Need some guidance on speaker placement so I don't mess it up. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By NewShockerGuy
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 01-05-2020, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Arrow Need some guidance on speaker placement so I don't mess it up.

Long time lurker and just don't post that often in the many years of being here but I wanted to ask a couple questions. I used to be REALLY into HT stuff back probably 10 years ago. Then with life and other stuff most of my HT stuff went into the closet at our house that we moved into years ago. I'm redoing our basement and figured now is the opportune time to setup my speakers again.

I just bought a 75" Sony 905G and I am blown away at the picture quality. (Been using my wife's 47" Visio that's 12 years old) It's also truly crazy how much different it is from my 40" Samsung that now looks like a little baby tv. I bought the TV knowing that the basement was going to be nice so onto the speakers. I have enough speakers to do a 7.1 setup. We really don't watch enough TV or movies. MAYBE 1 hour a day streaming netflix/prime... I do not own a bluray player other than a PS3 that I used for netflix/prime streaming. I don't game other than dinky xbox 360 games or retropi...

I have all Def Tech speakers. I love them a lot, they look nice and sound nice.. Mythos 1's for the front floor standing speakers, Mythos 3 for the center channel. Then for surrounds I have two sizes of Def Techs ProCinema Promonitor100 MK II, and slightly smaller ProCinema ProMonitor 80 MK II. I also have a DefTech SuperCube for the sub-woofer. I have two receivers, mind you they are older but I think for my purpose they are fine. Pretty much untouched for the last 8 years. Yamaha htr-6090, and a Denon avr-2805. Both support 7.1 speaker setups. When I had my little HT room in our other house I used the Yamaha, and I like it. I've always preferred Yamaha, so I will more than likely use that over the Denon for the basement. I would like to use all of this stuff and not have to go out and buy new to be honest. It feels like a waste to not use all this so that's why I was going towards a 7.1 setup over the 5.1, just so I can use all my speakers that have been sitting. Plus I really can't justify buying all new equipment knowing how little TV/movies we watch.

Now onto the room/pictures below. PLEASE excuse the mess... basement is a wreck until I finish the floor, baseboards, crown molding, new french door, kitchenette, and get furniture and hang the TV. The way that the room is setup it looks like I can easily hang two rear speakers on the back wall. One on each side of the window. I was thinking the smaller Promonitor 80 MKII. Next question would be where do I put the rear sides? Do I put them on the side of the walls, or the angled walls facing the couch? The blue tape on the ground is a ROUGH idea on the couch location... it could change but ideally it's in the center of that nook in the room. I figured for the side rear speakers the larger Promonitor 100 MKII would be better since more sound would come from those than the rear backs? (Am I correct in assuming this) I DO have another pair of Promonitor 80 MKII but they are silver while the rest of the speakers are black... so that is the only reason why the rears wouldn't match in size. I think it would look bad having all black speakers than having two rear silver speaker even though all rears would be identical size.

Front wall where I will wall mount the 75" Sony. Don't mind the blue tape that's where the studs are and I am not hanging the TV that high. It will be slightly above the tv stand but more likely at about 3-5" above eye level. This will enable me to be able to put something small like a apple tv or retro pie on the top of the tv stand.

*The width of the area where the couch and speakers would be is 189 inches or 15.75ft
*The length of the room from the front wall where the TV would mount to the rear most part under the window is: 228 inches or 19ft
*We will be sittin roughly 160-200" or 13ft-16ft from the front room to the TV.

I've marked the pictures where I THINK the speakers should go (not necessary the height, just the walls) Any recommendations on the height... I keep reading at ear level when seated, but I can't help but think that would look really stupid plus someone possibly hitting them if they walked to the back or sides of the area to clean and knock a speaker off the wall if they were only 4' off the ground. If I mounted them higher and angle them down towards the person/couch is that better? Better to wall mount or use speaker stands? I think wall mounting is way cleaner but on stands then you can move the speakers around and they might not look as bad being at ear level.. just more stuff that's around to clutter up the space?

