

I paid $300 a piece, which seemed like a fair /good value for quality bookshelf speakers.

Can anyone comment whether those speakers are considered good by 2019 standards? Or is there something better I should look for the same money... Or something slightly more expensive which sounds exponentially better?

I have never owned Polk speakers before 2019... but I am aware now that there are a zillion internet direct speaker brands.

Also, I wanted to start my foray back into audio using a quality home AV receiver. Back in 2002, Denon seemed like the king of the receivers.

Is something like the x3500 or x4500 a solid choice, or is there something equal or superior for the price? I have always owned Denon receivers and had good luck with them.
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post #6 of 24 Old 05-08-2019, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
So about a week ago I purchased some Polk LsiM 703 bookshelf speakers, without hearing them first, just based on internet reviews.

This is my first foray into owning home theater speakers again since 2002, and I'm wondering if I made a good choice or not.

I had heard good things about the Polk LsiM line, as something newly produced that was basically entry level audiophile gear, without breaking the bank. Is this true,or marketing hype?

I paid $300 a piece, which seemed like a fair /good value for quality bookshelf speakers.

Can anyone comment whether those speakers are considered good by 2019 standards? Or is there something better I should look for the same money... Or something slightly more expensive which sounds exponentially better?

I have never owned Polk speakers before 2019... but I am aware now that there are a zillion internet direct speaker brands.

Also, I wanted to start my foray back into audio using a quality home AV receiver. Back in 2002, Denon seemed like the king of the receivers.

Is something like the x3500 or x4500 a solid choice, or is there something equal or superior for the price? I have always owned Denon receivers and had good luck with them.
Compare the measurements of your very nice speakers to all the big names listed here and you will see they measure up very well so great job getting some great speakers for little money.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=16&Itemid=140

I'm partial to Denon and the 4500 is worth the extra 60% price jump if you are considering 5.1.4 or even 7.1.4 with an additional amp.

Other than that they are essentially identical.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-08-2019, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
These days you also have the option to measure actual room response with a laptop, a free program called REW(Room EQ Wizard) so now to test--not guess. $100 for a microphone and you can have many screens of information to get every detail.
These days learning how to jockey REW has become somewhat unnecessary, as many AVRs will do the measuring and correcting for you -- something only pro units did back in 2002. On many Yamaha AVRs, for example, this "correction" system, which corrects for major room anomalies and many speaker irregularities, also allows for a third-octave PEQ equalizer which is quite powerful in its ability to tailor your audio to taste over and above any recommended "correction."

Since multichannel audio is now carried mostly thru HDMI, current AVRs rarely possess discrete analog inputs for each channel -- a useful feature for those configuring an unusual system that could use extra amplifier channels. So, if you have one of those older units that has them, hang on to it.

Speakers, despite a lot of handwaving, haven't changed very much. If you have speakers that you liked before, you might still like them, but promiscuity in loudspeaker coveting is even more common nowadays -- a trait that I attribute to the modern phenomenon of FOMO.

One interesting development is the availability of entry-level pro PA speakers for home theater use that, due to offshore manufacturing and injection-molded plastic enclosures, are now lightweight and very affordable. Another home theater-centric trend, especially among the DIY crowd, is the purchase or, more often, fabrication of large, very-long-throw subwoofers powered by kilowatt amplifiers capable of output below 30 Hz. This may not hold much interest for music, but if you like your explosions more explosive, you might look into this further on the Subwoofer and DIY forums here.
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 05:10 AM
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If you want to know if you have the best sounding speakers, you have to compare them to other speakers in the same room until you find the best .

If you just want decent speakers at a decent price, buy online and then never think about it again.
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post #9 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Hey guys.

So back in the day, around 2002, I owned a pretty nice home theater. It consisted of NHT 3.3 speakers, a high-end Denon receiver, a high-powered 2-channel amplifier, fancy speaker wire, a DVD audio player, and expensive interconnects, monster Cable power conditioner and so forth.

