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post #1 of 64 Old 07-15-2019, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Power cord blind test


What are your takes on this?
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post #2 of 64 Old 07-15-2019, 02:32 AM
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^^^ Won't play in US. This reminded me of something that happened here a while back - 12 years ago.

Power cord blind test: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...able-test.html

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post #3 of 64 Old 07-15-2019, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephan Mire View Post

Like PooperScooper said, won't play here in the U.S. - can you summarize it?

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post #4 of 64 Old 07-15-2019, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephan Mire View Post
Well the fact that it's on YouTube and not published in an esteemed technical journal should just about sum it up credibility wise!

BTW, a bone for you believers, that does work both ways. A shoddy test claiming power cords make no difference is equally suspect. But I'll still stick with the non-believers camp.
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post #5 of 64 Old 07-15-2019, 10:49 PM
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Well, here's a US viewable version

I'm skeptical purely because they expect the differences to survive YouTube audio encoding (at best, 128kbps AAC) and on skimming the video, they claim differences in how it sounds. If it's audible through YouTube, then it's definitely been processed to fakery.

Even the method they suggest of testing it is exactly wrong for a blind test.

But, like I said, I admit to skimming the video.
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post #6 of 64 Old 07-15-2019, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Like PooperScooper said, won't play here in the U.S. - can you summarize it?
I found the video--here iss the summary.

He used microphones and recorded his stereo and swapped out the power cords (ALL of the power cords) and took the recordings and uploaded them to youtube.

I figured that out then jumped to the end for his "advice" Basicallly, to get the best improvement you should change out all of the power cords for everything to get the best performance improvement.

The British pound to USD conversion rate is 1.25 a pound so the 4,000 pound power cords he tested would run us $5K each here in the states.

As far as listening to stereo systems recorded on microphones--we used to do that back in the mix tape cassette era. Sure! Hey man, I bought a new stereo...want to hear it? No worries my brother, I made a recording on cassette with microphones so enjoy! Happened all the time--as it it never happened--not once and you would get thrown out of the building if you did something like that. When I made my mix tapes, it was CD to tape in and I never thought of using microphones to record the CD... ever.

For some reason, some people believe that recording that way then compressing it on Youtube is an accurate way to check audio gear. Uhhhh.... yeah, listen to how amazing my speakers are on Youtube... I'll pass and avoid any channel that implies that doing that through Youtube helps with anything. Instant fail there!

The comments under his video do give me hope for humainity and their technical literacy--they ripped him a new body orifice! Along the lines of hey mate---you "fixed" my passive power cord problem for the last meter but what should I do about the 100 meters in the walls of my building and the miles of power lines going to the power company?

Other comments were more electrically related as it was explained WHY power cords don't matter, have never mattered and why they never will matter. A few comments about "your system does not resolve enough" and that sort of thing although I'm not sure what level of system you need to get the full, accurate Youtube videos right. I guess it must take thousands of pounds or something.

In the greater scheme of things, his "test" was very poorly done and Youtube and microphones recording are what you are listening to in reality. His very stronly implied conclusion is the more money you spend on power cords, the better sound you get as long as you replace all the power cords. He did not say if my router needed those power cords, does my laptop need one also? Throw another one on the AVR, the BluRay player and (of course) my two sub amps so I had better save up 30,000 dollars to replace them all.

Oh wait, I would not use an audiophile power cord even if it was free. I tend to believe actual electronic manufacturers and UL/CSA might know a bit more about the laws of electricity and what their equipment needs to get optimum performance. At the most, I might replace one when damaged with a hospital grade version to get better durability...maybe.

Blame all those physics, electronics and math classes... years of science classes have corrupted me!

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post #7 of 64 Old 07-16-2019, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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m. zillch, what are your thoughts on the video and testing procedures? Does it have any merit or?
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post #8 of 64 Old 07-16-2019, 03:46 AM
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M. Zillch is currently unable to take the bait.
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If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #9 of 64 Old 07-16-2019, 11:56 AM
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M. Zillch is currently unable to take the bait.
He may be out fishing himself.
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post #10 of 64 Old 07-16-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
<snip>
The comments under his video do give me hope for humainity and their technical literacy--they ripped him a new body orifice! Along the lines of hey mate---you "fixed" my passive power cord problem for the last meter but what should I do about the 100 meters in the walls of my building and the miles of power lines going to the power company? <snip>
Well, you know the familiar advocate refrain by now, i.e., "it's the first few feet that matter the most". Or sometimes it's described as, "the last few feet...", depending upon the chosen phraseology of the all-too-believing poster.
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post #11 of 64 Old 07-16-2019, 10:51 PM
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The real question is who is the guy working for that's bankrolling the video. Anytime you get something like this, it's almost always being done with money changing hands.
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post #12 of 64 Old 07-19-2019, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post

The comments under his video do give me hope for humainity and their technical literacy--they ripped him a new body orifice! Along the lines of hey mate---you "fixed" my passive power cord problem for the last meter but what should I do about the 100 meters in the walls of my building and the miles of power lines going to the power company?