Hope the pictures help. If you need anymore pictures of anything please let me know or any other information on my part that would help clarify something I have no problem... I just want to make this look nice and sound nice. Note paint diagrams are not to scale..lol

Pic1. Back wall where couch and rear speakers.
Pic2. Back wall angle right side.
Pic3. Back wall angle left side.
Pic4. Front wall where TV/speakers would be. (Not to scale just rough placement give or take)
Pic5. Closer view of back wall angle right side.
Pic6. Closer view of back wall angle left side.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	344.5 KB
ID:	2664916   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	325.9 KB
ID:	2664918   Click image for larger version

Name:	3.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	275.3 KB
ID:	2664920   Click image for larger version

Name:	4.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	318.3 KB
ID:	2664922   Click image for larger version

Name:	5.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	290.6 KB
ID:	2664924  

Click image for larger version

Name:	6.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	326.1 KB
ID:	2664926  

__________________________________

~NSG~
NewShockerGuy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 01-05-2020, 03:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,032
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 435 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Might be good to pull the couch out a little bit more than shown to get a bit of distance to the back wall and back speakers.
Surrounds should go to the side of the couch 90(to 110) degrees.
Might be nice to spread the main front speakers a bit more also for a wider soundstage but might not be shown right as you said.

Old AVRs dont support 4k (HDCP2.2) so that can cause issues if you use 4k sources.

Good luck with a nice setup, and hopefully you will be able to use it more also.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Leeliemix is online now  
post #3 of 24 Old 01-05-2020, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Might be good to pull the couch out a little bit more than shown to get a bit of distance to the back wall and back speakers.
Surrounds should go to the side of the couch 90(to 110) degrees.
Might be nice to spread the main front speakers a bit more also for a wider soundstage but might not be shown right as you said.

Old AVRs dont support 4k (HDCP2.2) so that can cause issues if you use 4k sources.

Good luck with a nice setup, and hopefully you will be able to use it more also.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks for the info. So then ideally the ProMonitor 100's should be here as indicated in the attached picture, via the side walls.
Yep right now everything is just rough, nothing set in stone. So I am sure the couch and front speaker will move. The tv we have is a smart TV so it's got all the 4k stuff in it. The receiver I would only use for sound, no video switching or anything like that other than component devices to hdmi. So optical from the TV to the receiver and all video inputs would just go into the TV that would be true 4k. As it sits now I don't have any 4k devices other than the TV.

-Nigel
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1edited.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	362.1 KB
ID:	2664964  

__________________________________

~NSG~
NewShockerGuy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 Old 01-05-2020, 04:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,032
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 435 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Looks good

The height of the surrounds depend a bit on Atmos at a later date or not, if height or ceiling speakers then best to have the base layer at ear level or not far above so there is separation between that and the rop layer. If no Atmos then its fine to mount the surrounds higher up, possibly pointing them somewhat at ear level, this can be a benefit as it gives a little more distance to the speakers if couch is far back against the wall but hopefully you can get it a little forward so shouldnt need to put them very high at least.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Leeliemix is online now  
post #5 of 24 Old 01-05-2020, 04:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,518
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3089 Post(s)
Liked: 2884
I'd put the side surrounds at 80 degrees to the seated ear (i.e. slightly in front of the seated head). Lots of folks have commented that they like this layout best when using rear surrounds. For the rear surrounds, you want to aim them towards the side seat opposite. This will help to disperse the sound to all the seats on the couch and limit the speaker in your ear syndrome that is so annoying to folks seated close to any speaker. The surrounds should also be slightly above ear level. The goal is to avoid any one speaker overwhelming the others for all the seating positions..

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
RayGuy is online now  
post #6 of 24 Old 01-05-2020, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
I'd put the side surrounds at 80 degrees to the seated ear (i.e. slightly in front of the seated head). Lots of folks have commented that they like this layout best when using rear surrounds. For the rear surrounds, you want to aim them towards the side seat opposite. This will help to disperse the sound to all the seats on the couch and limit the speaker in your ear syndrome that is so annoying to folks seated close to any speaker. The surrounds should also be slightly above ear level. The goal is to avoid any one speaker overwhelming the others for all the seating positions..
I'm not sure if I could do 80 degrees by mounting them on the side walls? Do you think that's possible or is it better to not mount the speakers on the walls at all and use speaker stands? My fear is that if they are slightly above ear level mounted on the walls they would look too low?

For the rear surrounds I did a crude sketch on paint. Is this the direction you mean when setting them up? Obviously not as amplified but angled so that the sound goes in the direction of the arrows.