It sounded really awesome to my ears.

In that era, it seemed to me like the general consensus on the internet was that every little thing in your audio setup mattered a great deal!!

People said it was worth it to spend a lot of money on interconnects, speaker wire, power conditioners, and so forth. Bi-amplifying your speakers was highly recommended, even going so far as to choose different amplifiers for your high-pass and low-pass. Even minor differences, such as a silver vs copper interconnect could make a noticable difference in your sound quality. It was also a given that more expensive amplifiers would sound better than cheaper ones, and different receivers would sound better than other receivers and so forth!


With my brief return to audio in 2019, it seems like the consensus from what I've seen is now the generally the opposite. People recommend buying generic copper speaker wire, using cheap HDMI interconnects for everything, and saying that all receivers sound the same. I have read more than a few comments saying that a cheapie generic Onkyo receiver will sound basically the same as a high-end Denon receiver, amps are useless, speaker wire makes no difference, or that bi-amplifying your speakers is a complete waste of time.

Both of these schools of thought cannot be true. What gives?

Either these things matter, or they don't.

Can anyone get a general rundown on what's the consensus of what matters most and your home theater sound quality, down to what matters least?

I do presume that it is possible that people were more picky at one time than they are today and that preferences have changed.... Or perhaps now in the digital era, certain things matter less, or have to shown to be less important.

I would just like to hear some educated opinions on the matter.

Disclaimer: I'm a lifelong subjectivist audiophile. Boo goes the chorus here at AVS, I'm proud to say.

However, in the midfi world of today, you can end up with a pretty decent sounding / performing system easily with what's available as almost all of it is pretty good. I'm not saying that there aren't poor choices, but the average has come up quite a bit in the last 17 years. GajCa has pointed you in several good direction.

However, if you're playing in the truly high-end world and have a system that resolves well enough, lots of individual choices matter and can be audible. However, high-end prices are in the range of 10x higher than they were 20 years or so ago. Industrial design and art have become a major factor in the high-end world as you can see from many of my pics from AXPONA 2019 last month.

http://s710.photobucket.com/user/sco.../2019%20Axpona

I can't play in that world anymore being old and heading toward 'fixed income'. What I used to be able to do in a system for $150,000 or so to play at the very top end of the market can easily be $600,000 - $1,000,000 today. Sorry, I'm out and am now a value shopper.

I'm mean, look at some of these prices that were posted on systems at AXPONA, and remember that neither of these include the analog front end. So add $80,000 for a VAC phono stage, $200,000 for a table, $40,000 or so for an arm and $15,000 to $20,000 for a top notch cart. and you're getting close to 3/4 million. I'm toast … all done.
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post #10 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Disclaimer: I'm a lifelong subjectivist audiophile. Boo goes the chorus here at AVS, I'm proud to say.

However, in the midfi world of today, you can end up with a pretty decent sounding / performing system easily with what's available as almost all of it is pretty good. I'm not saying that there aren't poor choices, but the average has come up quite a bit in the last 17 years. GajCa has pointed you in several good direction.

However, if you're playing in the truly high-end world and have a system that resolves well enough, lots of individual choices matter and can be audible. However, high-end prices are in the range of 10x higher than they were 20 years or so ago. Industrial design and art have become a major factor in the high-end world as you can see from many of my pics from AXPONA 2019 last month.

http://s710.photobucket.com/user/sco.../2019%20Axpona

I can't play in that world anymore being old and heading toward 'fixed income'. What I used to be able to do in a system for $150,000 or so to play at the very top end of the market can easily be $600,000 - $1,000,000 today. Sorry, I'm out and am now a value shopper.

I'm mean, look at some of these prices that were posted on systems at AXPONA, and remember that neither of these include the analog front end. So add $80,000 for a VAC phono stage, $200,000 for a table, $40,000 or so for an arm and $15,000 to $20,000 for a top notch cart. and you're getting close to 3/4 million. I'm toast … all done.



