Can't figure out my setup, I desperately need help - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't figure out my setup, I desperately need help

Hi guys... I've been doing research for the past months and I have to say I am running out of ideas.

I currently have 2 ELAC Unifi UB5 and 1 UC5 as my LCR and 2 ELAC B5 as my surrounds.

A quick look at my picture will quickly highlight many of the challenges of my setup... Speaker near walls, open living room, windows, couch near wall , etc... (don't judge me for the plant on the left speaker)

Based on my room and the Wife factor its highly unlikely I can get proper clearance/ speaker placement with my current setup ... I have been researching In-Wall and On-Wall speakers for about a month now and I'm trying to find something that will offer me equal or better sound quality to what I have at the moment. To make things even more complex the left side of the tv is actually connected to an exterior wall as per the plan making it a no go for just a regular in-wall install

Feel free to correct me but it seems my option are now

1. To create a frame on top of my wall to keep in-wall as an option ( is that even possible or would that bust the acoustic of the speaker ?
2. Find good On-Wall. I fell in love with the Paradigm Signature W5 but of course they are discontinued.... I haven't found anything comparable yet... any suggestions ?!

What would you recommend for LCR and Surround for someone in my situation ...

Thank you
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post #2 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 10:37 PM
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Would wife be against having a sofa table behind the sofa? A good place for plants 😉 . Pull sofa forward, put table behind. Flank with surrounds. Move front left onto a stand and move to the left in front of window to widen soundstage.

New speakers aren't gonna solve placement issues.
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post #3 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Chan View Post
Would wife be against having a sofa table behind the sofa? A good place for plants 😉 . Pull sofa forward, put table behind. Flank with surrounds. Move front left onto a stand and move to the left in front of window to widen soundstage.

New speakers aren't gonna solve placement issues.

I guess the reason I was considering On-Wall/In-Wall was cause they are designed to be placed on walls so I assume they wouldn't have the same issue as bookshelf speaker in front of a wall.

In term of Sofa Table behind, I might check and see if I can get her buy-in, it definitely a possibility. As for the left speaker I have the stand, I could do that. You feel this is the best solution for my room ?

Would having speaker with front vent help improve things or not at all ?

thanks for the help I appreciate
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post #4 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 11:05 PM
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What exactly are you looking to improve about the sound? Lack of immersiveness? Weak bass? Trouble with dialogue?

In any case, playing around with the room layout and speaker placement is free so no harm in trying that first.

As for vents, with the sofa pulled forward, none of your speakers need to tight to a wall so rear ported is fine.

Marantz SR7013, Polk Signature S60s/S30/S15s/HTS12s, Polk MC80 (x4), AC Infinity T9/S9, AAB4 HTPC,...still to come - Panasonic DP-UB820K, 82" 4K QLED or eqv.

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post #5 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Chan View Post
What exactly are you looking to improve about the sound? Lack of immersiveness? Weak bass? Trouble with dialogue?

I'm any case, playing around with the room layout and speaker placement is free so no harm in trying that first.

As for vents, with the sofa pulled forward, none of your speakers need to tight to a wall so rear ported is fine.

I guess the overall impressiveness as the speakers in the back are so close to seating place and one is facing a corner.

Also I guess my bass (dayton Sub 1000) really isn't on par with the rest of my setup. I was considering upgrading to something like a SVS PB1000 or PC1000 but I dont have room to have 2 in the front with the 2 speaker stands (something onwall/inwall could resolve. should I get 1 bigger base in this room layout vs 2 smaller ?
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post #6 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 11:27 PM
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Your surrounds are currently aimed too far forward. They should be more or less aimed at each other.

Adding a sub like the SVS will definitely help. They both don't have to be in front either. You can put one behind you next to the sofa table. As long as you cross it over at 80hz, you wont be able to locate it.

Marantz SR7013, Polk Signature S60s/S30/S15s/HTS12s, Polk MC80 (x4), AC Infinity T9/S9, AAB4 HTPC,...still to come - Panasonic DP-UB820K, 82" 4K QLED or eqv.

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post #7 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 11:30 PM
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Two things, one easy, the other perhaps not bad.

Lay out the front so the center's in the middle, of the L/R speakers and the display.

Mount the surrounds high on the wall, after you put something behind the seats to get your ears away from the wall.