Thanks for the help!

-Nigel
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	speaker direction.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	334.1 KB
ID:	2665066  

__________________________________

~NSG~
NewShockerGuy is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 01-05-2020, 11:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,518
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3089 Post(s)
Liked: 2884
Yes, as you diagrammed for the rears. Putting the side surrounds on stands is a good idea, at least until you arrive at a permanent position for the couch. Once you are happy with the layout and the sound, if you have the ability to mount then to the wall, then do so. Otherwise, continue with the stands and hope the dog doesn't knock them over! Whatever works for you.

BTW, it's always a good idea to experiment with different speaker positions, height, width, toe-in, rake (angle up/down) before permanently mounting them to the wall.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 01-05-2020 at 11:28 PM.
RayGuy is online now  
post #8 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 07:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Corpus Christi, TX USA
Posts: 3,244
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked: 390
You need some distance between the couch and back wall in order to effectively do 7.1 – see the link to Dolby’s recommended floor plan below (ignore the recommendation for ear-height – that’s very bad advice). If you can’t do that, you should just stick with 5.1 and sell the extra speakers.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/su...7-1-setup.html

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Equipment List
"A nice mid-fi system," according to an audiophile acquaintance.

Reviews and Tech Articles
Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne A. Pflughaupt View Post
You need some distance between the couch and back wall in order to effectively do 7.1 – see the link to Dolby’s recommended floor plan below (ignore the recommendation for ear-height – that’s very bad advice). If you can’t do that, you should just stick with 5.1 and sell the extra speakers.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/su...7-1-setup.html

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Thanks for the link Wayne,


I might be missing something on Dolby's website but when I am looking at the 7.1 setup but up top it says "Choose a central seating point and angle your speakers at it, keeping them at your ear height when you are seated, unless noted otherwise."


Then towards the bottom when you click on the speakers it states the angles at which the speaker should be set at but not the height or distance.


What would you recommend for speaker height on both sides and rear? Can I ask you why ear level is bad advice? I'm just looking for the best general scenario for my case in terms of using the speakers and enjoying other things if need be. IE: If we have people over, I'm sure my wife would want music to play through all the speakers and if I understand correctly if listening to music you'd actually position the speakers differently than if you were solely watching movies. So perhaps an in-between of movies/streaming and listening to music through this setup would be best?


Thanks for your help!
-Nigel

__________________________________

~NSG~
NewShockerGuy is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trilkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 1,312
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 703 Post(s)
Liked: 370
That Super Cube isnt going to do much there. Rest looks good. Nice setup for surrounds too! It would almost be better to go with dipole/bipole speakers for the rear surrounds though.

- 6 x Boston Acoustic CR6 Frankencenter, Boston Acoustic CR8 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 x jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
trilkb is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
That Super Cube isnt going to do much there. Rest looks good. Nice setup for surrounds too! It would almost be better to go with dipole/bipole speakers for the rear surrounds though.
The super cube isn't going to do much because of it's size or should it be moved somewhere else? I've never used or heard of dipole/bipole speakers until Googling it now. Are you familiar with Def Tech's Mythos Gem? They appear to have speakers pointing opposite so sound would be coming out the sides like a dipole/bipole speaker.


Edit: I stand corrected, this is what I should have linked to the bipole speaker from DefTech.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F7AIDA6...Q2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


Thanks,
-Nigel

__________________________________

~NSG~

Last edited by NewShockerGuy; 01-06-2020 at 09:36 AM.
NewShockerGuy is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 12:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trilkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 1,312
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 703 Post(s)
Liked: 370
Yea the placement isnt going to let it do much. Every room is different but almost every room benefits from a subwoofer more in a corner. You can also do a subwoofer crawl.

The bipole design really just throws more sound around, so if you are close to one speaker and not another it can help.

- 6 x Boston Acoustic CR6 Frankencenter, Boston Acoustic CR8 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 x jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
trilkb is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 01:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Corpus Christi, TX USA
Posts: 3,244
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewShockerGuy View Post
What would you recommend for speaker height on both sides and rear? Can I ask you why ear level is bad advice?
I don’t know why Dolby recommends back speakers at ear-level. You certainly don’t see any movie theaters set up that way.

