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post #1 of 12 Old 11-13-2019, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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2 Use cases for Onkyo TX-SR604E A/V

Hello.

My targets is quite simple, get the sound from a smart TV and output it through Onkyo device to speakers for 2 scenarios in the same room:
a. talk-shows / news-> use 2 dedicated 3-way speakers for plain stereo sound
b. movies -> use 5.1 speakers

I encountered the following problems:
For scenario (a) I was not able to make the Zone 2 work, that is I can't get any sound regardless of the sound cable used: I tried with HDMI and Toslink - can you suggest a setup for this?

For scenario (b) I could not find to connect a split-wire socket for sub-woofer: I noticed that the recommended way is to use a separate powered sub but I don't have it, my sub must be connected in the same way as the rest of the 5 speakers. Could I use the "Surround back" fir it? Here I managed to get the sound using the optical wire, the HDMI didn't worked.
Another surprising fact is the sound level: The sound starts to be heard only above 30 - 35 volume level. Do you have an explanation for this and maybe a suggestion to correct this strange thing?
As a side detail the impedance differs between the 2.0 pair (8 Ohm) and the 5.1 one (4 Ohm) but I was sure to change the impedance every time.
Let me know please, thank you.
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post #2 of 12 Old 11-14-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sap777 View Post
Hello.

My targets is quite simple, get the sound from a smart TV and output it through Onkyo device to speakers for 2 scenarios in the same room:
a. talk-shows / news-> use 2 dedicated 3-way speakers for plain stereo sound
b. movies -> use 5.1 speakers
Why would you want to do this? Just trying to understand....


Quote:
I encountered the following problems:
For scenario (a) I was not able to make the Zone 2 work, that is I can't get any sound regardless of the sound cable used: I tried with HDMI and Toslink - can you suggest a setup for this?
Page 82 of your AVR's manual:

Only analog input sources are output by the ZONE 2 LINE OUT and ZONE 2 SPEAKERS terminals. Dig-ital input sources are not output.

Do any of your sources have analog (RCA) outputs? If not, you will need to upgrade to an AVR that will output digital inputs to Zone 2.


Quote:
For scenario (b) I could not find to connect a split-wire socket for sub-woofer: I noticed that the recommended way is to use a separate powered sub but I don't have it, my sub must be connected in the same way as the rest of the 5 speakers. Could I use the "Surround back" fir it?
Only if you just want to hear the bass that is being sent to the SB speakers.

What subwoofer are you using? Does it have speaker level inputs/outputs?


Quote:
Another surprising fact is the sound level: The sound starts to be heard only above 30 - 35 volume level. Do you have an explanation for this and maybe a suggestion to correct this strange thing?
Not strange at all. Your AVR has a volume range of 0-99, 30-35 should be extremely quiet, 60-70 fairly loud and around 80 extremely loud.
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post #3 of 12 Old 11-14-2019, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Why would you want to do this? Just trying to understand....


Page 82 of

Only analog input sources are output by the ZONE 2 LINE OUT and ZONE 2 SPEAKERS terminals. Dig-ital input sources are not output.

Do any of your sources have analog (RCA) outputs? If not, you will need to upgrade to an AVR that will output digital inputs to Zone 2.


Only if you just want to hear the bass that is being sent to the SB speakers.

What subwoofer are you using? Does it have speaker level inputs/outputs?


Not strange at all. Your AVR has a volume range of 0-99, 30-35 should be extremely quiet, 60-70 fairly loud and around 80 extremely loud.
Hello Alan and thank you for the time taken to reply.


For the first question: I'm considering 2 scenarios because some members of my family find annoying the 5.1 sound for mostly voice shows but will tolerate it every now and then when it comes to watching movies.
For Zone 2 I understand the my ignorance is the problem, this is supposed to accept only analog sound but...today I also tried to output using RCA(A/V input) + stereo jack the sound from my phone and the result was the same, no sound. My TV also has analog outputs so this still seems feasible for me.
What conclusion should I draw from this last test?
My 5.1 speakers belong to a DVD/home-cinema system and all of them have the same connection type and no other connection capability, the sub is just like any other speaker only bigger and with a different sound...as I said I have a simple target and reusing a decent 5.1 kit is part of that.
Will attaching an RCA jack to the sub wire make things any better? The purple RCA sub socket seem to be used for something else...

