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post #31 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Nobody has the ability to hear a difference between adequately thick AC power cables, including the free one which came with the gear.
The scientific answer to power cables is the shielding.

Strong EMI and ground affects the whole system.

What is debatable is if we can hear all that strong disturbing noice.
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post #32 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
When i visit the PS Audio music room it is easy to understand why that guy does not like objective testing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EvZMKUzyUE
How do you think they test their gear??
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post #33 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Nobody has the ability to hear a difference between adequately thick AC power cables, including the free one which came with the gear.
As a 10 year old would say back in the 'old days'... "I double dare you to prove it!!". (joke)



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #34 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post

You were present on the test I talked about. Impressive elaborate...
You seem to have misread my post. Read it again please.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #35 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:34 PM
 
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The thing is this is difficult to prove.

Just as the dogfood....

More so in audio.

But EMI is easy to prove.
Scientific
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post #36 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
You seem to have misread my post. Read it again please.
What you was born


Sorry what I discussed was of you are 100% that Paul didn't have a big red button 30 years ago.

When you say 100% not at a time we had phones with wheels.

I thought you were there, that's why the big excitement.
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post #37 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
The scientific answer to power cables is the shielding.

Strong EMI and ground affects the whole system.

What is debatable is if we can hear all that strong disturbing noice.
Why?
Isn't a 12/14AWG AC cable at 120V full of EMI? It probably emits more EMI than it absorbs. Does it have already a ground? Doesn't the hardware convert AC to DC?
If one "thinks" they can hear it, they will.
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If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #38 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Why?
Isn't a 12/14AWG AC cable at 120V full of EMI? Does it have a ground?
If one "thinks" they can hear it, they will.
All freebee power cables has terrible EMI.

If we hear that is debatable.

That it's affecting most systems is scientific proved.
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post #39 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
That it's affecting most systems is scientific proved.
Only by AC cable vendors.
I stand corrected...……… they "profess" that. They never "prove" that.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #40 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
Controlled tests is only the valid science test, and must happen in a kind of lab.
That's a falsehood spread by Hans and the like, paraphrased: " Don't trust your ears under double blind, level-matched conditions you can run yourself for free at home using Foobar ABX, Instead only trust me and send me 50,000 bucks and I will prove it."

This fits the title of the thread perfectly. He wants to hide the truth from as many people as possible.
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post #41 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Only by AC cable vendors.
I stand corrected...……… they "profess" that. They never "prove" that.
I insist that EMI is affecting our systems is scientific proved.

EMI from power cables, phones and routers is affecting our equipment .
Just go back too the review with measurements I linked to.

If you still is confused, ask your teacher
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post #42 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
That's a falsehood spread by Hans and the like, paraphrased: " Don't trust your ears under double blind, level-matched conditions you can run yourself for free at home using Foobar ABX, Instead only trust me and send me 50,000 bucks and I will prove it."



This fits the title of the thread perfectly. He wants to hide the truth from as many people as possible.
It's not from my buddy Hans
It's from science all the way.

If you don't understand science, I suggest you go Wiki.
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post #43 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
The measurements to prove Audio Quality today I'm sorry to inform you. It doesn't work, it's not near valid.
This falsehood spread by Hans is a wrong. Measurements can detect differences which are one hundredth the size any human can detect.
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post #44 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
I insist that EMI is affecting our systems is scientific proved.

EMI from power cables, phones and routers is affecting our equipment .
Just go back too the review with measurements I linked to.

If you still is confused, ask your teacher
I know YOU insist. Where's the proof? (No YouTube.... show white papers.)
I did state EMI is typically emitted. Not absorbed. If it affects... it generally not a "freebie" power cable.
Experience (and mistakes made when I was young) has been my teacher.
(Back in the old days... I read books. We didn't have PC's or Internet.)
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If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein

Last edited by Ratman; 08-09-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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post #45 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
I insist that EMI is affecting our systems is scientific proved.

EMI from power cables, phones and routers is affecting our equipment .
Just go back too the review with measurements I linked to.

If you still is confused, ask your teacher
No. Modern power supplies are more than capable of rejecting noise from the AC line.
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post #46 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 01:55 PM
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IIDexII, are you related to alan0354? Brothers?

