Need help before cutting holes in my ceiling for Atmos - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 19Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 34 Old 08-14-2019, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Need help before cutting holes in my ceiling for Atmos

Just bought a townhouse, and our basement will have the HT. Our setup will take up about half the room (19 X 21). The other half will be an office. It's not ideal, but I like that we'll be able to have a fire going while watching a movie. Here's the problem so far. My surrounds are a bit loud beamy, so right now, using just 5.1, surround effects sound like they're coming from "A SPEAKER!!" I've tried moving them to the rear wall, but I didn't like the lack of left/right separation.

Here's the deal, though; I just bought 4 B&W in-ceiling CCM665 speakers, and I'll be installing them shortly. I'm hoping they'll help with front/back and left/right separation. Before I cut holes, I need to know a few things: First, when I install the Atmos speakers, should I be moving the right ones away from the right and rear walls so as to avoid "corner boom?" If that's the case, I'll be missing out on that L/R separation I'm hoping to gain, right? Or should I just go for it and install them all at 45 degrees in front of and behind the MLP, lining them all up with the front L/Rs? Will that help with L/R separation? The other thing is that I'm not sure about the angle at which these speakers fire, and they're not adjustable, so once I install them, that's where they're staying.

Also, as an aside, I do have to more floor speakers I could potentially use as rear surrounds. My Marantz SR6013 supports them; I'd just have to get a cheap amp to power them. Could that help?

Any suggestions on helping with L/R separation and in-ceiling installation would be great! Thanks in advance!
happygodavid is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 11:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,645
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2720 Post(s)
Liked: 2495
Well, your L&R speakers are artificially limited in separation, due to the width of the wall. That is just a limitation you will have to live with, unless you change the room layout (TV above fireplace, not recommended). So, with that limitation in mind, your Atmos speakers should align with the front speakers, per Dolby spec.

As to your rear speakers, the problem is their proximity to the seated ears, i.e. speaker in your ear syndrome. They are just too close to you for a comfortable experience. My suggestion would be to raise them a foot above your seated ears, so your seated ears are more off-axis, and each speaker's sound radiation is not blocked by the high backed chairs and your heads. Once you have some additional height, then re-play with positioning, with more distance as a +. Also, for every new positioning, be sure to re-run Audyssey. You want the rears to blend in, not draw attention to themselves by being too near and too loud.
happygodavid likes this.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 08-15-2019 at 11:59 AM.
RayGuy is online now  
post #3 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Well, your L&R speakers are artificially limited in separation, due to the width of the wall. That is just a limitation you will have to live with, unless you change the room layout (TV above fireplace, not recommended). So, with that limitation in mind, your Atmos speakers should align with the front speakers, per Dolby spec.

As to your rear speakers, the problem is their proximity to the seated ears, i.e. speaker in your ear syndrome. They are just too close to you for a comfortable experience. My suggestion would be to raise them a foot above your seated ears, so your seated ears are more off-axis, and each speaker's sound radiation is not blocked by the high backed chairs and your heads. Once you have some additional height, then re-play with positioning, with more distance as a +. Also, for every new positioning, be sure to re-run Audyssey. You want the rears to blend in, not draw attention to themselves by being too near and too loud.
Thanks so much for the response.

I've racked my brain trying to think of another layout option; I just cant' think of one, shy of putting the tv over the fireplace, and I'd rather deal with less-than-ideal sound than having the tv that high. I'll try your suggestions on raising the surrounds and re-running Audyssey. Any suggestion on the placement of the Atmos speakers? Should I go for the "as wide as possible" approach, while keeping the right speakers, say, at least a foot from the walls to avoid corner echo/boom? Thanks again.
happygodavid is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 12:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
LNEWoLF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 473 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygodavid View Post
Just bought a townhouse, and our basement will have the HT. Our setup will take up about half the room (19 X 21). The other half will be an office. It's not ideal, but I like that we'll be able to have a fire going while watching a movie. Here's the problem so far. My surrounds are a bit loud beamy, so right now, using just 5.1, surround effects sound like they're coming from "A SPEAKER!!" I've tried moving them to the rear wall, but I didn't like the lack of left/right separation.