I'm no supporter of expensive AC cables.


But the critique above is so common yet it seems to entirely miss the point about the claims for high end AC cables.


The idea is that they will cut down on/filter out noise and "purify" the signal, in some way. Now, this may certainly be bogus. But you don't really address that claim by pointing to the problem of all the wiring that comes before the AC cable, as that is the point of using the expensive AC cable. These manufacturers are the first to point to the "dirty power" that comes from your AC line, so their "fix" would take that in to account and have nothing to do with trying to fix all the power before the AC cable.


It's like critiquing a water filter on the basis it doesn't purify all the water in the pipes leading to your house. Well of course not; that's just misunderstanding the nature of a water filter. The point is the effects it has once water passes through it. Same...purportedly...for many high end AC cables.
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post #13 of 64 Old 07-20-2019, 12:56 AM
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Except power cables are power cables. If they filtered the line, they'd be a power filter. These don't claim that function, just that their special materials ensure the electrons pass through smoothly or some such.

Few people here have a problem with power conditioners - other than they might be overpriced for what they do. Or even just a surge protector.

This is more like buying a $1000 faucet because it will magically align the water molecules to give you superior cleaning ability.
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post #14 of 64 Old 07-20-2019, 01:27 AM
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If your having any doubts about the power cord that came with your gear, these heavy duty cords from Monoprice will fit the bill nicely.

I replaced the power cords on my 2 IoT power strips with these 15A 14AWG rated cables. They handle my pre/pro, DAC, and 5 Adcom power amps that are all switched by the pre/pro's triggers, that's a lot of instantaneous current so I thought it best to up the current handling capacity.

It cost me a whopping $5.00 x 2 plus shipping but I ate Ramen noodles for a few weeks and was able to offset the costs. LOL
Pretty nice heavy duty power cords actually.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5292

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post #15 of 64 Old 07-20-2019, 05:08 PM
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... just that their special materials ensure the electrons pass through smoothly or some such.

....
You mean you have not heard of that special electron jell infused copper for that smooth electron flow?
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post #16 of 64 Old 07-20-2019, 05:21 PM
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Audioquest

I just replaced my older AC Cables to my Theta Casablanca Processor as well as my Dreadnaught 6 challenge power amp. I was using the old AC cables that came with the equipment, each connected to a power conditioner via extension cords, as the AC Cables were not long enough to reach the Panamax.

Now using Audioquest power cables, and could not be happier with a warmer, more open sound
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post #17 of 64 Old 07-20-2019, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by stacy11 View Post
I just replaced my older AC Cables to my Theta Casablanca Processor as well as my Dreadnaught 6 challenge power amp. I was using the old AC cables that came with the equipment, each connected to a power conditioner via extension cords, as the AC Cables were not long enough to reach the Panamax.

Now using Audioquest power cables, and could not be happier with a warmer, more open sound

Try having someone switch between the old and the Audioquest power cables, without you knowing which is playing. Your impressions might change.

But you may not want that.
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post #18 of 64 Old 07-21-2019, 04:15 AM
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The new cables must address the poor quality of the power conditioner.
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post #19 of 64 Old 07-21-2019, 08:39 AM
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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but don't (at least decent quality) amps, pre-amps, DACs, etc., already have components inside them that "clean up" those rascally, mis-behaving electrons?
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post #20 of 64 Old 07-21-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but don't (at least decent quality) amps, pre-amps, DACs, etc., already have components inside them that "clean up" those rascally, mis-behaving electrons?
Only if your equipment is good enough to discern the audible benefits.



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post #21 of 64 Old 07-21-2019, 09:19 AM
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Only if your equipment is good enough to discern the audible benefits.

Yeah, dunno. I don't think my ears are good enough to discern the audible benefits, let alone the equipment.... Getting old sucks....
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post #22 of 64 Old 07-21-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephan Mire View Post
m. zillch, what are your thoughts on the video and testing procedures? Does it have any merit or?
His testing methodology is not adequately explained

How is this a "blind" test since he tells us A is "Freeby" [properly spelled freebie] and B is "Tellurium Q Statement Reference PRO Audiophile Grade Transparency Pure Direct Signature Master Class Excellence"?

Might the names influence us?

How do we know the minor changes aren't simply due to minor variances in session to session recordings? Was it recorded electrically or acoustically (a mic)?

Are the two power cables the same gauge?

In his own "blind" test did he get a 100% perfect score. . . in one out of one trials? [Heck, not to brag, but I get a perfect, 100% score about half of the time in my trials too! ]

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Back onboard (or on board).
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post #24 of 64 Old 07-21-2019, 02:55 PM
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but .... my walls are wired with this


AV rack has 2 12ga and 1 14ga circuit here



Per my plans here


So do tell how is a power cord is gonna change anything??
Seriously ... don't keep making PT Barnum correct.
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post #25 of 64 Old 07-21-2019, 03:08 PM
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but .... my walls are wired with this

AV rack has 2 12ga and 1 14ga circuit here

Per my plans here

So do tell how is a power cord is gonna change anything??
Seriously ... don't keep making PT Barnum correct.
You need to back up!! You forgot something:

https://gizmodo.com/obsessed-audioph...own-1785291714

https://wonderfulengineering.com/obs...io-experience/

Do this and ye shall be greatly rewarded....

