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post #1 of 4 Old 05-18-2020, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Atmos Setup in Open Concept Room

Hey everyone, I'm sure this has been answered before, so feel free to point me to any threads that answer this (since my searching abilities were not working). Attached is a pic of the room I'd like to build an Atmos system in, and it's currently under construction (full remodel).

The room with the tv & couch is about 30' long x 15' wide, TV is on a 15' wall with the couch about 15' away. On either of the 30' length's is another room, and the openings to those rooms are completely open, about 12' long on one side (living room), 18' long on the other (kitchen) side. The picture isn't drawn perfectly to scale, but hopefully you get the idea.

The opening for both the living room and kitchen is about 7' high.

The ceiling in the family room is vaulted, the dotted line in the picture represents the high point of the ceiling. It's about 8' on either side, vaulting up to about 12' in the middle.

Finally, I'd love to run the wires in the walls and ceiling (or under the floor) and not have any wires exposed OR any free-standing speakers. So, all speakers are either in-wall, in-ceiling, or mounted on the wall/ceiling with a mounting bracket.


The L-C-R speakers are not a problem. Might be free-standing but with 2 young boys, probably going to be in-wall or wall-mounted.

The first problem I see is that there isn't a spot to have the surrounds at ear level. They will need to be at about 7', aimed down at the couch. I'm pretty sure the surrounds are supposed to be at ear level (about) and then there are additional height or ceiling speakers. Is there any way to get the ceiling speakers in an Atmos setup to be audibly distinct from the surrounds if the surrounds are sitting at 7'?

Okay, so you get the idea. Budget is not unlimited, but planning to send maybe $5K on speakers and receiver. How should I design the Atmos speaker layout? I'm thinking a 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 system would be amazing. Also, any advice on speakers would be much appreciated, the smaller and more inconspicuous the better, especially for those going on the ceiling. Are the front left/right speakers better off with up-shooting speakers as well? Is that a thing?

Thanks for all the help in advance.
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post #2 of 4 Old 05-19-2020, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have ideas?
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post #3 of 4 Old 05-20-2020, 12:18 AM
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I think you have it right with the surrounds. Use the walls above the entrances to aim the surrounds down a bit at the couch. Not too much you can do with that unless:
Since it's a full remodel, close the entrance of the living room some inches/feet from the bottom of the picture, and close the entrance of the kitchen some inches/feet from the top or the picture, giving you full wall height (or even half height?) to work with, and that may give you enough room to mount surrounds at 90 degrees. The couch may need to creep forward towards the TV a little bit to hit the sweet spot. If the partial closing is objectionable, the 7' entrance walls are still available to angle down from. You could consider mounting them from the far side of the entrance wall to flatten the angle a little more to be "side"-like than from the near side of the wall. You just have to aim a little more carefully.

Fortunately the vaulted ceiling seems to be symmetrical with the centerline of the MLP and display. in-ceiling speakers should be easier with that. Unfortunately, I'm not sure you can get inconspicuous Atmos placement if they're close to pointing down. If you have a partial tube (sonotube cut at an angle?) You could place an in-ceiling speaker in 4 of those.
I'm not sure that Atmos bounce speakers would be best here with the vaulted ceiling. I think that bounce for Atmos is compromised as is. Bouncing off an angled ceiling may take it too far.

That would make for a decent 5.1.4 layout if you can pull it off.

Rear surrounds look harder to get to try to get to ear level, but you could use the 7' entrance borders pull pretty far back from the couch and angle down. Room correction will get the timing and volume levels right, but the elevation angle will matter less the further you are back.
You could even use the rear wall from up high aimed down, but in theory they're supposed to be in a certain arc range, not straight back (unless the left side is above the door).

Regarding ceiling speakers being distinct, it's about the separation/aim/direction. You should be "good enough" even if the surrounds are 7' aimed at an angle down from the side compared to Atmos 8+' aimed straight down from overhead. Your ears/brain should sense "side" and "overhead" depending on speaker angles.

Another possibility for ear-level surrounds is furniture directly adjacent to/surrounding the couch and have speaker stands immediately adjacent to that or even integrated into it. Mount surround speakers relatively nearfield.
That has the drawback of potentially closing off the space to the left of the couch that was a pathway to the living room.
It has another benefit in that you can also try to integrate/hide subwoofers around this furniture. In the DIY Speaker/Sub forum, look for some VBSS build projects that incorporate the sub into end tables or other furniture.
As it is, you'll need massive subwoofer performance for that amount of open space. This could help


Quote:
Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
Attached is a pic of the room I'd like to build an Atmos system in, and it's currently under construction (full remodel).