Here's the deal, though; I just bought 4 B&W in-ceiling CCM665 speakers, and I'll be installing them shortly. I'm hoping they'll help with front/back and left/right separation. Before I cut holes, I need to know a few things: First, when I install the Atmos speakers, should I be moving the right ones away from the right and rear walls so as to avoid "corner boom?" If that's the case, I'll be missing out on that L/R separation I'm hoping to gain, right? Or should I just go for it and install them all at 45 degrees in front of and behind the MLP, lining them all up with the front L/Rs? Will that help with L/R separation? The other thing is that I'm not sure about the angle at which these speakers fire, and they're not adjustable, so once I install them, that's where they're staying.

Also, as an aside, I do have to more floor speakers I could potentially use as rear surrounds. My Marantz SR6013 supports them; I'd just have to get a cheap amp to power them. Could that help?

Any suggestions on helping with L/R separation and in-ceiling installation would be great! Thanks in advance!
Can you post a picture of the room (wall) 180 deg (opposite) the fireplace.

Twin Pioneer AVR Locomotives-Elite SC 97, SC 1222 7.2.4, DOLBY Atmos and DTS X, (Front Pre Out,) JBL Pro Synthesis LS Series Speakers, F L R-LS80, Cen-LS, S L R-LS60, SB L R-LS60, 4 Dolby Atmos Enabled Klipsch R41SA, Twin Klipsch R120SW. Mitz 73740 DLP, Sony UBP-X800, ATV G4, Yamaha ATS 1060 Sound Bar, True Depth Firestorm 2.0 3D Glasses, Harmony Hub with Utlimate 1 Remote, Broadlink RM Pro2, EYE Pad Air, Winegard FL6550A
LNEWoLF is offline  
post #5 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 12:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,645
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2720 Post(s)
Liked: 2495
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygodavid View Post
Thanks so much for the response.

I've racked my brain trying to think of another layout option; I just cant' think of one, shy of putting the tv over the fireplace, and I'd rather deal with less-than-ideal sound than having the tv that high. I'll try your suggestions on raising the surrounds and re-running Audyssey. Any suggestion on the placement of the Atmos speakers? Should I go for the "as wide as possible" approach, while keeping the right speakers, say, at least a foot from the walls to avoid corner echo/boom? Thanks again.
As stated above:
Quote:
Atmos speakers should align with the front speakers, per Dolby spec.
Your Audyssey will lower the gain on the speakers that are closer to the wall intersection to balance them with the rest of the system. Your fronts and rears have the same problem, BTW.
happygodavid likes this.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
RayGuy is online now  
post #6 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNEWoLF View Post
Can you post a picture of the room (wall) 180 deg (opposite) the fireplace.


Here ya go! I've considered moving the tv and center channel there, but it's not ideal, as I don't want to be looking up at the tv. Mainly, though, running wires would require a lot of drywall cutting/patching, and I really don't want to mess with that. In my current lengthwise setup, I can run wires for Atmos speakers from the closet behind the tv. Maybe that's not where you were headed, but figured I'd explain the situation. There's just not an ideal setup; trying to make the best of what I've got. And what's funny is that I told my wife what I was doing (posting questions about setup on here), and she laughed, rolled her eyes, and said, "What difference does it make where you put all these speakers?? It sounds amazing! This isn't a criticism, but don't let your quest for perfection prevent you from enjoying this amazing setup we've got." She has a point...
happygodavid is offline  
post #7 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 01:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
LNEWoLF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 473 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygodavid View Post


Here ya go! I've considered moving the tv and center channel there, but it's not ideal, as I don't want to be looking up at the tv. Mainly, though, running wires would require a lot of drywall cutting/patching, and I really don't want to mess with that. In my current lengthwise setup, I can run wires for Atmos speakers from the closet behind the tv. Maybe that's not where you were headed, but figured I'd explain the situation. There's just not an ideal setup; trying to make the best of what I've got. And what's funny is that I told my wife what I was doing (posting questions about setup on here), and she laughed, rolled her eyes, and said, "What difference does it make where you put all these speakers?? It sounds amazing! This isn't a criticism, but don't let your quest for perfection prevent you from enjoying this amazing setup we've got." She has a point...
?

