B&W Nautilus HTM1 & Audyssey setting Part II (repost) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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B&W Nautilus HTM1 & Audyssey setting Part II (repost)

Hi All:
I posted this thread and question in the Speaker Forum, but now realized that I should have posted it here at the audio set up forum; however, I can't seem to find a way to move or close that thread, so I repost it here and sincerely hope that I don't violate any of the forum rule for doing so. Anyway, I really hope someone from this forum can help me understand the problem with the Audyssey.

A while back I has asked this question but can't find a good answer, thus part II of the same question!

In summary:

I purchased an used but in very good condition b&w nautilus htm1 center speaker, which is a relatively large center:

http://bwgroupsupport.com/downloads/...0InfoSheet.pdf

The speaker sound really good and all drivers are working, I tested all the drivers individually to make sure they all are working; however, when I ran the Audyssey XT32 on my Marantz AV7702 MkII preamp, the Audyssey would set the crossover for the HTM1 at 150Hz, which seems to be super high, consider this speaker can go down as low as 50hz. I reran the Audyssey many times and have moved the mic around a bit, but still have the same results. I have a numbers of other center speakers, from Klipsch RC64II, Emotiva C2, Onix Rocket Bigfoot RC200, Infinity Alpha 37C to a much smaller B&W cc6 s2, all of them were set up on the same preamp, on the same shelf and all other centers are has the crossover set by the Audyssey at around 40-80Hz. Even my small in-ceiling Atmos speakers are crossover at 100hz by Audyssey.

When I asked this question the first time, many folks told me it might be the room interaction or I have a null zone that would caused that. Anyway, last weekend I decided to do some tests with the low frequency sweep and measured the response from a few of my other center speakers to compare are here are the results.

Test Parameters:
Preamp: Marantz AV7702 MkII, set to Puredirect, only the test speaker is connected to the amplifier (Left Ch)
Amplifier: Emotiva MPS1 (200W/ch)
Radioshack sound meter set at two locations: 3.3ft (1m) from the center of the speaker, see pictures and 10ft at the primary seating position
Volume is setting at 0 (Ref. level)
Speakers Test:
1) B&W Nautilus HTM1 (seal): Frequency Response: 49Hz – 20kHz ± 2dB on reference; Sensitivity: 90dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
2) Onix Rocket RC200 (vent): Frequency Response: 50 Hz to 20 KHz (± 3 dB); Sensitivity:91 dB (@ 1 watt / 1 meter)
3)Infinity Alpha 37C (seal): frequency response 45-22,000 Hz (±3dB); sensitivity 91 dB


Result at 3.3ft (1m)
Speakers 20 hz 30 hz 40 hz 50 hz 60 hz 70 hz 80 hz
B&W HMT1 81 db 81 db 82 db 90 db 97 db 98 db 103 db
Onix RC200 88 db 92 db 93 db 94 db 101 db 99 db 101 db
Infinity Alpha 37C 80 db 82 db 78 db 85 db 92 db 91 db 97 db

Result at 10ft (primary seating)
Speakers 20 hz 30 hz 40 hz 50 hz 60 hz 70 hz 80 hz
B&W HMT1 81 db 87 db 84 db 92 db 99 db 100 db 103 db
Onix RC200 89 db 87 db 98 db 98 db 101 db 101 db 103 db
Infinity Alpha 37C 75 db 77 db 87 db 87 db 91 db 90 db 93 db

For some reason, the result table does not show up very well in the post so I attached the screenshot of the excel table in this post along with the set up pics and two screen shoots of the Audyssey after calibration graphs and you can clearly see, according to Audyssey, that the center HMT1 showed absolutely no output below 150hz, compare to the my front speakers. However, based on my test, one can clearly see, the B&W is responded very well from 50hz and above just like other speakers. Then why the Audyssey would set the B&W HMT1 at 150hz and show no output below 150hz? When both the Onix is set correctly at 40hz and the small Infinity at 60hz. That was really puzzling me! Does anyone have any explanation beside the room interaction,the null zone or Audyssey suck? Well, at least I now know for sure that the B&W is working correctly and not a damage good!
Sorry for the long post! And thanks for reading and the response.
Sincerely,
BT
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Last edited by btran33; 08-07-2019 at 08:46 AM.
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post #2 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 09:27 AM
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Does it sound wrong to you? (After you set it to a lower xcrossover or bypass everything)
Do you use audyssey when you watch movies/music?


