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post #1 of 17 Old 05-20-2019, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Starting From Scratch

I have been researching, researching and researching some more. I am at an information overload, and with my "it's only a few more dollars for this!" mindset I think it's time to reassess my situation. I want to build my first home theater set up but i'm running into a couple of roadblocks. Originally I wanted to build towards a solid 7.2.4 set up a little at a time. I understand the theory and I love figuring out the best way to do things, which has lead me to believe I don't think I could feasibly do this with the space I have in my living room. I have begun to throw around the idea of converting my office to a theater room, but it is rather small.

The Contenders:
Living Room:
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Pro's:
Larger space for more people
Where I originally wanted to put the TV (LG C8 65")

Con's:
Would need to ceiling mount sides and rears which would be bad for Atmos. No room for speaker stands due to walkway and windows.
May have to settle for 3.1 or 5.1/7.1 with no Atmos with sides and surrounds high up. (Concerned with surround quality in this scenario)
Room Characteristics - Brighter during the day / wood floors / larger open walkways

Office: slightly less than 12 x 12
Pro's:
Room Characteristics - One window I can cover / carpet / basically a square
A couple feet behind the couch for surrounds (I think) all speakers could be ear level or slightly above with Atmos above.

Con's:
Might be too small of an area for 7.x
Couch may be pretty centered in room
3 maybe 4 people max would probably be all that would fit. Can't use my new nice TV to entertain people in a room this small, but I'd sure enjoy it.

My main goal is to get the most out of my money. I don't want to spend tons of money on a system when I can't take advantage of it. If my best option is the living room and it can't do 7.2.4 then i don't need the 11 channel capable amp that I want so bad. But if the Office would work than I could slowly build up the pieces in the living room until I have them all and make the switch to the office.

So I feel I have a few options:
1. Settle for something more appropriate for my living room. Perhaps get a higher quality smaller AVR with nicer speakers.
2. Run Ceiling mount speakers and get 7.2 with no Atmos.
3. Run 7.2.4 in the smaller room.

All of these options would lead to different choices in hardware. Any thoughts concerns or experiences would be appreciated. I know that my next house will have a better suited dedicated theater room for sure. Perhaps the first option can be the begging of a nice system for the next one, although that is years away. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 17 Old 05-20-2019, 03:28 PM
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Option 1. Clearly, you do not have the situation where you can go all out on a 7.2.4 set-up. In this case, less is more. Start small, with 5.1 (or even 3.1) and then re-evaluate later. This will save you a ton on a receiver and a boatload on speakers. Given how close you are sitting, you should not need huge or "efficient" speakers. Invest in a smaller set-up, RSL or Q Acoustics, or something of that ilk. If you eventually decide to upgrade, they can be used for surrounds or stereo speakers in another room (like that office). If you have to invest in something, get two subs (one in front, one in back), maybe an RSL, HSU, or Rythmik and a miniDSP 2x4 to tune them properly.

You might also consider putting the TV/speakers on the long wall (left side of the pic), which would be more conducive to a "larger" set-up and entertaining a group.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 05-20-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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post #3 of 17 Old 05-20-2019, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Option 1. Clearly, you do not have the situation where you can go all out on a 7.2.4 set-up. In this case, less is more. Start small, with 5.1 (or even 3.1) and then re-evaluate later. This will save you a ton on a receiver and a boatload on speakers. Given how close you are sitting, you should not need huge or "efficient" speakers. Invest in a smaller set-up, RSL or Q Acoustics, or something of that ilk. If you eventually decide to upgrade, they can be used for surrounds or stereo speakers in another room (like that office). If you have to invest in something, get two subs (one in front, one in back), maybe an RSL, HSU, or Rythmik and a miniDSP 2x4 to tune them properly.

You might also consider putting the TV/speakers on the long wall (left side of the pic), which would be more conducive to a "larger" set-up and entertaining a group.
Thanks for the advice. That long wall is all windows, I should have put that on the picture. Considering I was looking at the Onkyo 830, would you still recommend that as a receiver considering its value and features? Or would a denon / yamaha that processes less channels but is a similar price be a better option? I see some of the smaller channel amps loose features from the higher end models. I like the idea of putting most of my budget into speakers to use in a future set up and upgrading the AVR then, but wouldn't want to miss out on other useful features. For what it's worth I was looking to spend ~$2000 on whatever I landed on at this time.
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post #4 of 17 Old 05-20-2019, 04:43 PM
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I am all for the idea of upgrading to a receiver that will suffice for now. Then, if you decide to upgrade again later, get the receiver that fits your needs at that moment (that way you do not have to be prescient!). As to which receiver, I am a fan of Marantz, Yamaha ("A" Series), and Denon, in that order. Find one that fits your needs now and is priced well. You could even go used, a quality non-Atmos model. Can't really go wrong with any of those. Onkyo has had some quality issues recently, so I would avoid them for now.