The problem in a small room like yours is that if you have multiple people sitting on the couch, it’s inevitable that the people sitting on the sides are only going to hear the surround speaker closest to them – the “in your ear syndrome” that RayGuy noted in Post #5 . I’ve seen systems like that, and it is indeed highly annoying – typically you’ll hear the speaker right next to your ear louder than even the front speakers. Not good.

The only away to avoid this problem is to get the speakers some distance from the seating. I prefer the sides or back speakers to be at least 6 ft. from the seating. I realize that’s not always possible, but much less than that is going to result in compromised sound.

One trick I’ve done when I’ve been stuck with rear speakers too close is to reduce their treble via equalization. If you have speakers no more than a few feet from the listener, you basically have near-field monitors. Speakers designed for near-field listening typically have reduced treble output. With regular speakers at standard distances (say 10 ft. or more) you get this treble reduction “automatically,” as the highs are naturally attenuated over distance in air. Normal home theater speakers are not designed as near-field monitors, even those designated as rear surround speakers. Thus, some EQ applied to reduce the treble of too-close rear speakers will help make them sound farther away than they really are. If that makes sense.

Likewise, I’ve always felt that rear speakers higher than the fronts makes for a more “immersive” sound. To me, ground-level surrounds get a system that just sounds “flat” and one-dimensional. I’d make sure the tweeters for the chosen speakers are no less than 6 to 6-1/2 ft high.

So, those two things – getting the speakers up higher and attenuating the treble – can help compensate for rear speakers that must be closer to the seating than optimal. It also helps those sitting on the sides of the couch hear both speakers, instead of just the one closest to them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NewShockerGuy View Post
I'm just looking for the best general scenario for my case in terms of using the speakers and enjoying other things if need be. IE: If we have people over, I'm sure my wife would want music to play through all the speakers and if I understand correctly if listening to music you'd actually position the speakers differently than if you were solely watching movies. So perhaps an in-between of movies/streaming and listening to music through this setup would be best?
Rear speakers with special positioning for music listening would only be relevant for something like SACD or other formats or programming specifically mixed for multichannel sitting, with the listener seated at the center of the couch. That has nothing to do with a “people milling around the room during a party” situation. For that, your home theater speaker arrangement is fine, with the receiver in “5-Channel Stereo” mode or similar.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Equipment List
"A nice mid-fi system," according to an audiophile acquaintance.

Reviews and Tech Articles
Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
Yea the placement isnt going to let it do much. Every room is different but almost every room benefits from a subwoofer more in a corner. You can also do a subwoofer crawl.

The bipole design really just throws more sound around, so if you are close to one speaker and not another it can help.
I could possibly move the supercube to the back corner of the wall? That might make it bounce the low frequencies around more rather than the front which is more open and no real walls surround it?
Kinda sucks about the room layout but in all reality I gotta make it work at least somewhat...lol. We do have a room that would actually be ideal for a home theater room as it's a long rectangle that is closed off by doors. The only problem is I wouldn't have any room to do my IT/Gun/Modding stuff so unfortunately that takes priority over the HT stuff since it's used way more all the time. I think what I am probably going to have to do is set up the speakers once I get the floor down and then just start moving things around and seeing what sounds best. Way easier to do than once everything is done and the wires are in the wall via a semi perm scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne A. Pflughaupt View Post
I don’t know why Dolby recommends back speakers at ear-level. You certainly don’t see any movie theaters set up that way.

The problem in a small room like yours is that if you have multiple people sitting on the couch, it’s inevitable that the people sitting on the sides are only going to hear the surround speaker closest to them – the “in your ear syndrome” that RayGuy noted in Post #5 . I’ve seen systems like that, and it is indeed highly annoying – typically you’ll hear the speaker right next to your ear louder than even the front speakers. Not good.

The only away to avoid this problem is to get the speakers some distance from the seating. I prefer the sides or back speakers to be at least 6 ft. from the seating. I realize that’s not always possible, but much less than that is going to result in compromised sound.