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #8 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 11:38 PM
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Make your layout look like this...or as close as possible.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/su...5-1-setup.html

Marantz SR7013, Polk Signature S60s/S30/S15s/HTS12s, Polk MC80 (x4), AC Infinity T9/S9, AAB4 HTPC,...still to come - Panasonic DP-UB820K, 82" 4K QLED or eqv.
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post #9 of 16 Old 11-19-2019, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I can definitely try that. I guess I was really focusing on proximity to wall which I thought was the biggest problem. As for the Left speaker I left it there cause I thought it be a problem in front of the window
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post #10 of 16 Old 11-19-2019, 07:42 AM
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To echo what others have said, you need to move the front left speaker over close to the wall/window and toed in the same as the right front if you want any kind of decent balance to your sound stage. And your two rear speakers should be facing in toward each other rather than facing forward.
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post #11 of 16 Old 11-19-2019, 01:42 PM
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Man that’s a lot of plants
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post #12 of 16 Old 11-19-2019, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snutze View Post
I guess the overall impressiveness as the speakers in the back are so close to seating place and one is facing a corner.

Also I guess my bass (dayton Sub 1000) really isn't on par with the rest of my setup. I was considering upgrading to something like a SVS PB1000 or PC1000 but I dont have room to have 2 in the front with the 2 speaker stands (something onwall/inwall could resolve. should I get 1 bigger base in this room layout vs 2 smaller ?
If you could convince your wife to go for that table behind the couch, you could maybe squeeze a sub (or two!) back there as well.

Concerning the surround speakers; with such a tight space and assuming that you each sit at opposite ends of the couch, I suggest mounting the surrounds high on the rear wall, pointing mostly forward. The way you have it now, the person sitting on the left is getting blasted by the left surround and vice versa. Getting them high up on the wall will provide more reflected than direct sound and will give you a much more diffuse soundfield. To give you an idea of how that would sound, lay your speakers on their backs on your current stands so they are facing the ceiling, then re-calibrate the trim levels.

If you aren't married to those particular speakers, I would even suggest replacing them with dipole surrounds, also mounted high on the rear wall.
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post #13 of 16 Old 11-21-2019, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting no I am not married to any of my speaker and looking at all opportunities I already applied all the recos for my front except for the sofa table (WIP) you are absolutely correct about the speaker being right in our ear and I didnt wall mount anything cause of the whole cant have apeaker near wall. Thats why I was asking about if there were great onwall inwall option
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post #14 of 16 Old 11-21-2019, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Any dipole you would recommend I had never researches that
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post #15 of 16 Old 11-22-2019, 01:26 AM
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Before buying new speakers, try pulling sofa 18" away from rear wall and aim your surrounds at each other. I would go with dipoles as a last resort as they aren't ideal for today's discreet surround channels.

Marantz SR7013, Polk Signature S60s/S30/S15s/HTS12s, Polk MC80 (x4), AC Infinity T9/S9, AAB4 HTPC,...still to come - Panasonic DP-UB820K, 82" 4K QLED or eqv.
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post #16 of 16 Old 11-22-2019, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snutze View Post
... I didn't wall mount anything cause of the whole can't have a speaker near wall. ...
Wall mounting involves a trade-off, but like all trade-offs this one has a "But if you do this... everything's fine" option.

Here's a link that shows what happens when you mount a free-standing speaker on a wall. Scroll down a little, and you'll find diagrams and charts excerpted from Floyd Toole's book showing freestanding speaker response, and how it changes as you wall mount it in various ways. Note that we've suggested the wall placement shown on the right in the second pair, "on wall installation."
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...peaker-Designs

The "on-wall installation" chart's on-axis response shows a strong dip at ~200Hz, due to the Allison Effect, an interaction with the reflected wave from the wall. The frequency depends on the depth of the speaker, how far the drivers are from the wall. HOWEVER, that dip is in the direct, on-axis response. By placing the speakers above you, facing the front wall, you're going to hear the "Sound Power" response. That has a gentle rise at low frequencies that most AVR room correction systems can easily eliminate. (Look up "baffle step compensation" if you're interested why.)

If high-mounted, front-facing doesn't do it, bipole/dipole speakers are the next option. These use two identical drives playing the same signal, one in phase (bipole), the other out of phase (dipole). (Most of these have a switch for polarity.) This produces a strongly varying sound field pattern that we humans perceive as a diffuse sound field. At a given distance, they are harder to locate than conventional speakers.

So... space your front speakers away from the wall, for good on-axis response, and don't worry so much about the surrounds in the suggested placement. It's a sweet spot application where the on-wall issues don't matter.

HAve fun,
Frank
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