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Last edited by RayGuy; 05-20-2019 at 04:51 PM.
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post #5 of 17 Old 05-21-2019, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I just discovered the world of DIY speakers. I think I'll dive into that and see what best fits my living room space. Then I will know the exact specs I would need as far as receivers go. I would like to build up my theater the right way and the general consensus is I should pick speakers first before the receiver. The fact that I can build my own is really intriguing to me and right up my alley. I already have all the tools I would need to do this. Sounds like you get exceptional quality at a reasonable price for doing the work that I would find fun.
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post #6 of 17 Old 05-21-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeFlavor View Post
I just discovered the world of DIY speakers. I think I'll dive into that and see what best fits my living room space. Then I will know the exact specs I would need as far as receivers go. I would like to build up my theater the right way and the general consensus is I should pick speakers first before the receiver. The fact that I can build my own is really intriguing to me and right up my alley. I already have all the tools I would need to do this. Sounds like you get exceptional quality at a reasonable price for doing the work that I would find fun.
Yeah, but you can't send them back for a refund if you don't like them.

If you do decide to go with DIY, avoid the horn-based solutions. You do not need to take that route, given your seating distance. Stick with a smaller-sized solution, which will perform better in tight quarters (top-right corner).
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It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 05-21-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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post #7 of 17 Old 05-21-2019, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, but you can't send them back for a refund if you don't like them.

If you do decide to go with DIY, avoid the horn-based solutions. You do not need to take that route, given your seating distance. Stick with a smaller-sized solution, which will perform better in tight quarters (top-right corner).
You make a valid point. I suppose I need to do the research to see what size speakers I need regardless. I'll keep in mind they could become surrounds or office speakers like you suggested. I do like the idea of building my own but I should probably go listen to a few options somewhere around town. Thanks for all the advice, I appreciate it.
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post #8 of 17 Old 05-21-2019, 03:14 PM
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I was in this same situation around 2 years ago. I have a decent size family room that I was hoping could be also used as a theater room complete with projector and atmos. In the end, the room had so many problems acoustics wise that I settled for 5.2.2 in that room with front heights. I then focused my attention on building a dedicated but smaller room (13x12) but with a full on 9.6.6 atmos setup and 120" 2.35:1 screen. While I can only fit a few seats in the small room, more 99% of the time it will only be me and my family in there. It's not done yet but I'm already enjoying that smaller more much more than the family room.

So if there an option to do both, maybe consider that option.


Another option to consider may be rotating your setup so that the TV is in the wall opposite of where it is now.



BTW, all my speakers in both rooms are DIY.
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post #9 of 17 Old 05-21-2019, 03:59 PM
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On the 16.5 all is that an even 2.5 on each side? Why couldn't that be the tv wall. and what do the windows look like on the long wall? A small thin surround speaker might not look so bad if it could be placed on a frame somehow with some white flat speaker wire, there is probably something on the market that could work. Going atmos 5 or 7.1.4 is really the way to go if possible. Some real phone pics might get you more ideas.

Denon AVR-X6500h Klipsch RP-8000f RP-440C (4) RP-150MS sides in parallel RB-51 rears, 4 JBL C67P pendants for atmos, 2 monolith 12" subs
Epson 5040UB, Sony Ubp-X700, AC infintiy T9, Nvidia Shield, 142" 2.35 silver ticket screen
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post #10 of 17 Old 05-21-2019, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja00 View Post
I was in this same situation around 2 years ago. I have a decent size family room that I was hoping could be also used as a theater room complete with projector and atmos. In the end, the room had so many problems acoustics wise that I settled for 5.2.2 in that room with front heights. I then focused my attention on building a dedicated but smaller room (13x12) but with a full on 9.6.6 atmos setup and 120" 2.35:1 screen. While I can only fit a few seats in the small room, more 99% of the time it will only be me and my family in there. It's not done yet but I'm already enjoying that smaller more much more than the family room.

So if there an option to do both, maybe consider that option.


Another option to consider may be rotating your setup so that the TV is in the wall opposite of where it is now.



BTW, all my speakers in both rooms are DIY.
I like the idea of 5.2.2. I wonder how much having the sides mounted higher up will affect the Atmos speakers up front.