One trick I’ve done when I’ve been stuck with rear speakers too close is to reduce their treble via equalization. If you have speakers no more than a few feet from the listener, you basically have near-field monitors. Speakers designed for near-field listening typically have reduced treble output. With regular speakers at standard distances (say 10 ft. or more) you get this treble reduction “automatically,” as the highs are naturally attenuated over distance in air. Normal home theater speakers are not designed as near-field monitors, even those designated as rear surround speakers. Thus, some EQ applied to reduce the treble of too-close rear speakers will help make them sound farther away than they really are. If that makes sense.

Likewise, I’ve always felt that rear speakers higher than the fronts makes for a more “immersive” sound. To me, ground-level surrounds get a system that just sounds “flat” and one-dimensional. I’d make sure the tweeters for the chosen speakers are no less than 6 to 6-1/2 ft high.

So, those two things – getting the speakers up higher and attenuating the treble – can help compensate for rear speakers that must be closer to the seating than optimal. It also helps those sitting on the sides of the couch hear both speakers, instead of just the one closest to them.



Rear speakers with special positioning for music listening would only be relevant for something like SACD or other formats or programming specifically mixed for multichannel sitting, with the listener seated at the center of the couch. That has nothing to do with a “people milling around the room during a party” situation. For that, your home theater speaker arrangement is fine, with the receiver in “5-Channel Stereo” mode or similar.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Wayne,

Thank you for all the info! I just started measuring... at 6' from the back wall the couch is going to be too far forward, so that stinks. Definitely not getting 6' from behind... I guess the positive to that is I can mount the rear speakers higher then and angle them down with the def tech wall mounts. It's not going to be perfect but, I think it's going to look nicer because they aren't going to be at ear level, they won't be on stands so they won't get in the way to have more clutter on the floor and I can make it look clean from mounting them up somewhat higher. My OCD is kicking in and now I want to go and buy some Mthos Gems to match the rest of the Mythos that I have...lol But, what is going to end up happening is I would buy 4 new Gems, then immediate say get a new receiver, so another $1,500 for that, and it would just keep climbing I'm sure. I think if I do a dry run on running wire and placement of speaker I can get a good compromise onto having a nice setup for the space. I think that's ideally what I am going for now. The shape/size of the room isn't ideal now looking at it and because of such, I just have to work with what I have. It's definitely going to be WAY better than listening to the 47" Visio 12 year old tv's speaker that we've been used for for the last 9 years. My biggest thing at stages like this is not going down a certain path thinking I would be happy but then realizing if I would have just dropped the money or time with plan A, I'd be happy and not second guess something. Appreciate the info on the treble, that's something I probably wouldn't even have thought of.

Thanks much,
-Nigel

__________________________________

~NSG~
NewShockerGuy is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 02:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trilkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 1,312
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 703 Post(s)
Liked: 370
Just do a sub crawl, super easy to do. Put the sub in your seat, turn on some bass heavy music. Then go put your head where the sub would go on the floor. You look like an idiot but it works.

- 6 x Boston Acoustic CR6 Frankencenter, Boston Acoustic CR8 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 x jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
trilkb is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 04:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Corpus Christi, TX USA
Posts: 3,244
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewShockerGuy View Post
I could possibly move the supercube to the back corner of the wall? That might make it bounce the low frequencies around more rather than the front which is more open and no real walls surround it?
Unfortunately, that room is probably a lost-cause for subwoofers, as there doesn’t appear to be anything resembling a symmetrical corner to be found. You can use REW to figure out the location that gets the least-poor location. Or just “sub-crawl” as trilkb suggested. My current situation gets me a sub graph that looks like suck, but fortunately it doesn’t sound as bad as it measures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NewShockerGuy View Post
The shape/size of the room isn't ideal now looking at it and because of such, I just have to work with what I have.
Well, join the rest of us! Most people don’t have ideal rooms but have to work with what we have. Like you said,
It's definitely going to be way better than what you had before, even if it isn’t textbook-perfect.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Equipment List
"A nice mid-fi system," according to an audiophile acquaintance.

Reviews and Tech Articles
Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 07:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,518
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3089 Post(s)
Liked: 2884
Mythos Gems are a pretty good little speaker, however the Mythos Gem XL is not (uneven frequency response), and that is the only option available new (the Mythos line has been discontinued). So, look for the Mythos Gems in the used market and avoid the XL version ...