Twin Pioneer AVR Locomotives-Elite SC 97, SC 1222 7.2.4, DOLBY Atmos and DTS X, (Front Pre Out,) JBL Pro Synthesis LS Series Speakers, F L R-LS80, Cen-LS, S L R-LS60, SB L R-LS60, 4 Dolby Atmos Enabled Klipsch R41SA, Twin Klipsch R120SW. Mitz 73740 DLP, Sony UBP-X800, ATV G4, Yamaha ATS 1060 Sound Bar, True Depth Firestorm 2.0 3D Glasses, Harmony Hub with Utlimate 1 Remote, Broadlink RM Pro2, EYE Pad Air, Winegard FL6550A
LNEWoLF is offline  
post #8 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNEWoLF View Post
?
Oh, geez. OPPOSITE wall. Here ya go. Imgur won't let me post again for a bit.

Edit: It would be a great wall for a theater. But it's the wall we share with neighbors. It has cinder blocks separating us, but still... Plus, my wife wants to sit by the fire in the winter while we watch things.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	+0aagJooRDisfrnJDYmtFQ.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	920.9 KB
ID:	2603302  
happygodavid is offline  
post #9 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 02:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,645
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2720 Post(s)
Liked: 2495
Well, upon re-reading your initial post, it dawned on me that the fireplace wall could be usable IF you invested in a MantleMount device (similar products from other manufacturers). You would have to attach the center channel to the bottom of the mount/TV, so it traveled with the TV (may need a more narrow option for the center channel speaker). The side speakers could sit to the right and left of the fireplace (what speakers are they, btw?).

https://www.mantelmount.com/collecti...down-tv-mounts

Another advantage would be that the TV would no longer be opposite the windows and their inherent glare off the screen.

Just another option to consider before you start cutting holes.
happygodavid likes this.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 08-15-2019 at 02:15 PM.
RayGuy is online now  
post #10 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 02:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,306
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 456
If you went with a projector and pull down screen (manual or electric), it would open up a couple options for you. Option 1 would be above the fireplace and option 2 would be above the outside double doors (you would want to put up some blackout curtains or something to block the light though). With Option 2, you would only need to flip the chairs and you could keep the couch in the same spot I think. The AVR and other components could stay where they are and you would just have to run speaker wire for LCR and hdmi and power to the projector.
happygodavid likes this.
m0j0 is offline  
post #11 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Well, upon re-reading your initial post, it dawned on me that the fireplace wall could be usable IF you invested in a MantleMount device (similar products from other manufacturers). You would have to attach the center channel to the bottom of the mount/TV, so it traveled with the TV (may need a more narrow option for the center channel speaker). The side speakers could sit to the right and left of the fireplace (what speakers are they, btw?).



https://www.mantelmount.com/collecti...down-tv-mounts



Another advantage would be that the TV would no longer be opposite the windows and their inherent glare off the screen.



Just another option to consider before you start cutting holes.


Man, that would be great. Having just bought a house, though, I can’t spend any more money right now. Otherwise, I’d consider it, even with having to cut drywall to run things. As for the glare, it’s not an issue with blackout blinds and curtains. Thanks for the link, tho, as that could come in handy down the road.
happygodavid is offline  
post #12 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
If you went with a projector and pull down screen (manual or electric), it would open up a couple options for you. Option 1 would be above the fireplace and option 2 would be above the outside double doors (you would want to put up some blackout curtains or something to block the light though). With Option 2, you would only need to flip the chairs and you could keep the couch in the same spot I think. The AVR and other components could stay where they are and you would just have to run speaker wire for LCR and hdmi and power to the projector.