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The whole appeal of these expensive wires is for someone to prove their hearing is better than yours. You didn't hear any difference then your hearing sucks.
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post #27 of 64 Old 07-22-2019, 02:41 AM
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You need to back up!! You forgot something:

https://gizmodo.com/obsessed-audioph...own-1785291714

https://wonderfulengineering.com/obs...io-experience/

Do this and ye shall be greatly rewarded....

Well that explains a lot ... I am on my own utility pole and transformer , underground from here to dual 200A circuit breaker boxes.



and get 124v consistently



When a squirrel decides to literally "fry itself" my power does go out, really, it's happened 7-8 times since I built in 2002.
You can see the breaker tripped here, utility guy comes out with his re-set pole and simply pushes that breaker back up and fixed, and we usually find the fried squirrel.

After same breaker is tripped 2-3 times then he replaces it.....
He tells me it's a common thing, I told him power company needs to re-design their circuit breaker to be squirrel proof ... guess there too much infrastructure already, and it's easy job security...


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post #28 of 64 Old 07-22-2019, 11:03 PM
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That's not a breaker. It's a fuse with explosive disconnect. Basically when the fuse blows, it sets off a bit of black powder that will shoot it off the connector. This ensures positive disconnection even in severe overload conditions (the fuse is sand filled, and it's not unusual for the sand to turn into glass - a heavy overload occurs, the fuse blows but the arc maintains the connection. The pyro charge is set off which aims to blow the fuse off the holder. Of course it doesn't fall to the ground but pivots away from the top contact.

It's why it sounds like a gun going off when it blows - because that's what's happening.

Breakers are dull looking grey boxes, often with a control panel closer to the ground. The control panel allows the lineman to open or close the breaker on the pole, but there is also a manual override on the breaker itself. You want these because they are known as re closers. Basically if the breaker trips, it will start a timer and after about a minute, it will reset itself. If it trips immediately then the breaker will stay off. If the fault clears (fried squirrel drops to the ground) then it will stay on. Re closers are why the power can go out, then briefly come on again before dying. It turns out a lot of faults simply clear themselves because the fried animal or branches or whatever stops shorting the lines and power can be turned on. Customers like it because it causes short outages rather than hours long ones, and utilities like it because it saves rolling a truck to investigate.
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post #29 of 64 Old 07-23-2019, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
That's not a breaker. It's a fuse with explosive disconnect. Basically when the fuse blows, it sets off a bit of black powder that will shoot it off the connector. This ensures positive disconnection even in severe overload conditions (the fuse is sand filled, and it's not unusual for the sand to turn into glass - a heavy overload occurs, the fuse blows but the arc maintains the connection. The pyro charge is set off which aims to blow the fuse off the holder. Of course it doesn't fall to the ground but pivots away from the top contact.

It's why it sounds like a gun going off when it blows - because that's what's happening.

Breakers are dull looking grey boxes, often with a control panel closer to the ground. The control panel allows the lineman to open or close the breaker on the pole, but there is also a manual override on the breaker itself. You want these because they are known as re closers. Basically if the breaker trips, it will start a timer and after about a minute, it will reset itself. If it trips immediately then the breaker will stay off. If the fault clears (fried squirrel drops to the ground) then it will stay on. Re closers are why the power can go out, then briefly come on again before dying. It turns out a lot of faults simply clear themselves because the fried animal or branches or whatever stops shorting the lines and power can be turned on. Customers like it because it causes short outages rather than hours long ones, and utilities like it because it saves rolling a truck to investigate.

This is not always the case in wildfire prone areas, such as California or Australia, where reclosers have been implicated in starting wildfires. The effect of the power outages can last for years or even forever, since lives may be lost, thousands of houses may need to be rebuilt, and damages run to billions of dollars.
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post #30 of 64 Old 07-23-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Breakers are dull looking grey boxes, often with a control panel closer to the ground. The control panel allows the lineman to open or close the breaker on the pole, but there is also a manual override on the breaker itself. You want these because they are known as re closers. Basically if the breaker trips, it will start a timer and after about a minute, it will reset itself. If it trips immediately then the breaker will stay off. If the fault clears (fried squirrel drops to the ground) then it will stay on. Re closers are why the power can go out, then briefly come on again before dying. It turns out a lot of faults simply clear themselves because the fried animal or branches or whatever stops shorting the lines and power can be turned on. Customers like it because it causes short outages rather than hours long ones, and utilities like it because it saves rolling a truck to investigate.
Not in my location. And the "reset" is located on a separate pole between two transformers and higher.
I watch them a few times every year.



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