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 01-06-2020 at 07:47 PM.
RayGuy is online now  
post #18 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Mythos Gems are a pretty good little speaker, however the Mythos Gem XL is not (uneven frequency response), and that is the only option available new (the Mythos line has been discontinued). So, look for the Mythos Gems in the used market and avoid the XL version ...
I appreciate that... I was actually looking at the XL only because they were taller at 12" compared to the 10" normal Gem.. Going to ask a stupid question. Would the Mythos Gems (1st gen) sound better than the Promonitor 100 MKII and the Promonitor 80 MKII that I have? It seems like the Gems are about as tall as the ProMon100 that I have when measuring. The biggest difference that I can see with the Gem is that the speakers are pointing opposite so it should disperse the sound more in all directions.

Thanks much,
-Nigel

__________________________________

~NSG~
NewShockerGuy is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 10:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,518
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3089 Post(s)
Liked: 2884
Never heard the ProMonitor, so can't speak to that sound quality, but having heard the Mythos Gem, it should make an excellent surround speaker in your situation. I heard them used as both main L&R and as surround speakers and was impressed with the ability of the little guys ... If you want to start with the ProMonitor to see if it works well for you, then I would start there. If you are dissatisfied, then look to obtain the Gems, which appear to be available on eBay (but verify they are NOT the XL version).

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 01-06-2020 at 10:13 PM.
RayGuy is online now  
post #20 of 24 Old 01-06-2020, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Never heard the ProMonitor, so can't speak to that sound quality, but having heard the Mythos Gem, it should make an excellent surround speaker in your situation. I heard them used as both main L&R and as surround speakers and was impressed with the ability of the little guys ... If you want to start with the ProMonitor to see if it works well for you, then I would start there. If you are dissatisfied, then look to obtain the Gems, which appear to be available on eBay (but verify they are NOT the XL version).
When I had this setup years ago I only did a 5.1. The Mythos 1s were up front along with the Mythos 3. Then I used the Promonitor 100 MKII's in the rear. I thought it was really great to be honest. What bothered me was the fact that they didn't match the Mythos line. Now looking in the closet I pretty much have an entire Pro cinema series, via the center channel and promonitors 100s/80s..

I found the Gems on Amazon. They had 6 left... I bought two pairs. Appear to be brand new and the company has good reviews:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

At $250 for the pair that's a decent deal to me. Still can't believe I bought it but now I am happy that everything will match and I won't have different size speakers on the rear wall. This should actually look much better. I am going to use all the Promonitor speakers I have for my computer rig. My Klipsch promedia 5.1 sub went so I will just use my other receiver and do a 5.1 surround for my computer so nothing really goes to waste now. Plus these smaller book shelf speaker will actually make more sense on the computer desk and not take up a crazy amount of room. Win win I guess.

I do know the Gems come with a flat wall mount bracket. Would you recommend using that on the above walls or should I get their swivel mount (pro mount 80/90 I think) to use with the gems and still "angle" them towards the center area where the couch will be?

Appreciate all the help!

-Nigel

__________________________________

~NSG~
NewShockerGuy is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 01-07-2020, 12:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,518
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3089 Post(s)
Liked: 2884
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewShockerGuy View Post
When I had this setup years ago I only did a 5.1. The Mythos 1s were up front along with the Mythos 3. Then I used the Promonitor 100 MKII's in the rear. I thought it was really great to be honest. What bothered me was the fact that they didn't match the Mythos line. Now looking in the closet I pretty much have an entire Pro cinema series, via the center channel and promonitors 100s/80s..

I found the Gems on Amazon. They had 6 left... I bought two pairs. Appear to be brand new and the company has good reviews:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

At $250 for the pair that's a decent deal to me. Still can't believe I bought it but now I am happy that everything will match and I won't have different size speakers on the rear wall. This should actually look much better. I am going to use all the Promonitor speakers I have for my computer rig. My Klipsch promedia 5.1 sub went so I will just use my other receiver and do a 5.1 surround for my computer so nothing really goes to waste now. Plus these smaller book shelf speaker will actually make more sense on the computer desk and not take up a crazy amount of room. Win win I guess.

I do know the Gems come with a flat wall mount bracket. Would you recommend using that on the above walls or should I get their swivel mount (pro mount 80/90 I think) to use with the gems and still "angle" them towards the center area where the couch will be?

Appreciate all the help!