I like the idea of flipping the room and using a screen. We just can’t buy anymore “stuff” right now, having just bought a house. I’ll definitely ponder that for the future, tho.
happygodavid is offline  
post #13 of 34 Old 08-15-2019, 02:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ratbuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,034
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 1023
I would try to set up the Atmos speakers in such a spacing that they'll still be good when you hopefully eventually switch your setup to the wall that has the fireplace. Do you have a floor plan available? I'd like to see the dimensions and layout of the room.
RayGuy and happygodavid like this.
ratbuddy is offline  
post #14 of 34 Old 08-16-2019, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I would try to set up the Atmos speakers in such a spacing that they'll still be good when you hopefully eventually switch your setup to the wall that has the fireplace. Do you have a floor plan available? I'd like to see the dimensions and layout of the room.
I chatted with my wife about placing the tv over the fireplace, and she didn't like the idea, even with the mount that would lower it. The main objections is being unable to enjoy a fire (historically, we have used fireplaces a ton) while watching tv/gaming. I'm kinda with her on that, but even if I wasn't, I want her to enjoy the room, too. So, unfortunately, I think we're stuck with what we've got while we're in this townhouse. The way I'm thinking of it is this; it's better than cramming up the living room with speakers (plus, the LR has its own setup problems), and when we buy another house down the road, I'll prioritize having a better space for a HT. It is what it is.

That having been said, I did a rough sketch of the room layout to get suggestions on going with what we've got. Attached is an image of the whole room. Also, a closeup of the HT area with a few options for Atmos speakers. For the top fronts, I'm debating between going further out (in line with the front mains) or slightly inward, maybe even just slightly inward for the top front right, so it won't be jammed up against the wall. For the top rears, I'm debating the same thing, but there's the additional concern about the back wall, so I'm considering moving them a bit inward and forward, even though they'll be slightly off their 45 degree axis. Suggestions on which spots to mount these guys?
happygodavid is offline  
post #15 of 34 Old 08-16-2019, 10:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,306
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 456
If you are thinking you may sell the townhome down the road, I would return the in ceiling speakers and buy some wall or ceiling mounted speakers, as it would be easier to patch up a few small holes vs the big speaker holes you will make with in ceilings. If you wall mount as front heights and rear heights, that would more easily let you flip the room around if you wanted to go with a projector down the road.
RayGuy and happygodavid like this.
m0j0 is offline  
post #16 of 34 Old 08-16-2019, 07:19 PM
 
emcdade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,051
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked: 431
You could also raise your front speakers up with some stands or concrete blocks so that their dispersion pattern bounces off the ceiling. This will give that nice overhead effect when helicopters are on screen without having to make holes in your ceiling.
emcdade is offline  
post #17 of 34 Old 08-17-2019, 04:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,344
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 913 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Well, your L&R speakers are artificially limited in separation, due to the width of the wall. That is just a limitation you will have to live with, unless you change the room layout (TV above fireplace, not recommended). So, with that limitation in mind, your Atmos speakers should align with the front speakers, per Dolby spec.