Save your money.
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post #47 of 86 Old 08-09-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
How do you think they test their gear??
It is pretty clear that they do not want people to do any objective testing on their stuff. So why should i even care about how they test their gear??
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post #48 of 86 Old 08-11-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
I can't figure out what is so inherently "stressful" about an ABX listening test? It's not like anyone is being graded on it!
Of course it is stressful. Failure is a high probability. Then what? One has to resign their "golden ear" club membership.
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post #49 of 86 Old 08-11-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
...

Abx works for medicine, not in audio not so well and not in food or vine.

...
Actually, medical researcher doesn't use an ABX test. Shows how little you understand bias controlled testing.
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post #50 of 86 Old 08-11-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
...

Childish examples a girl dig vocals, a guy dig Base

The same goes for medicine science tests of sick with placebo and real medicine.

But it is easy to check medical if the person got better.
Childish example is correct. Actually is it less than that.

Actually, medicine also tests different formularies to see which is more effective, cost benefits, side effects, etc.
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post #51 of 86 Old 08-11-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
In fact in every way a test is stressful.

Your not in your normal listening mood..

And we listen different to different times and situation.
We are not machines..
And a sighted test is not stressful? Why not? It is a test after all and you claim test is stressful.
Can't have it both ways.
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post #52 of 86 Old 08-11-2019, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
...
There Are some shady audio dealers.

.....
Like shady psychics? Or the ones who talk to the dead souls?
Are they all shady or just some.
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post #53 of 86 Old 08-11-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
More importantly (IMHO), why start a thread knowing that it is going to generate more bickering and nonsense.
There can not and will not be a "winner".
We are all being tested and we didn't even know it.
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post #54 of 86 Old 08-13-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
I insist that EMI is affecting our systems is scientific proved.

EMI from power cables, phones and routers is affecting our equipment .
Just go back too the review with measurements I linked to.

If you still is confused, ask your teacher
We all know from the published works, in peer-reviewed journals, of noted scientists and engineers that EMI/RFI is an issue with audio system cables and interconnects. Your personal insistence that it is "scientific proved" is not how you make a cogent argument. Cite the works of researchers who have the experience in the field of discussion to make your argument.

I suggest that you start your research with the work of Jim Brown, Neal Muncy, Bill Whitlock, and John Windt on the subjects of EMI/RFI and SCIN in cables and interconnects.
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post #55 of 86 Old 08-13-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
The scientific answer to power cables is the shielding.

Strong EMI and ground affects the whole system.

What is debatable is if we can hear all that strong disturbing noice.
Do you really believe that six feet of cable shielded with Aluminized Polyester foil will counteract the hundreds of feet of unshielded, untwisted wire running through your home that acts as an antenna for RF signals that the cable is connected to? Do you really believe that the same type of cable will block a radiated magnetic field from a power transformer or a high current line from coupling to a signal interconnect that are in close proximity? There is no debate about the audibility of EMI/RFI. I'm sure @Glimmie can tell you some stories.
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post #56 of 86 Old 08-13-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
It's from science all the way.
Screaming "SCIENCE" like some crazed imitation of Thomas Dolby isn't going to make Kelly LeBrock appear from some fog-shrouded lavatory to bolster your arguments. Cite published research.

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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post
If you don't understand science, I suggest you go Wiki.
Wikipedia is not a peer-reviewed journal.
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post #57 of 86 Old 08-14-2019, 05:05 PM
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Maybe folks wouldn't be so scared if you just stop using this to do the test:



brrrrrrrrrrrrr

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #58 of 86 Old 08-14-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
More importantly (IMHO), why start a thread knowing that it is going to generate more bickering and nonsense.
There can not and will not be a "winner".

Entertainment value. It's a very boring time for audio equipment. Waiting for HDMI 2.1 has put new models on hold.

Certainly this thread is equally as informative as a culture of pundits on TV, or much of the original content created by Netflix. How many versions of the Norwood Builder are required?
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post #59 of 86 Old 08-14-2019, 08:04 PM
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Good post M. Zillch! Always worth clearing up misconceptions about blind testing methods.


I've encountered so many b.s. claims when audiophiles reject blind testing.


I feel the same way some others do here: I just can't see the whole "stress" thing with blind testing or why I'd even reject it. It's great to have it in the tool-kit when you really want to weed through some variables.
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post #60 of 86 Old 08-15-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
And a sighted test is not stressful? Why not? It is a test after all and you claim test is stressful.
Can't have it both ways.
plse stop the stressful nonsense. Reviewers are under more stress when testing equipment/ writing review. It were them who originaly came up with the ''stressful'' complaint.
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