The room with the tv & couch is about 30' long x 15' wide, TV is on a 15' wall with the couch about 15' away. On either of the 30' length's is another room, and the openings to those rooms are completely open, about 12' long on one side (living room), 18' long on the other (kitchen) side. The picture isn't drawn perfectly to scale, but hopefully you get the idea.
The opening for both the living room and kitchen is about 7' high.

The ceiling in the family room is vaulted, the dotted line in the picture represents the high point of the ceiling. It's about 8' on either side, vaulting up to about 12' in the middle.
Finally, I'd love to run the wires in the walls and ceiling (or under the floor) and not have any wires exposed OR any free-standing speakers. So, all speakers are either in-wall, in-ceiling, or mounted on the wall/ceiling with a mounting bracket.

The L-C-R speakers are not a problem. Might be free-standing but with 2 young boys, probably going to be in-wall or wall-mounted.

The first problem I see is that there isn't a spot to have the surrounds at ear level. They will need to be at about 7', aimed down at the couch. I'm pretty sure the surrounds are supposed to be at ear level (about) and then there are additional height or ceiling speakers. Is there any way to get the ceiling speakers in an Atmos setup to be audibly distinct from the surrounds if the surrounds are sitting at 7'?

Okay, so you get the idea. Budget is not unlimited, but planning to send maybe $5K on speakers and receiver. How should I design the Atmos speaker layout? I'm thinking a 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 system would be amazing. Also, any advice on speakers would be much appreciated, the smaller and more inconspicuous the better, especially for those going on the ceiling. Are the front left/right speakers better off with up-shooting speakers as well? Is that a thing?

Thanks for all the help in advance.
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post #4 of 4 Old 05-24-2020, 11:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philpoe View Post
I think you have it right with the surrounds. Use the walls above the entrances to aim the surrounds down a bit at the couch. Not too much you can do with that unless:
Since it's a full remodel, close the entrance of the living room some inches/feet from the bottom of the picture, and close the entrance of the kitchen some inches/feet from the top or the picture, giving you full wall height (or even half height?) to work with, and that may give you enough room to mount surrounds at 90 degrees. The couch may need to creep forward towards the TV a little bit to hit the sweet spot. If the partial closing is objectionable, the 7' entrance walls are still available to angle down from. You could consider mounting them from the far side of the entrance wall to flatten the angle a little more to be "side"-like than from the near side of the wall. You just have to aim a little more carefully.

Fortunately the vaulted ceiling seems to be symmetrical with the centerline of the MLP and display. in-ceiling speakers should be easier with that. Unfortunately, I'm not sure you can get inconspicuous Atmos placement if they're close to pointing down. If you have a partial tube (sonotube cut at an angle?) You could place an in-ceiling speaker in 4 of those.
I'm not sure that Atmos bounce speakers would be best here with the vaulted ceiling. I think that bounce for Atmos is compromised as is. Bouncing off an angled ceiling may take it too far.

That would make for a decent 5.1.4 layout if you can pull it off.

Rear surrounds look harder to get to try to get to ear level, but you could use the 7' entrance borders pull pretty far back from the couch and angle down. Room correction will get the timing and volume levels right, but the elevation angle will matter less the further you are back.
You could even use the rear wall from up high aimed down, but in theory they're supposed to be in a certain arc range, not straight back (unless the left side is above the door).

Regarding ceiling speakers being distinct, it's about the separation/aim/direction. You should be "good enough" even if the surrounds are 7' aimed at an angle down from the side compared to Atmos 8+' aimed straight down from overhead. Your ears/brain should sense "side" and "overhead" depending on speaker angles.

Another possibility for ear-level surrounds is furniture directly adjacent to/surrounding the couch and have speaker stands immediately adjacent to that or even integrated into it. Mount surround speakers relatively nearfield.
That has the drawback of potentially closing off the space to the left of the couch that was a pathway to the living room.
It has another benefit in that you can also try to integrate/hide subwoofers around this furniture. In the DIY Speaker/Sub forum, look for some VBSS build projects that incorporate the sub into end tables or other furniture.
As it is, you'll need massive subwoofer performance for that amount of open space. This could help

Thanks, this was very helpful.
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