As to your rear speakers, the problem is their proximity to the seated ears, i.e. speaker in your ear syndrome. They are just too close to you for a comfortable experience. My suggestion would be to raise them a foot above your seated ears, so your seated ears are more off-axis, and each speaker's sound radiation is not blocked by the high backed chairs and your heads. Once you have some additional height, then re-play with positioning, with more distance as a +. Also, for every new positioning, be sure to re-run Audyssey. You want the rears to blend in, not draw attention to themselves by being too near and too loud.
I have had my TV above fireplace for the last 10 years. No problem. It does not even get warm. And looks great.
SouthernCA is online now  
post #18 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Update: After looking at all the suggestions here and chatting with my wife, we decided to set the room up as though we're going to get a sectional (which we are, once the dust settles on the cost of getting a new house). It doesn't do much, but it shifts the chairs and couch slightly left, and it shifts the whole front stage left, with the L main being across the entryway. I realized that by doing this, I'd a) get a wider sound stage, b) be able to move my eventual MLP to the left a bit, and c) not have a jumbled wall of LCR/tv/console. Also, it gives me the possibility of moving the LS back to either her desk or the wall on the other side of the room. So far, it already sounds much better, just more "open." I angled the RS more toward the left side of the eventual MLP, and while it's still not as good as I've had in wider setups, it's much better than it was. Also, to circle back to suggestions of repositioning everything, we deliberated a lot on whether or not to move the tv and C channel over the fireplace, but we both agreed; it just didn't "feel" as good as our current layout, both aesthetically and physically. Plus, as my wife pointed out, the current setup gives us the option of getting a bigger tv or projector/screen. Right now, it's a 65", and it looks great, but at some point a 77" would be really nice.

So now that we've improved things a bit, what would you guys suggest on placement of these Atmos speakers? According to B&W, they're supposed to fire at a fixed 45 degrees, so I'm assuming they'd need to be moved slightly inward and closer to the eventual MLP. Is this correct? What's the minimum distance from the wall? I've seen everything from 18-24" to .1-.3 the width of the room to 3 ft (what the B&W tech support told me, though I don't trust that necessarily). I've also seen folks cite Anthony Grimani's notion that ceiling speakers should be between the mains and the center channel. I guess in the end, I've never had that top layer before, so I don't really even know its purpose. Is it primarily to add a sense of sound from above (which would supposedly mean slightly narrow is better), or is it supposed to help with left/right pan effect (which would supposedly mean wider is better)?

Thanks again for all of the suggestions. And here's a pic to give the update. And don't worry; our future sectional will be more of a chase lounge on the left side, so there won't be a sofa arm in the way.
happygodavid is offline  
post #19 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 09:51 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,701
Mentioned: 200 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7068 Post(s)
Liked: 6073
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygodavid View Post
I guess in the end, I've never had that top layer before, so I don't really even know its purpose. Is it primarily to add a sense of sound from above (which would supposedly mean slightly narrow is better), or is it supposed to help with left/right pan effect (which would supposedly mean wider is better)?
Since spreading your front speakers wider apart gave you better (more open) sound, no reason the same wouldn't apply to the height speakers, so spread them about the same distance apart as your front speakers. On a separate note, I would place some absorption next to the right front speaker to mimic the lack of wall next to the left front speaker (restore symmetry in the front soundstage).
happygodavid likes this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #20 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Since spreading your front speakers wider apart gave you better (more open) sound, no reason the same wouldn't apply to the height speakers, so spread them about the same distance apart as your front speakers. On a separate note, I would place some absorption next to the right front speaker to mimic the lack of wall next to the left front speaker (restore symmetry in the front soundstage).


Thanks so much for dropping in from the Official Atmos thread, @sdurani !

On absorption, do you have any suggestions on what to use for such a narrow spot?

As for the distance from that right wall, how close do you think I can get without getting boominess from the top right Atmos speakers?