I don't blame you.

However, I have never looked at any audio system costing $100k or more, and I will probably never consider one costing that much (unless somehow I become massively wealthy, where that is pocketchange for me)


In 2002, I thought "high-end" meant NHT 3.3 speakers which retailed for $4,000 a pair, but supposedly could challenge speakers costing upto 4x the price. I don't know if that's true, but I've always favored value over elitism.


My top-end budget for a whole system is probably $10k-20k (of retail value), but I'd like to pay less than that by finding used equipment, or buying them on sale. I'd like to achieve whatever the best sound that price range is capable of. I'd like to believe (hope) that is very impressive, and that beyond such a point lies truly diminishing returns.


Am I delusional here?


Let's just add this up quickly, for MSRP:
  1. Polk M707 pair $4000
  2. Polk M703 pair $1500
  3. Polk M706c $1000
  4. Top quality sub $1500
  5. Denon AVR $1500
  6. Emotiva power amp $1500
  7. quality Bluray/media $500
The total here is only $11,500. For a nice 5.1 system with extra amp. Is this "garbage" compared to something truly high end?
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post #11 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
I don't blame you.

However, I have never looked at any audio system costing $100k or more, and I will probably never consider one costing that much (unless somehow I become massively wealthy, where that is pocketchange for me)


In 2002, I thought "high-end" meant NHT 3.3 speakers which retailed for $4,000 a pair, but supposedly could challenge speakers costing upto 4x the price. I don't know if that's true, but I've always favored value over elitism.


My top-end budget for a whole system is probably $10k-20k (of retail value), but I'd like to pay less than that by finding used equipment, or buying them on sale. I'd like to achieve whatever the best sound that price range is capable of. I'd like to believe (hope) that is very impressive, and that beyond such a point lies truly diminishing returns.


Am I delusional here?


Let's just add this up quickly, for MSRP:
  1. Polk M707 pair $4000
  2. Polk M703 pair $1500
  3. Polk M706c $1000
  4. Top quality sub $1500
  5. Denon AVR $1500
  6. Emotiva power amp $1500
  7. quality Bluray/media $500
The total here is only $11,500. For a nice 5.1 system with extra amp. Is this "garbage" compared to something truly high end?
You might want to continue looking at speakers further.
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post #12 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
You might want to continue looking at speakers further.

To examine what? In a comparable price range
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
To examine what? In a comparable price range

There's probably 50 - 75 choices. Goeff @gajCA might have more specific ideas. I play with mostly dipoles so I'm not the best source for cone and domes in a box recommendations .
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post #14 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
I don't blame you.

However, I have never looked at any audio system costing $100k or more, and I will probably never consider one costing that much (unless somehow I become massively wealthy, where that is pocketchange for me)


In 2002, I thought "high-end" meant NHT 3.3 speakers which retailed for $4,000 a pair, but supposedly could challenge speakers costing upto 4x the price. I don't know if that's true, but I've always favored value over elitism.


My top-end budget for a whole system is probably $10k-20k (of retail value), but I'd like to pay less than that by finding used equipment, or buying them on sale. I'd like to achieve whatever the best sound that price range is capable of. I'd like to believe (hope) that is very impressive, and that beyond such a point lies truly diminishing returns.


Am I delusional here?


Let's just add this up quickly, for MSRP:
  1. Polk M707 pair $4000
  2. Polk M703 pair $1500
  3. Polk M706c $1000
  4. Top quality sub $1500
  5. Denon AVR $1500
  6. Emotiva power amp $1500
  7. quality Bluray/media $500
The total here is only $11,500. For a nice 5.1 system with extra amp. Is this "garbage" compared to something truly high end?
Floyd Toole opined that a pair of tower speakers in the price range you describe is where diminishing returns starts to set in; in other words big gains up to about your price point and far smaller ones thereafter.