The volume range seemed to be smaller, the biggest number seen is in the 70s followed by "MAX" being displayed.
However, even in the hypothesis of what you describe that's quite strange and unexpected: I would expect a great volume control but I have total silence between 0 - 30(and that's almost half the scale)...


I'm looking forward to hearing from you.


Best regards.
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post #4 of 12 Old 11-14-2019, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sap777 View Post
Hello Alan and thank you for the time taken to reply.
You are very welcome!


Quote:
For the first question: I'm considering 2 scenarios because some members of my family find annoying the 5.1 sound for mostly voice shows but will tolerate it every now and then when it comes to watching movies.
This is venturing into "personal preference", but I would much prefer "regular" TV over 5.1 than 2.0. Without a center channel, content that is mostly voice will not image correctly unless you are seated directly between the FL/FR speakers.


Quote:
For Zone 2 I understand the my ignorance is the problem, this is supposed to accept only analog sound but...today I also tried to output using RCA(A/V input) + stereo jack the sound from my phone and the result was the same, no sound. My TV also has analog outputs so this still seems feasible for me. What conclusion should I draw from this last test?
Did you set the Powered Zone 2 setting to “Act”? See page 80 of the manual.


Quote:
My 5.1 speakers belong to a DVD/home-cinema system and all of them have the same connection type and no other connection capability, the sub is just like any other speaker only bigger and with a different sound...as I said I have a simple target and reusing a decent 5.1 kit is part of that.
These sort of systems are know as a Home Theater In a Box and typically the subwoofers are passive (i.e. they need an amplifier to function). If you didn't need to use Zone 2 for your "alternate listening setup" you could use it for the subwoofer, although far from ideal since there will be no crossover in place.


Quote:
Will attaching an RCA jack to the sub wire make things any better? The purple RCA sub socket seem to be used for something else...
No, and RCA plug will not help you.


Quote:
The volume range seemed to be smaller, the biggest number seen is in the 70s followed by "MAX" being displayed. However, even in the hypothesis of what you describe that's quite strange and unexpected: I would expect a great volume control but I have total silence between 0 - 30(and that's almost half the scale)...
The manual for your AVR specifies 99 as the upper limit, not sure what to tell you there.

What about the volume control makes you describe it as "not great"? This is completely acceptable and expected behavior. As long as you can turn it up loud enough for it to be "too loud", there is no issue.

Have you ran Audyssey? If you have not, and you got the AVR used, I highly recommend a factory reset (page 87 of the manual).


Best regards.
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post #5 of 12 Old 11-14-2019, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Again, thank you fot the time taken to reply.


I'm a bit confused on how could I use the Zone 2 for the sub-woofer, could you elaborate a bit? After all in such occasions it will not kill me to remove one speaker and attach the sub...I agree, far from ideal but still feasible.

Thank you.


Best regards.
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post #6 of 12 Old 11-14-2019, 03:09 PM
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You would just connect the subwoofer to the Zone 2 speaker posts. Of course, the subwoofer would only be active while using sources connected to the AVR with analog cables, and the subwoofer would be getting a full range signal which may make it sound not-so-good.

To know for certain whether or not this would be a good (or safe) idea, I would need to know the model # for your speaker system.
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post #7 of 12 Old 11-15-2019, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello.


My Home Cinema system is LG LH-T363SD

Are you suggesting to connect the sub to either R or L port?
Would the sound be any better if instead of the FR and FL I simply use the 3-way speakers(65Watt) initially planned for Zone 2? This is what setup will be in this case 5.0: C / RR / RL from the home cinema and 2 3-way used for FR and FL
Oh, one more very important thing, the 3-way speakers have 8 Ohm impedance compered with the 4 Ohm for the rest, if I use the simultaneously will I damage any of the parts, A/V or speakers? The room used for movies is small and I won't use the audio too loud.
Thank you.
Best regards
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post #8 of 12 Old 11-15-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sap777 View Post
Hello.


