New setup power limitations & clipping - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 5 Old 01-11-2020, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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New setup power limitations & clipping

Hi all. I have an issue with my new setup. I've done a LOT of reading and unfortunately given that I'm quite new and only know the basics I'm more confused than I was before.
So to get it all started here is my new HT with all the specs I think you might need to help me out.

Denon AVR-X3600H
Specs:
Front: 105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
Center: 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
Surround: 105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
Surround back / Height1 / Height2: 105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
Digital D/A output: Rated output — 2 V (at 0 dB playback) Total harmonic distortion — 0.008 % (1 kHz, at 0 dB) S/N ratio — 102 dB Dynamic range — 100 dB Digital input: Format — Digital audio interface 0 Phono equalizer Input sensitivity: 2.5 mV RIAA deviation: ±1 dB (20 Hz to 20 kHz) S/N: 74 dB (IHF-A) Distortion factor: 0.03 % (1 kHz, 3 V)

Power consumption: 660 W

Speakers:

Front: Klipsch R-625FA
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 38Hz - 21kHz +/- 3dB SENSITIVITY 96 dB @ 2.83V/1M POWER HANDLING (CONT/PEAK) 100W/400W NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 ohms Compatible CROSSOVER FREQUENCY 2,000 Hz

Center: Klipsch R-34C
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 82Hz - 21kHz +/- 3dB SENSITIVITY 96 dB @ 2.83V/1M POWER HANDLING (CONT/PEAK) 100W/400W NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 ohms Compatible CROSSOVER FREQUENCY 1,600 Hz
Surround: Klipsch R-51M
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 62Hz - 21kHz +/- 3dB SENSITIVITY 93 dB @ 2.83V/1M POWER HANDLING (CONT/PEAK) 85W/340W NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 ohms Compatible CROSSOVER FREQUENCY 1,660 Hz

Rear height: Klipsch R-41SA (fronts are presumably the same but built into main towers)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE Conforms to Dolby Atmos Specifications SENSITIVITY Conforms to Dolby Atmos Specifications POWER HANDLING (CONT/PEAK) 50W/100W NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 ohms Compatible CROSSOVER FREQUENCY 4,237 Hz

Sub: Klipsch R-120SW
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 29Hz - 120Hz +/- 3dB MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT 116 dB AMPLIFIER All Digital AMPLIFIER POWER (CONT/PEAK) 200W/400W

MLP @ 2.5meters. I’ve run the Audyssey setup and the only thing I’ve changed is +4db for Atmos speakers like a lot of people recommend.
Crossovers set at:
Fronts: 40hz
Surround: 60hz
Center: 80hz
Atmos speakers front & back: 80hz

Sub set to LFE+Main with crossover at 120hz.
All the sound enhancements in AVR turned off (Loudness Management, Dynamic Compression etc etc). Only thing that is left on is MultiEQ XT32 set to Reference to maintain my room characteristics.

The other day I decided to test it all out. And given that at the time I knew even less than I do now I went all the way to max which is +18db. And to make it even worse, I put the stereo music track into Dolby Surround which started playing through all speakers. It played fine absolutely perfect at 0db. Above about +3db there was not much increase in volume as such (I didn’t notice that at the time, only retrospectively after reading about it). The main issue was with the center speaker where most of music was focused for some reason and high frequency overwhelmed everything else really bad. I might have spent like 5mins at that volume before I turned it down. Then I noticed the smell in the room, coming from front facing ports on the central speaker. It was not like burning but more like a chemical wood glue or some other adhesives. I didn’t think much of it initially, just though that new speakers + more cone movement due to higher volume = more production smell coming out. But then I started researching, read about clipping and here we are. Luckily even though I know I wasn't doing that speaker a favour it has not been damaged cause I cannot hear any distortion from it all all. Well, even at the time I couldn't. It was just that balancing issue.

I looked into all the aspects and like I said at the start, I’m still confused. So to make it slightly easier for you guys and myself I'm gonna fire up all of my questions and number them as well (I'm a bit daft when it comes to reading in between the lines of a subject I don't know much about).

1.Am I running out of power when driving all the speakers above 0db or speakers are not good enough?
2.If power is the issue is there anything I can do? Like increase crossover on mains etc
3.If I was to play same track (or any other track for that matter) at max in STEREO based on spec numbers alone, am I capable to do so safely for the equipment?
4.If I was to watch a movie in Atmos set at 0db do I have enough power to do so when it comes to overhead?
5. I mentioned above that I don't think that the centre speaker got damaged but based on what I said what do you think? No distortion and still plays fine = I got away with it?

Obviously I would not watch a movie at that kind of volume, I just want to find out what this setup is safely capable of driving so I dont destroy it due to my lack of knowledge. Same goes to music in stereo, just a few minutes brag at max etc etc.
I know is quite a task asking you to go through all of this for me, it's just that I want to know what is my bottleneck and how to avoid driving my setup to the ground prematurely. Especially that for me spending £3500 was already quite hard to justify in the first place.
Thanks for any help I can get.
P.S I'm sure I'll have some more questions coming towards you down the line
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post #2 of 5 Old 01-12-2020, 06:07 AM
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Does the sound change when you put a hand in front of the center speaker tweeter horn? (It should)

Never ever start off at loud volume. Not good for speakers and your ears will make you pay a high price with interest at a later date. New speakers can be bought, ears and the damage you do to the inside bits of them cant and if you are lucky all you get is less hearing but tinnitus and so on will very commonly be a bad side effect. Take care of your ears so you can enjoy movies and music for many many years.

I didnt look up the model you use so not sure if those are real sensitivity ratings or not. But either way home audio equipment arent made to play at PA levels.

Why LFE+Main, that defeats the front LR crossover setting and sends bass to sub and main speakers which is rarely a good idea. Let the sub do its job.


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post #3 of 5 Old 01-12-2020, 06:20 AM
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Your crossovers seem a bit low also, probably good to try 80 all around and 100 or 120 for atmos speakers. LFE+Main off and all speakers set to small.

LPF over LFE leave at 120hz, thats standard.
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post #4 of 5 Old 01-12-2020, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah the sound does change when I put my hand in front of it.

I've set LFE+Main, cause when I first connected everything the setup was lacking in bass in my opinion. But that was before I set the crossovers on mains. I I defo gonna give it another try and see if I like it more now.

And speaking of XO, I've set them roughly to what the speakers specs are saying on the front and center but since doing some more reading yesterday I've upped Atmos speakers to 120hz and surround to 80hz.

Still, my main concern is to find where my bottleneck regarding previously mentioned clipping comes from
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post #5 of 5 Old 01-12-2020, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luk4shO View Post
Yeah the sound does change when I put my hand in front of it.



I've set LFE+Main, cause when I first connected everything the setup was lacking in bass in my opinion. But that was before I set the crossovers on mains. I I defo gonna give it another try and see if I like it more now.



And speaking of XO, I've set them roughly to what the speakers specs are saying on the front and center but since doing some more reading yesterday I've upped Atmos speakers to 120hz and surround to 80hz.



Still, my main concern is to find where my bottleneck regarding previously mentioned clipping comes from


Nothing is made to run at max volume so receiver at max wont be “clean” and speakers cant take that volume either. Your system isnt made for PA or insanely loud party.
A way to check is to start at a medium volume (like -30) then slowly increase until it starts to sound harsh or stressed then lower a little until it sounds fine again.
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