My current 5.1 is about 10 years old and the MSRP were around $2000 for the front three, $4500 for the sub, $500 for the AVR, $500 for the rears and maybe $250 for the BluRay player so around $8000.

I think I could replicate similar quality for half that today.

But I have no desire to "upgrade" despite having more than enough money to do so.

The AVR will fail at some point and the new one will likely have far better in room EQ.

The sub amp will likely fail again at some point but I'll just get it repaired again unless servo system parts become unavailable and then I'd just replace that single sealed 15" DD15 sub with two 12" Rhythmiks for around $2000 or so.

Here are well regarded boutique manufacturers to look at if one is in your area to swing by and listen to what they have to offer.

ACCESSORIES 4 LESS*** NEAR ORLANDO FLORIDA
APERION* NEAR PORTLAND OREGON
ASCEND** NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
CHANE TAMPA FLORIDA
CRUTCHFIELD*** CHARLOTTESVILLE VIRGINIA
DEEP SEA SOUND SUBS NEAR KNOXVILLE TENNESSEE
DIYSOUND GROUP CINCINNATI OHIO
EMOTIVA NEAR NASHVILLE TENNESSEE
HSU NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
HTD* NEAR DALLAS TEXAS
JTR NEAR MILWAUKEE WISCONSIN
NHT NEAR SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA
OHM BROOKLYN NEW YORK
PSA NEAR YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
RBH NEAR SALT LAKE CITY UTAH
RHYTHMIK SUBS NEAR AUSTIN TEXAS
RSL* NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
SALK AUDIO PONTIAC MICHIGAN
SEATON SOUND NEAR CHICAGO ILLINOIS
SELAH AUDIO NEAR RALEIGH NORTH CAROLINA
SVS* YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
TEKTON NEAR PROVO UTAH
TRIAD PORTLAND OREGON
TYLER ACOUSTICS NEAR LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY
WORLDWIDE STEREO*** NEAR PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA

CANADIAN MANUFACTURERS
AXIOM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FLUANCE NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FUNK AUDIO NEAR VANCOUVER CANADA
PARADIGM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
PSB NEAR TORONTO CANADA
TOTEM NEAR MONTREAL CANADA
* free return shipping
**Ascend also carries Rhythmik subwoofers on site
***retail outlet of many brands

Geoff A. J., California
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post #15 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 12:16 PM
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And one that I was pretty well blown away by at AXPONA was the new Dynaudio Evoke 50 at $5k per pair. It was nearly my favorite sound of the show (other than the $650 Maghepan LRSs)
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post #16 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Floyd Toole opined that a pair of tower speakers in the price range you describe is where diminishing returns starts to set in; in other words big gains up to about your price point and far smaller ones thereafter.

My current 5.1 is about 10 years old and the MSRP were around $2000 for the front three, $4500 for the sub, $500 for the AVR, $500 for the rears and maybe $250 for the BluRay player so around $8000.

I think I could replicate similar quality for half that today.

But I have no desire to "upgrade" despite having more than enough money to do so.

The AVR will fail at some point and the new one will likely have far better in room EQ.

The sub amp will likely fail again at some point but I'll just get it repaired again unless servo system parts become unavailable and then I'd just replace that single sealed 15" DD15 sub with two 12" Rhythmiks for around $2000 or so.

Here are well regarded boutique manufacturers to look at if one is in your area to swing by and listen to what they have to offer.