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Originally Posted by Stephen Dohring View Post
On the 16.5 all is that an even 2.5 on each side? Why couldn't that be the tv wall. and what do the windows look like on the long wall? A small thin surround speaker might not look so bad if it could be placed on a frame somehow with some white flat speaker wire, there is probably something on the market that could work. Going atmos 5 or 7.1.4 is really the way to go if possible. Some real phone pics might get you more ideas.
Pretty much the entire 17' wall is 3 windows that stretch from floor to almost the ceiling. The protruding part of the 16' wall is a fireplace, with doors on each side to hallways/bedrooms. I feel like the TV is stuck in the only good position.
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post #11 of 17 Old 05-22-2019, 01:58 PM
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Pretty much the entire 17' wall is 3 windows that stretch from floor to almost the ceiling. The protruding part of the 16' wall is a fireplace, with doors on each side to hallways/bedrooms. I feel like the TV is stuck in the only good position.
How about a motorized roll down screen on the long wall of windows and a projector?
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post #12 of 17 Old 05-24-2019, 01:29 PM
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A square room mathematically produces poor audio. For that reason, I would use the living room because it has some archways, and some of the walls are “broken up”.
As for the small room, I have heard some very impressive Home Theaters in small spaces. A good Subwoofer and some decent satellite speakers, configured properly, can make a convincing HT.

Espo77's living room equipment: RECEIVER: Yamaha RX-A3030- SPEAKERS: Boston Acoustics M350, M25 center, surrounds, and front heights-
BLU-RAY: Oppo BDP103D- SUBWOOFER: HSU VTF-15H MK2- dedicated circuits for A/V- TV: Vizio P55C-1
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post #13 of 17 Old 05-26-2019, 03:25 AM
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A square room mathematically produces poor audio. For that reason, I would use the living room because it has some archways, and some of the walls are “broken up”.
As for the small room, I have heard some very impressive Home Theaters in small spaces. A good Subwoofer and some decent satellite speakers, configured properly, can make a convincing HT.
A square room is still easy to fix though as it is pretty much only one frequency to sort out, just use more than one subwoofer (or be lucky with the placement) and some acoustic treatment.

I have been using a 12x12 room for the past 2 years and I have yet to feel the need to move beyond the single sub that is in a pretty good location. I will however at some stage get 4 smaller subs to make it optimal.


As for the OP, my HT is pretty much what you are suggesting in option 2, check the link in my signature.

Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
Input : Nvidia Shield TV, Panasonic DMP-UB400
Magic : Marantz SR7010, Marantz SR6010, 2x NAD T743
Output : Panasonic TX65EZ952B, SVS PB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GSLCR 2xGS20 2xGS10 4xGSFX 6xBX1
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post #14 of 17 Old 05-26-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeFlavor View Post
I just discovered the world of DIY speakers. I think I'll dive into that and see what best fits my living room space. Then I will know the exact specs I would need as far as receivers go. I would like to build up my theater the right way and the general consensus is I should pick speakers first before the receiver. The fact that I can build my own is really intriguing to me and right up my alley. I already have all the tools I would need to do this. Sounds like you get exceptional quality at a reasonable price for doing the work that I would find fun.
Audio-wise, your speakers are the most important factor, after the room. You up to that?
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post #15 of 17 Old 05-26-2019, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Audio-wise, your speakers are the most important factor, after the room. You up to that?
Definitely. I have been researching non stop and have settled on building a mini Marty. I'll use this to get a feel and see how I like it. I definitely want to build the sub myself and this seems like the way to go. For now I've settled on starting in the living room and potentially moving into the office at a later date when I have more pieces of the puzzle and if i'm not satisfied with what how it sounds in the living room.
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post #16 of 17 Old 05-26-2019, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
A square room is still easy to fix though as it is pretty much only one frequency to sort out, just use more than one subwoofer (or be lucky with the placement) and some acoustic treatment.

I have been using a 12x12 room for the past 2 years and I have yet to feel the need to move beyond the single sub that is in a pretty good location. I will however at some stage get 4 smaller subs to make it optimal.


As for the OP, my HT is pretty much what you are suggesting in option 2, check the link in my signature.
Wow that's an impressive setup you have there, If i knew i'd be here for another 10 years I'd definitely do something like that.
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post #17 of 17 Old 05-26-2019, 08:28 PM
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Definitely. I have been researching non stop and have settled on building a mini Marty. I'll use this to get a feel and see how I like it. I definitely want to build the sub myself and this seems like the way to go. For now I've settled on starting in the living room and potentially moving into the office at a later date when I have more pieces of the puzzle and if i'm not satisfied with what how it sounds in the living room.
Buy good drivers. Good luck!
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