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post #3 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Does it sound wrong to you? (After you set it to a lower xcrossover or bypass everything)
Do you use audyssey when you watch movies/music?


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It doesn't sound wrong or anything when I lower the XOver, the fact that Audyssey does something weird just bother me that's all; in fact, the B&W HTM1 has been the best center speaker I ever owned and I do owned a lot of center speakers, anything from Klipsch, Emotiva, Martin Logan, Infinity, JBL, Mirage, AV123 and a few more. You can probably guess that I'm not a firm believer in "timber match" the front soundstage! Yes, I always use Audyssey for movie and music, as it does make a lot of diff. with my untreated room.
Thanks,
BT
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post #4 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 10:19 AM
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I don't use any of that "stuff". But, IMO, override/change/set to your satisfaction. Audessey police do not monitor.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #5 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
I don't use any of that "stuff". But, IMO, override/change/set to your satisfaction. Audessey police do not monitor.
Agreed! I have changed the Xover lower to 80hz and very happy with the B&W center. And Me too, I really don't want to turn this thread to another, Audyssey is bad, good or whatever; just want to understand the reason behind.
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post #6 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 10:55 AM
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You listed all the likly candidates from the other thread you had but its strange for sure. Have you tried a completly different placement (even room) to see if the setup gets it wrong there also?

You seem to be experienced with setting up and trying surround equipment so its difficult to know what to check try next but hopefully someone recognize the problem and knows a reason or solution.
The only drawback from setting the xo down is that audyssey dont have any eq to use on the center for that «gap» but unless you have some big room issues with the center between 80 and 150hz then it shouldnt matter in practical use.


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post #7 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
I have a numbers of other center speakers, from Klipsch RC64II, Emotiva C2, Onix Rocket Bigfoot RC200, Infinity Alpha 37C to a much smaller B&W cc6 s2, all of them were set up on the same preamp, on the same shelf and all other centers are has the crossover set by the Audyssey at around 40-80Hz.
All of these CC speakers listed calibrated accordingly or as expected. The HTM1 produces odd results.


I think you'll be hard pressed to find a definitive answer as to "why?". I can understand your piqued curiosity.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #8 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
You listed all the likly candidates from the other thread you had but its strange for sure. Have you tried a completly different placement (even room) to see if the setup gets it wrong there also?

You seem to be experienced with setting up and trying surround equipment so its difficult to know what to check try next but hopefully someone recognize the problem and knows a reason or solution.
The only drawback from setting the xo down is that audyssey dont have any eq to use on the center for that «gap» but unless you have some big room issues with the center between 80 and 150hz then it shouldnt matter in practical use.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
No, I have to test in another room as I don't really want to deal with unhook a million (OK, way less than that but close enough!) cables from the preamp and bring the preamp to another room. My other rooms don't have preamp/receiver with Audyssey, just 2 channels set up and soundbar for the family room TV. Anyway, l don't hear anything wrong when lower down the crossover, so I will keep at it, unless someone can point out a solution.
Thanks,
BT
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post #9 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 02:42 PM
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Could be the Audyssey mic.

Do you have a coffee table between MLP and CC?

That's all I got.....
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post #10 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 02:57 PM
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I got the HTM2 and Audy sets it at 40hz and I raise it to 90hz.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA 3600I'S.
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post #11 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Could be the Audyssey mic.

Do you have a coffee table between MLP and CC?

That's all I got.....
Yes, I do have a glass coffee table in between. I'll try to rerun the audyseey without the coffee table to see if any different.
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post #12 of 13 Old 08-07-2019, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I got the HTM2 and Audy sets it at 40hz and I raise it to 90hz.
That is a nice center! I'm glad that the Audy works correctly with your...give me some hope then....
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post #13 of 13 Old 08-08-2019, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
Yes, I do have a glass coffee table in between. I'll try to rerun the audyseey without the coffee table to see if any different.
Coffee tables are the worst for center channel reflections...I have one in my living room HT. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do for WAF.
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