ACCESSORIES 4 LESS*** NEAR ORLANDO FLORIDA
APERION* NEAR PORTLAND OREGON
ASCEND** NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
CHANE TAMPA FLORIDA
CRUTCHFIELD*** CHARLOTTESVILLE VIRGINIA
DEEP SEA SOUND SUBS NEAR KNOXVILLE TENNESSEE
DIYSOUND GROUP CINCINNATI OHIO
EMOTIVA NEAR NASHVILLE TENNESSEE
HSU NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
HTD* NEAR DALLAS TEXAS
JTR NEAR MILWAUKEE WISCONSIN
NHT NEAR SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA
OHM BROOKLYN NEW YORK
PSA NEAR YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
RBH NEAR SALT LAKE CITY UTAH
RHYTHMIK SUBS NEAR AUSTIN TEXAS
RSL* NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
SALK AUDIO PONTIAC MICHIGAN
SEATON SOUND NEAR CHICAGO ILLINOIS
SELAH AUDIO NEAR RALEIGH NORTH CAROLINA
SVS* YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
TEKTON NEAR PROVO UTAH
TRIAD PORTLAND OREGON
TYLER ACOUSTICS NEAR LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY
WORLDWIDE STEREO*** NEAR PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA

CANADIAN MANUFACTURERS
AXIOM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FLUANCE NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FUNK AUDIO NEAR VANCOUVER CANADA
PARADIGM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
PSB NEAR TORONTO CANADA
TOTEM NEAR MONTREAL CANADA
* free return shipping
**Ascend also carries Rhythmik subwoofers on site
***retail outlet of many brands



The only ones near me would be the HTD group in Dallas, TX. Their prices seem good.



I know nothing about those speakers. Are they any good?


The rest of them I could order from the internet, and try them out with free returns, but it would be very time consuming. I was hoping get some specific recommendations from people who have already done some legwork, since these speakers have been out for 7-9 years.
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post #17 of 24 Old 05-10-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
The only ones near me would be the HTD group in Dallas, TX. Their prices seem good.



I know nothing about those speakers. Are they any good?


The rest of them I could order from the internet, and try them out with free returns, but it would be very time consuming. I was hoping get some specific recommendations from people who have already done some legwork, since these speakers have been out for 7-9 years.

You have three Dynaudio dealers relatively near you

https://www.dynaudio.com/find-dealer
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post #18 of 24 Old 05-11-2019, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
The only ones near me would be the HTD group in Dallas, TX. Their prices seem good.



I know nothing about those speakers. Are they any good?


The rest of them I could order from the internet, and try them out with free returns, but it would be very time consuming. I was hoping get some specific recommendations from people who have already done some legwork, since these speakers have been out for 7-9 years.
Many happy AVS owners.

Would they be better than you current speakers?

I have no idea but as they are close by you wouldn't have to pay return shipping.

The excellent Rhythmik subwoofer company is near you as well.

Those subs are state of the art.
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post #19 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 10:56 AM
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.... and why no discussion on room acoustics, having a plan, a strategy, and then applying appropriate treatments?
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post #20 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 12:26 PM
 
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Buy quality. It doesnt have to be expensive. Cheap imports, pass. Quality cables like Kabledirekt, Blue Jeans, Audioquest etc. are ok by me.

For AV receivers, Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, chose your poison. In these brands, options are where its at. Buy what you want.
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post #21 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 08:36 PM
 
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Internet search found this. Not sure if it helps.

Re: Where to go listen to audio gear in Dallas, TX?

THE AUDIO GUY, LLC
P.O. BOX 270278
FLOWER MOUND, TX 75028
(972) 874-9309
http://audioguydfw.com/default.aspx

Home Theater Concepts
208 North Highway 377
Roanoke, TX 76262
(817) 491-4144
http://hometheaterconcepts.com

RENAISSANCE AUDIO VIDEO
4635 WESTSIDE DR.
DALLAS, TX 75209
(214) 520-7500
http://www.renaissanceav.com/

MYHOMEDIA
2901 NORTH CENTRAL EXPRESSWAY
#102
PLANO, TX 75075
(469) 361-6619
http://www.myhomedia.com

Audio Systems ARCAM
1102 West Koenig Lane http://www.audiosystems.com/
Austin, TX 78756 512-451-5736

