Leaving crossovers the way receiver sets them up. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 6 Old 08-01-2019, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Leaving crossovers the way receiver sets them up.

I have always set my crossovers to 80 hz after setting my speakers to small in 5.1.2 setup. I just changed my center to a Klipsch 500C in place of a 20 year old Lynnfield VR10. When I ran Yamaha Ypao after installing the klipsch it configured my fronts(JBL 230) and center as large. I set them back to small and the Yamaha set my crossovers for all three speakers at 40HZ. Instead of just immediately moving those crossovers to 80 I decided to listen for awhile as I broke in the Klipsch 500C. Im amazed at how great my system sounds. Perhaps its the big bass port the Klipsch has on back of the center speaker or the way it effortlessly matched the JBL timbre but I'm loving keeping the crossover at 40HZ on all three speakers.

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post #2 of 6 Old 08-01-2019, 10:58 AM
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The 230's are rated to 52 Hz and the center to 60 Hz. Most likely you are hearing harmonic distortion, which is louder than the fundamental, so often makes the bass sound "richer" or "fuller" even though what it is actually doing is adding harmonic (etc. ) distortion. I would set the crossover to 80 Hz and try adjusting the tone controls, target curve, sub trim, or whatever rather than letting the main speakers try to handle stuff they really can't.

That said, if you like your crossover, you can keep your crossover.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3 of 6 Old 08-01-2019, 02:33 PM
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These automatic room tuning apps vary tremendously in capability. They are limited in their ability to understand what is happening in the room and limited in their ability to fix the perceived issues. Folks rely way too much on these bits of software to correct all the things that can be corrected with proper speaker placement, listening position, crossover setting, physical room correction.

That said, we all have limitations on how systems/rooms can be laid out. With each compromise comes another item on the list of things needing to be addressed by the software (can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, no matter how good the "processing" is, or in most cases, isn't). There are some characteristics that just cannot be fixed by processing (nulls, for instance).

Bottom line, continuing to tune after the fact is a good approach, because your ears are far superior to any software in hearing what is going on in the room and choosing what combination of options work best.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

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post #4 of 6 Old 08-01-2019, 07:51 PM
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I haven't found ears to be all that great at assessing flatness especially in the bass (except for large peaks/nulls). I use REW (or similar) to measure after correction, then dial in the flatness, and make final tweaks for preference from there.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #5 of 6 Old 08-02-2019, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I haven't found ears to be all that great at assessing flatness especially in the bass (except for large peaks/nulls). I use REW (or similar) to measure after correction, then dial in the flatness, and make final tweaks for preference from there.
Agreed. Even a dB meter will provide valuable info.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #6 of 6 Old 08-04-2019, 06:40 AM
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Exclamation

@mattg3


While automatic room EQing is often improving the sound, it can't do wonders - and very often there is room left for further improvement.


Example: The crossover frequency is a crucially important frequency sitting at a point in the spectrum where much of the energy is concentrated in music (60-80 Hz). Getting the xover wrong, for example creating a dip due to cancellations, obviously can have a huge impact on the perceived sound (with identical speakers losing punch of the kickdrum when playing back stereo mixes over the center speaker could be one example).



Let's assume the software suggested a certain xover frequency for the center.
You listen but are not really satisfied and try different settings.
So among the xover settings you will find one you like most.

But what do you really know?
Was it really a certain xover that reduced the problem? What if a different parameter, for example the sub's distance setting, is causing the cancellations? By measuring you would see if the problem persists, but by ear you could be tricked to believe you have found the optimum.

To how many mixes have you listened to to check the setting? 10? 20? 50?
And what kind of mixes did you choose as reference?
Only music you like? All genres? What genres?


Why do music studios have not speakers for different kinds of genres of music? Because they aim to play back as flat as possible. That's the good guidance to judge any kind of mix/music.


So when you have reached the 20th reference mix during testing, do you exactly remember, how the kickdrum in the second song sounded and how it compares to the current one playing? Ofcourse not.



The truth is a layman cannot judge sound quality by listening.
Even only very few professionals are able to do so when it comes to room acoustics and sound system tuning. There's a reason why professionals use analyzers all the time to help their ears...


What complicates things even more: mixes sound waaay too different to be able to judge the sound of a system by listening to only a few of them.
On one mix the kickdrum makes you believe you have finally found a very good and neutral setting, while on another mix the bassdrum suddenly is lacking power and has too much subbass.
What's correct? What's the better sounding mix and what is just sounding better on your system in your specific room because of the tremendous coloration and filtering that is going on in every room?



Chances are VERY high that it's your monitoring that emphasizes certain aspects of a certain mix that makes you like one mix more than another.

The only thing you can do by ear is to say, if you like a certain mix/sound more than another on your system in your specific room. But which one actually really sounds better? That can only be judged on optimized systems without huge problems in nicely sounding rooms. Everything else is hogwash.


Start measuring.
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Good sound is always the result of engineering. And engineering always starts with measuring. Consumer industry and mainstream will never tell customers about that: improvements in room acoustics are worth roughly ten (10!) times the amount spent on equipment like speakers and receivers. For example: only $500 in room treatment is worth more than spending $5000 (fivethousand) on equipment.

Last edited by Skinfax1; 08-04-2019 at 07:09 AM.
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