-Nigel
Rears angled, sides flat or sides on stands, as mentioned earlier. Experiment before any permanent mounting.

Good find on those speakers. Also, good use of the remaining speakers for your PC system ... win/win

BTW, did you verify that they are NOT the XL? In the questions section they say the speaker height is 12", not 10"

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 01-07-2020 at 10:57 AM.
RayGuy is online now  
post #22 of 24 Old 01-07-2020, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I checked the item description and it had all the information listed for the normal Gem not the XL. I also checked their eBay auction and it also states normal Gem, they also sell the Gem XL but it's $350 each compared to $250 for the pair of normal Gem.. I wonder why DefTech made the XL worse than the original, and why it's so much more expensive? Seems strange. Had you not said anything I would have naturally assumed the XL would be better.


EDIT: Just verified they are in fact the normal Gems, not XL. So that's perfect!


Appreciate all the help. I feel better now knowing that this should all come together as nicely as it can given the space. Reason I asked about the speaker placement again is because with these Gems they are I guess somewhat bi-poleish because they are angled left and right. So I wasn't sure if angling the rear like we talked about earlier would actually affect anything worse since they are already angled. But totally agree with you, testing and tweaking placement is going to be key.


Excited honestly. Makes me want to now get a bigger sub, and updated Yamaha receiver, then use the existing stuff for my computer rig...lol but... going down that rabbit hole seems like it's going to just be $$$$ ahahah!


-Nigel

__________________________________

~NSG~

Last edited by NewShockerGuy; 01-07-2020 at 09:28 PM.
NewShockerGuy is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 01-10-2020, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NewShockerGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Welp got the Mythos Gems yesterday. I really love how they look. They match the Mythos 1's and 3 perfectly. I tested multiple things. Crudely hooked all the speakers up for the first test to include Mythos 1,3, Promon 100 and 80MKII. Sounded good. Supercube was nice as well. Filled the room with sound/bass.

Disconnected the MKII's and hooked up all gems in the rear/side. Played the same thing. It could be my ears but it sounded better and it seemed like it "filled" the room with music, a much more even spread perhaps? I think I was smiling the entire time.

I should be getting some promounts for the gems so I can get them off the floor and up and angled at the seating arrangement once we get to that point as I progress through the basement work. I thought I might not be able to fill the room with sound. My wife was on a conference call in her office upstairs and the people on the phone with her asked her what was going on. She said apparently my husband is having a party..lol She told me she could feel it through the floor. Super happy!

Thanks for all the help! I'm stoked to be able to listen to the system again. I didn't realize how much I missed this until turning it all back on! :-)

-Nigel
RayGuy likes this.

__________________________________

~NSG~
NewShockerGuy is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 01-10-2020, 02:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Geraldton - 250miles from Perth Western Australia
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Have you considered pulling your couch a long way forward ? Sitting 160-200" from a 75" screen is too far - I sit 135" from a 165" screen !!
I can't see from the pics but I assume the room is open on both sides apart from the alcove where you are proposing to ut the couch ? In which case moving it to say 100" from the screen will give you a better viewing experience and would allow you to position the side surrounds on stands at a decent distance to stop hotspotting. If they would be in the way normally then maybe you could just pull them out for movies etc.
This will also put the rear surrounds at a better distance too. And it will be allow a better Atmos height speaker placement if you decide to upgrade later.

If moving the couch to 100" means you cannot do side surrounds then you may want to consider doing a 5.1.2 Atmos setup now. Put the surrounds on the froward facing end of the alcove wall (where the piece of wood is leaning in your photos) and then ceiling mount 2 of your existing speakers above the seating. This is almost a no-compromise setup and will be much more immersive than a compromise 7.1 setup.
You will have to upgrade the AVR but 5.1.2 capable AVRs aren't that expensive - I picked up a 2nd hand one for $200.
Can you post up a floor plan or more photos showing the whole area ?


And I will go against other suggestions and say that you want all your speakers at the same height and at ear level or very close to. The only time I would vary this is to clear any obstructions between ears and speakers - such as the back of the couch, other peoples heads etc. or to stop hotpsotting if you are too close to a surround. It is not always practical to do this but you should get it as close as possible. Again this helps if you decide to go Atmos later.
niterida is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off