From 5.1 to 7.1 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 10 Old 11-08-2019, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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From 5.1 to 7.1

Hi,

I'm speculating a little bit here. Need to plan some purchases but don't have the room available yet for experiments. Maybe you guys can help me.

I have a 5.1 speaker set that I'll probaby configure at an 80Hz crossover frequency. I want to make it a 7.1 set. I have an extra pair of speakers with a similar frequency range as my current surrounds, but from a different brand. Should I put the different ones in the surround or in the surround back channels, does it matter at all?

Now, those extra speakers are a little bulkier than I'd like. I do have another pair of smaller speakers with a much better HAF (H = myself!) and WAF, but they don't have the same frequency range - they start at 140Hz. Does it matter now which channels I hook them up to? (I'd rather put them in the surround back for *AF reasons...)

Extra question - in the previous case, we'll lose some content between 80 and 140Hz in the surround or surround back channels, how significant is that in your opinion?

Thanks in advance,

VMat

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post #2 of 10 Old 11-09-2019, 11:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by VMat View Post
Extra question - in the previous case, we'll lose some content between 80 and 140Hz in the surround or surround back channels, how significant is that in your opinion?

If you want a good sound, honestly, it's very significant. There's a good reason, why Atmos cinema specs are demanding fullrange speakers. Directional sounds need fullrange reproduction.



Even the usually recommended 80 Hz XO is already problematic when it comes to the spatial image. The degradation of the stereo and the surround image by going from 60 to 80 Hz XO is quite significant.



But that's not the only problem: it's the upper bass and fundamentals of a sound coming from a speaker which creates a much higher SPL in only one ear, which is needed for certain powerful sound effects.
Now you can imagine what happens if speakers are not even capable to reproduce 100 Hz. Nothing with energy, from thunder, rumble in a heavy wind, atmos in a factory or space ship to directional sounds like cars, trucks or planes can be reproduced well with such a weak system.

Last edited by Skinfax1; 11-09-2019 at 11:19 AM.
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post #3 of 10 Old 11-09-2019, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
If you want a good sound, honestly, it's very significant. There's a good reason, why Atmos cinema specs are demanding fullrange speakers. Directional sounds need fullrange reproduction.



Even the usually recommended 80 Hz XO is already problematic when it comes to the spatial image. The degradation of the stereo and the surround image by going from 60 to 80 Hz XO is quite significant.



But that's not the only problem: it's the upper bass and fundamentals of a sound coming from a speaker which creates a much higher SPL in only one ear, which is needed for certain powerful sound effects.
Now you can imagine what happens if speakers are not even capable to reproduce 100 Hz. Nothing with energy, from thunder, rumble in a heavy wind, atmos in a factory or space ship to directional sounds like cars, trucks or planes can be reproduced well with such a weak system.

OK, makes perfect sense. Thanks.


Any comments on the first scenario? Different speakers with similar frequency range (while the other ones are all the same line), can we move them between surround and surround back channels?


Thanks,


VMat

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post #4 of 10 Old 11-09-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by VMat View Post
Should I put the different ones in the surround or in the surround back channels, does it matter at all?
The pair that sounds closest to your Front speakers should be the adjacent pair (Sides), since they will be blending with the Fronts to extend the soundstage and create phantom imaging between them. The pair that sounds different should be the Rears.
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post #5 of 10 Old 11-09-2019, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The pair that sounds closest to your Front speakers should be the adjacent pair (Sides), since they will be blending with the Fronts to extend the soundstage and create phantom imaging between them. The pair that sounds different should be the Rears.
Perfect, surround back it is then. Until I find another pair of BX1's.

Thanks a lot!

VMat
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post #6 of 10 Old 11-10-2019, 06:10 AM
 
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Any comments on the first scenario?

Why do you want to install more speakers instead of improving the sound really substantially by taking care of room acoustics?


Just yesterday I peeked into the awful 70s UK series "The Professionals". Although the sound is nothing extraordinary, there was a scene with talking outdoors and then continued in a car and it sounded as if the listening room physically shrank. Mono. Not any amount of speakers can give you that sound - ofcourse since its mono. The condition to hear that is a good sounding room with adequate level of direct sound (and ofcourse a certain quality of reproduction). The point I want to make is that it is the listening environment that defines the achieveable quality of reproduction. Mono mixes can sound amazing and exciting. It is not possible to achieve that sound quality by increasing the number of speakers (or subs).
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post #7 of 10 Old 11-10-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The pair that sounds closest to your Front speakers should be the adjacent pair (Sides), since they will be blending with the Fronts to extend the soundstage and create phantom imaging between them. The pair that sounds different should be the Rears.
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post #8 of 10 Old 11-10-2019, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
Why do you want to install more speakers instead of improving the sound really substantially by taking care of room acoustics?
I didn't say I won't take care of room acoustics, did I?

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Mono mixes can sound amazing and exciting. It is not possible to achieve that sound quality by increasing the number of speakers (or subs).
So should everyone ditch their AVR's and speakers and watch modern movies with 7.1 (or 5.1 or 2.0) soundtracks in a mono downmix? Sorry, I'm not following...

Cheers,

VMat
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post #9 of 10 Old 11-10-2019, 11:57 AM
 
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I didn't say I won't take care of room acoustics, did I?
And I thought I read somewhere you were planning to increase the number of channels for a "better sound"...

Quote:
So should everyone ditch their AVR's and speakers and watch modern movies with 7.1 (or 5.1 or 2.0) soundtracks in a mono downmix?
Yeah, that's what I wrote! Downmix to mono for a good sound!

Quote:
Sorry, I'm not following...
No problem. Install more speakers.
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post #10 of 10 Old 11-10-2019, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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And I thought I read somewhere you were planning to increase the number of channels for a "better sound"...

No, I didn't say that.


Thanks anyway.


VMat

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