Again, thanks!
happygodavid is offline  
post #21 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 11:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,701
Mentioned: 200 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7068 Post(s)
Liked: 6073
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygodavid View Post
On absorption, do you have any suggestions on what to use for such a narrow spot?
You can stand up a simple 4'x2' absorption panel on the wall next to the front right speaker. If the panel is made of rigid fiberglass (or similar), make sure it is at least 4" thick so that the absorption is somewhat broadband. Too thin panels will only absorb higher frequencies, acting like a tone control (like turning down the treble knob) rather than making the right side wall disappear.
Quote:
As for the distance from that right wall, how close do you think I can get without getting boominess from the top right Atmos speakers?
The boominess should be equalized away by the room correction in your receiver. Still, you might want to get a couple of smaller 2'x2' absorbers and place them high on the right side wall next to the 2 height speakers (again, for symmetry, since there is no wall next to the 2 height speakers on the left).
happygodavid likes this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #22 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
You can stand up a simple 4'x2' absorption panel on the wall next to the front right speaker. If the panel is made of rigid fiberglass (or similar), make sure it is at least 4" thick so that the absorption is somewhat broadband. Too thin panels will only absorb higher frequencies, acting like a tone control (like turning down the treble knob) rather than making the right side wall disappear. The boominess should be equalized away by the room correction in your receiver. Still, you might want to get a couple of smaller 2'x2' absorbers and place them high on the right side wall next to the 2 height speakers (again, for symmetry, since there is no wall next to the 2 height speakers on the left).
Thanks. As for the 4'x2' panel, are you suggesting I put that behind the R main or on the wall to the right of the R main? And sorry to bombard you with questions, but do you have a suggestion as to where to get panels (or learn to DIY)? I'm a total noob when it comes to absorption, other than putting down a thick rug like we've got.
happygodavid is offline  
post #23 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 12:05 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,701
Mentioned: 200 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7068 Post(s)
Liked: 6073
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygodavid View Post
As for the 4'x2' panel, are you suggesting I put that behind the R main or on the wall to the right of the R main?
What's missing near the L main? Wall behind the speaker or wall next to the speaker? You want to mimic that for the R main.
Quote:
And sorry to bombard you with questions, but do you have a suggestion as to where to get panels (or learn to DIY)?
You'll get a better suggestions in the dedicated acoustical treatment thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...er-thread.html
happygodavid likes this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #24 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
What's missing near the L main? Wall behind the speaker or wall next to the speaker? You want to mimic that for the R main. You'll get a better suggestions in the dedicated acoustical treatment thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...er-thread.html
Awesome. Thanks a ton! Cheers.
happygodavid is offline  
post #25 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 12:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,645
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2720 Post(s)
Liked: 2495
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygodavid View Post
Update: After looking at all the suggestions here and chatting with my wife, we decided to set the room up as though we're going to get a sectional (which we are, once the dust settles on the cost of getting a new house). It doesn't do much, but it shifts the chairs and couch slightly left, and it shifts the whole front stage left, with the L main being across the entryway. I realized that by doing this, I'd a) get a wider sound stage, b) be able to move my eventual MLP to the left a bit, and c) not have a jumbled wall of LCR/tv/console. Also, it gives me the possibility of moving the LS back to either her desk or the wall on the other side of the room. So far, it already sounds much better, just more "open." I angled the RS more toward the left side of the eventual MLP, and while it's still not as good as I've had in wider setups, it's much better than it was. Also, to circle back to suggestions of repositioning everything, we deliberated a lot on whether or not to move the tv and C channel over the fireplace, but we both agreed; it just didn't "feel" as good as our current layout, both aesthetically and physically. Plus, as my wife pointed out, the current setup gives us the option of getting a bigger tv or projector/screen. Right now, it's a 65", and it looks great, but at some point a 77" would be really nice.

So now that we've improved things a bit, what would you guys suggest on placement of these Atmos speakers? According to B&W, they're supposed to fire at a fixed 45 degrees, so I'm assuming they'd need to be moved slightly inward and closer to the eventual MLP. Is this correct? What's the minimum distance from the wall? I've seen everything from 18-24" to .1-.3 the width of the room to 3 ft (what the B&W tech support told me, though I don't trust that necessarily). I've also seen folks cite Anthony Grimani's notion that ceiling speakers should be between the mains and the center channel. I guess in the end, I've never had that top layer before, so I don't really even know its purpose. Is it primarily to add a sense of sound from above (which would supposedly mean slightly narrow is better), or is it supposed to help with left/right pan effect (which would supposedly mean wider is better)?