Whetstone Audio Acoustic Energy
6800 Kings Point West http://www.whetstoneaudio.com/
Austin, TX 78723 512-477-8503

NE Plus Ultra dCS
P.O. Box 26736
Austin, TX 78755 512-241-0000

Home Theater Design Group Acoustic Energy
3216 Commander Drive, Suite 104 http://www.h-t-d.com/
Carrollton, TX 75006 972-250-3440

Audio Concepts - Dallas ARCAM - Acoustic Energy
11661 Preston Road, #139 http://www.dalaudioconcepts.com/
Dallas, TX 75230 214-360-9520

Krystal Clear Audio Video dCS
1626B Hi Line Drive http://www.kcaudio.com/
Dallas, TX 75207 214-520-7156

Home Cinema & Sound Acoustic Energy
7408 Centenary Avenue
Dallas, TX 75225 214-691-1263

Audio Concepts - Houston ARCAM - Acoustic Energy - dCS
2200 S.W. Freeway, Ste. #105 http://www.audio-concepts.com/
Houston, TX 77098 713-527-0774

Concert Sound ARCAM - Acoustic Energy
5313 McCullough Avenue
San Antonio, TX 78212 210-821-6648

http://www.hometheaterstore.com/locations.asp
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post #22 of 24 Old 05-19-2019, 06:00 PM
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haha...omg I cannot believe I found this thread.

I used to sell home theater from 1997-2002 @ The Good Guys!.

I just signed a contract to build a brand new home and am in need of some home theater assistance and will be posting a thread to inquire for some soon!

Mannnn oh man did I have an AMAZING home theater setup all at accommodation pricing (less than dealer cost directly through the manufacturer).

Let me see if I can find some pics from 2001 when I had full Energy Veritas surrounds.....

I am really liking the new Sonos AMP and in-ceiling speaker option for all of my rooms, btw....
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post #23 of 24 Old 05-22-2019, 11:22 AM
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50% of the sound your hear is the room
40% are the speakers & subs
9.9% for DACs/amps/pre's
0.1% everything else

Spend accordingly.

Based on that I would start by buying a CSL UMIK-1 & REW that way you can measure changes/stuff, and then start reading about room treatments; and don't accept the first article you read as the word of god either, you should read 50 articles and draw a conclusion based on the best points across all of them.

House insulation actually works great as a cheap absorber, their coefficients are near 100% from 128hz on up.
Panels can be hidden behind printed murals / AT fabric.

As for speakers you'll have to audition that stuff yourself. Again, don't just buy the first speaker you like, visit multiple shops and/or attend HT meets and audio events (if/when possible.)

The electronics today are FAR better than electronics of the 80's. More and more Class-D amps are beating the best Class A/AB/H amps now.
The variances and tolerances are tighter, bandwidths are higher. We have lossless formats like Dolby/DTS HD which is immune to read-errors and transport jitter.
With HDMI either all the bits and packets make it across or you get a signal-unsupported error etc.

Nearly all DAC's are well-beyond human hearing capabilities now, and some approaching a full 24Bit SNR too!
Even the cheapest AVR today seems to be flat from 2hz to 21khz (or better) and 100db SNR (or better).

Do sales and marketing people still lie? Is there still poop and snake-oil out there? Absolutely... (Thus: stay on your toes.)

The only thing you can TRUST is your OWN ears and eyes and mind, but even those can be TRICKED.
You don't know what you don't know, it takes experience to know things, and lots of it...
Keep a wise head, don't just blindly believe the first thing you see, read or hear.
Opinions are like rump-holes... everyone has one!
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post #24 of 24 Old 05-25-2019, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
The AVR will fail at some point and the new one will likely have far better in room EQ.
Depends on the manufacturer. Audyssey XT32 was in Denon 4311 almost a decade ago. Today, the latest Denon still has XT32. I wonder how far has AccuEQ advanced.
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