My Home Cinema system is LG LH-T363SD

Are you suggesting to connect the sub to either R or L port?
I am suggesting you connect the subwoofer to the Zone 2 (assigned) speaker posts. The subwoofer does have a dual conductor wire (i.e. speaker wire) coming out of the back of it, correct?


Quote:
Would the sound be any better if instead of the FR and FL I simply use the 3-way speakers(65Watt) initially planned for Zone 2? This is what setup will be in this case 5.0: C / RR / RL from the home cinema and 2 3-way used for FR and FL
Hard to say without knowing the model of 3-way speaker, but I would say the answer is "probably".


Quote:
Oh, one more very important thing, the 3-way speakers have 8 Ohm impedance compered with the 4 Ohm for the rest, if I use the simultaneously will I damage any of the parts, A/V or speakers?
No, you will not damage your speakers.
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post #9 of 12 Old 11-15-2019, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello.
My sub-woofer indeed has a split-wire and my question about L or R was referring to the Zone 2 in particular - you can see here:
in the upper right-hand side the 3-ways connected to the Zone 2 - should I just choose L or from there? In this picture it is also visible the cable with RCA jacks that input sound from TV in Video 3 as instructed in the manual. I noticed a strange thing: all other inputs i.e. VIDEO1, VIDEO2, DVD etc are displayed as such but VIDEO3 is displayed as HDD...any clue why this happens?


I also made 2 more pictures with A/V front panel displaying the Zone 2 setup
and also TV's sound setup

To prove that IMO the setup should output through the 3-ways the sound taken from TV...that if I'm not making a gross mistake somewhere, of course.
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post #10 of 12 Old 11-15-2019, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmmm, I can't see the pictures in my post, I attached some BOX links but I attached them here.
let me know please, thank you much.
Best regards
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post #11 of 12 Old 11-15-2019, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sap777 View Post
Hello.
My sub-woofer indeed has a split-wire and my question about L or R was referring to the Zone 2 in particular - you can see here:
in the upper right-hand side the 3-ways connected to the Zone 2 - should I just choose L or from there? In this picture it is also visible the cable with RCA jacks that input sound from TV in Video 3 as instructed in the manual. I noticed a strange thing: all other inputs i.e. VIDEO1, VIDEO2, DVD etc are displayed as such but VIDEO3 is displayed as HDD...any clue why this happens?


I also made 2 more pictures with A/V front panel displaying the Zone 2 setup
and also TV's sound setup

To prove that IMO the setup should output through the 3-ways the sound taken from TV...that if I'm not making a gross mistake somewhere, of course.
Yes, you would have to disconnect your 3 Way speakers from the Zone 2 binding posts and then choose either L or R for the subwoofer. This will be far from ideal, but at least you will get some sound from the subwoofer.

In your first pic, I only see something connected to Video 1, I cannot see Video 3. Regardless, yes, you should get audio from the TV when you select that input.

If there was previous owner, he/she may have re-labeled that input to "HDD". You could look in the manual to see if you can change it.
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post #12 of 12 Old 11-21-2019, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Yes, you would have to disconnect your 3 Way speakers from the Zone 2 binding posts and then choose either L or R for the subwoofer. This will be far from ideal, but at least you will get some sound from the subwoofer.

In your first pic, I only see something connected to Video 1, I cannot see Video 3. Regardless, yes, you should get audio from the TV when you select that input.

If there was previous owner, he/she may have re-labeled that input to "HDD". You could look in the manual to see if you can change it.
Thank you for all the help, that really meant a lot to me.
I'm currently using the 5.0 setup described below - let me say that the sound is pretty impressive and due to the 3-way speakers the subwoofer is not missed at all - and still have 2 back-up speakers in case I want to go wild and use all 7 .
My biggest known no-no was the use of mixes impedance speakers, that's something I learned in my childhood. Onkyo seems to be permissive or adaptive maybe and so far so good, nothing burnt.
Again big warm "Thank you" Alan.
Best regards.
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