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post #1 of 9 Old 07-20-2019, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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A noob question

Hello, I’m going to possibly make a fool of myself and just ask this.
I don’t understand the purpose room treatment and all the REW processes if I can just use audyssey xt 32. I have little room treatment and after using xt 32 I get a fairly flat FR. I would really like to expand my knowledge and understand why people invest so much in room treatment. I feel like I’m missing an obvious answer.
Logan


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post #2 of 9 Old 07-21-2019, 04:10 AM
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There is a lot audyssey cannot fix.
Its better to not have a problem that needs fixing in the first place.
Anything audyssey(and other EQ) try and fix is at the expense more or less of other frequencies.

Room treatment(incl. furniture etc.) also makes a room more pleasant and easier to talk with ppl in.


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post #3 of 9 Old 07-21-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totemtimer View Post
Hello, I’m going to possibly make a fool of myself and just ask this.
I don’t understand the purpose room treatment and all the REW processes if I can just use audyssey xt 32. I have little room treatment and after using xt 32 I get a fairly flat FR. I would really like to expand my knowledge and understand why people invest so much in room treatment. I feel like I’m missing an obvious answer.
Logan


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Using REW and Umik measures your room as does Audyssey.

Audyssey tries to EQ the speakers to fit their "room curve" but may or my not yield good results in a terribly bright room, (tile, concrete, glass etc), or in a terribly "dull" room, (heavy drapes, wall to wall carpeting, upholstered furniture), etc.

REW+Umik results might have you moving the positions of speakers/subs to tame peaks or using a MiniDSP or similar.

Personally the only room treatments I use are rugs and tapestries as Audyssey in my main room did a good job for me and a MiniDSP EQ'd with the help of REW and Umik did in my secondary room where my receiver has no on board EQ.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #4 of 9 Old 07-21-2019, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totemtimer View Post
Hello, I’m going to possibly make a fool of myself and just ask this.
I don’t understand the purpose room treatment and all the REW processes if I can just use audyssey xt 32. I have little room treatment and after using xt 32 I get a fairly flat FR. I would really like to expand my knowledge and understand why people invest so much in room treatment. I feel like I’m missing an obvious answer.
Logan


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A question, did you run REW or similar to check?
The graph Audyssey shows after is only what it tries to do not what it actually achieves


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post #5 of 9 Old 07-21-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Using REW and Umik measures your room as does Audyssey.



Audyssey tries to EQ the speakers to fit their "room curve" but may or my not yield good results in a terribly bright room, (tile, concrete, glass etc), or in a terribly "dull" room, (heavy drapes, wall to wall carpeting, upholstered furniture), etc.



REW+Umik results might have you moving the positions of speakers/subs to tame peaks or using a MiniDSP or similar.



Personally the only room treatments I use are rugs and tapestries as Audyssey in my main room did a good job for me and a MiniDSP EQ'd with the help of REW and Umik did in my secondary room where my receiver has no on board EQ.
By the way, miniDSP does more of less the same thing as Audyssey XT32.

And REW in most cases is used to measure the room audio characteristics rather than fix anything.
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post #6 of 9 Old 07-21-2019, 01:55 PM
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By the way, miniDSP does more of less the same thing as Audyssey XT32.

And REW in most cases is used to measure the room audio characteristics rather than fix anything.
In a manual way, yes as I was unable to download the REW measurements to my MiniDSP so used the parametric EQ to knock down peaks.

The in room response needed very little EQ and Audssey in my other room made minimal changes above 500hz which is ideal.

I didn't bother using REW in my main room where Audyssey was used as the sound is good and in a room that is an actual room rugs and a single tapestry area as much "room treatment" as I care to use.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #7 of 9 Old 07-21-2019, 02:46 PM
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Audyssey (etc), miniDSP, manual 1/3-Octave Band Equalizer can only adjust Gain vs Frequency Response, although DIRAC also adjusts Time Delay [and has a LOT more control over Sub-Woofer Freq Response]. So Audyssey (etc) can reduce the Primary and Secondary (at 2X Primary Freq) Room Resonances....and provide a bit of Boost on the NULL Freqs below, between and above those Freqs....but they usually can NOT "cure" a NULL completely....which is why 2+ Sub-Woofers are recommended to eliminate/minimize those Room Nulls.

BTW: Most Audyssey (etc) implementations, esp. from a few years ago, do NOT have a sufficient number of Filters [some only 1 or 2] available to adequately Equalize the Sub-Woofer Freqs (typ. you need 5 or more for 20-80 Hz)....so BASS TRAPS may be an essential PART of a solution to providing a truly FLAT Frequency Response from 20-80 Hz. Check your AVR's manual to see what are the Center Frequencies for Manual Setting of the Frequency Response.....which "should" tell you how many Filters are under Auto control by Audyssey.

What they do NOT do is to attenuate REFLECTIONS that can muddy the sound you hear, as described in fol. excellent articles:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-9UVOC8...ome-audio.html
http://arqen.com/acoustics-101/room-...stic-treatment

And fol. articles specifically address BASS TRAPS, which can improve how STRONG those Primary and Secondary Room Resonances may be to begin with...and how DEEP the NULLS may be, meaning Audyssey (etc.) Room Equalizer doesn't have to work as hard:
https://www.sonic-shield.com/bass-trap-faqs
https://www.gikacoustics.com/how-bass-traps-work
http://arqen.com/bass-traps-101/placement-guide

For more info, see my fol. post re Multiple Sub-Woofers & Room Equalization:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post54537820

Last edited by holl_ands; 07-21-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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post #8 of 9 Old 07-22-2019, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totemtimer View Post
Hello, I’m going to possibly make a fool of myself and just ask this.
I don’t understand the purpose room treatment and all the REW processes if I can just use audyssey xt 32.


Fast forward to minute 6:





Good sound is always the result of engineering. And engineering always starts with measuring. Consumer industry and mainstream will never tell customers about that: improvements in room acoustics are worth roughly ten (10!) times the amount spent on equipment like speakers and receivers. For example: only $500 in room treatment is worth more than spending $5000 (fivethousand) on equipment.
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post #9 of 9 Old 07-26-2019, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totemtimer View Post
Hello, I’m going to possibly make a fool of myself and just ask this.
I don’t understand the purpose room treatment and all the REW processes if I can just use audyssey xt 32.

Do you understand it now?

Good sound is always the result of engineering. And engineering always starts with measuring. Consumer industry and mainstream will never tell customers about that: improvements in room acoustics are worth roughly ten (10!) times the amount spent on equipment like speakers and receivers. For example: only $500 in room treatment is worth more than spending $5000 (fivethousand) on equipment.
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