Thanks again for all of the suggestions. And here's a pic to give the update. And don't worry; our future sectional will be more of a chase lounge on the left side, so there won't be a sofa arm in the way.
That should help. Move your TV a few more inches to the left, toe-in the right speaker a bit more (to lessen it's reflection off the right wall), then mimic the front speaker positions in the Atmos config.

Oh, and get yourself one of these, before somebody trips and falls on that speaker wire:

https://www.amazon.com/Legrand-Wirem...SIN=B000BVXVTA
sdurani and happygodavid like this.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
RayGuy is online now  
post #26 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
That should help. Move your TV a few more inches to the left, toe-in the right speaker a bit more (to lessen it's reflection off the right wall), then mimic the front speaker positions in the Atmos config.



Oh, and get yourself one of these, before somebody trips and falls on that speaker wire:



https://www.amazon.com/Legrand-Wirem...SIN=B000BVXVTA


Thanks! I’ll toe it in a bit more and look at adding some absorption as advised earlier.

And ha! That left speaker cable is temporary while I move everything, so no injuries, hopefully. I have a giant spool of in-wall speaker cable for this project, and for that speaker, it’ll be coming out of the wall directly behind it when all is done.
RayGuy likes this.
happygodavid is offline  
post #27 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Since spreading your front speakers wider apart gave you better (more open) sound, no reason the same wouldn't apply to the height speakers, so spread them about the same distance apart as your front speakers. On a separate note, I would place some absorption next to the right front speaker to mimic the lack of wall next to the left front speaker (restore symmetry in the front soundstage).


Well, I got home this evening, ready to dig in and start measuring, maybe even cutting, and I thought, “I better test these B&Ws out.” I heard conflicting info from their tech support when asking about the angle at which they fired. One guy said 45 degrees (there IS an arrow on the mount for pointing in the direction of the listener), another said they fire straight down. I disconnected one of my surroundings, hooked up one of the B&Ws, turned up said channel, and played a song. I’d say it pretty much fires straight down, tho maybe with a slight axis of about 15-20 degrees in the direction of the arrow. Unfortunately, the tweeter is not adjustable. I’m wondering if I should see if I can return these (I’m probably outside the window) and get models that have adjustable tweeters. Or, does it matter? Wondering if Audyssey will help out with this. My gosh at the rabbit hole I’ve created.
happygodavid is offline  
post #28 of 34 Old 08-20-2019, 03:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,701
Mentioned: 200 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7068 Post(s)
Liked: 6073
Most speakers sound better when aimed towards the listener rather than pointing at an arbitrary spot on the carpet. You knew that already. IF it is too late to return them, then use them. Audyssey will do what it can to make the speaker's off-axis response sound better.
happygodavid likes this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #29 of 34 Old Yesterday, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Most speakers sound better when aimed towards the listener rather than pointing at an arbitrary spot on the carpet. You knew that already. IF it is too late to return them, then use them. Audyssey will do what it can to make the speaker's off-axis response sound better.


After sleeping on it, I think I may just wait. In the meantime, I can set up my rear surrounds to get 7.2.

Also, I got them through a friend who had an employee discount, but I’m well outside the return window, and he left his job. The good news is that I can sell them, at least break even, and just go for some small speakers like, say, SVS elevation primes. If and when we decide to move, I won’t have to deal with patching big holes if I take my speakers.

Thanks to every person on here who has given suggestions. Eventually, I’ll have a full setup and be much happier with the end results because of all your guys’ help.
happygodavid is offline  
post #30 of 34 Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,701
Mentioned: 200 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7068 Post(s)
Liked: 6073
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygodavid View Post
The good news is that I can sell them, at least break even, and just go for some small speakers like, say, SVS elevation primes.
IF you do end up with the Primes, mount them as high up as possible on the front and back walls (since you're missing a side wall). Should result in some nice phantom imaging above you.
happygodavid likes this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off