Receiver/Speaker Setup - Large or Small? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 10 Old 05-22-2020, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Receiver/Speaker Setup - Large or Small?

Hello,

I am working on setting up my speakers in a new space and am having trouble configuring the small/large section. I am new to having surrounds and want to make sure I've got things setup as optimally as possible. I'll begin by listing what my setup is:

Denon AVR-X4300h
Fronts: Polk LSiM 707 (Mt. Vernon Cherry)
Center: Polk LSiM 706c (Mt. Vernon Cherry)
Rear Surround: Polk 80 F/X-LS In-Ceiling Speakers
Side Surround: Polk 80 F/X-LS In-Ceiling Speakers
Subwoofer: No Sub Currently

I ran the Audyssey Calibration and I noticed that it designated all of my speakers as Large. I was under the impression that any surround/satellite speakers should be set to Small. That being said, not sure if that is true if I don't currently have a sub. My L/R/C are all very large and capable, so it makes sense to me that they were designated as Large, especially with no sub, but not sure about my surrounds. The specs for my surrounds are:

1x 8" (20.32 cm) d (Round) Dynamic Balance aerated polypropylene cone and rubber surround - Mid/Woofer
2x 0.75" (1.91 cm) d (Round) Dynamic Balance ring radiator tweeter - Tweeter
Total Frequency Response: 30 Hz → 33,000 Hz
Lower and Upper -3dB Limits: 45 Hz → 29,000 Hz

Any help or advice is appreciated. Thank you.

LG OLED65C7P
Denon AVR-X4300h
Speakers (7.0): Polk LSiM 707 L/R, LSiM 706c C, 80F/X-LS Rear/Side Surround In-Ceiling Speakers, No Sub
Calibration Gear: 2018 i1Display Pro OEM (HDR Model), i1Pro
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post #2 of 10 Old 05-22-2020, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellitlikethis View Post
I ran the Audyssey Calibration and I noticed that it designated all of my speakers as Large. I was under the impression that any surround/satellite speakers should be set to Small.
The decision to call this feature "small vs. large" was a poor one.* They've "dumbed it down" to make it easier for novices I guess. The real question they are asking is "Do you want to re-direct the deep bass away from the speaker and instead send it to the subwoofer, a feature call 'bass management'?"

Yes=small and No=large.

In a system without any subwoofer connected the only correct mode for the fronts is "large", if the feature is even selectable at all, since there is no sub to redirect to.

*I've heard some very new units actually have now re-worded this. Bravo!

Last edited by m. zillch; 05-23-2020 at 01:28 PM.
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post #3 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 08:44 AM
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Even most big speakers will struggle a bit trying to play sound < 30Hz, and even if their frequency response looks broad, that's energy that may muddle the rest of the frequency range a bit.
Fortunately, it doesn't take much to see for yourself what you prefer.
Find a scene that exercises the speakers, and listen to it with all of them set to large, then again with them set to small, with various crossover points. Maybe even changing settings while playing.
Stick with the one that you like, and change it if you ever get a sub. You may find that for some things (drama, news vs action, sports, etc) you prefer one more than the other, and may change if it's worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spellitlikethis View Post
I ran the Audyssey Calibration and I noticed that it designated all of my speakers as Large. I was under the impression that any surround/satellite speakers should be set to Small. That being said, not sure if that is true if I don't currently have a sub. My L/R/C are all very large and capable, so it makes sense to me that they were designated as Large, especially with no sub, but not sure about my surrounds. The specs for my surrounds are:
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post #4 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellitlikethis View Post
Hello,

I am working on setting up my speakers in a new space and am having trouble configuring the small/large section. I am new to having surrounds and want to make sure I've got things setup as optimally as possible. I'll begin by listing what my setup is:

Denon AVR-X4300h
Fronts: Polk LSiM 707 (Mt. Vernon Cherry)
Center: Polk LSiM 706c (Mt. Vernon Cherry)
Rear Surround: Polk 80 F/X-LS In-Ceiling Speakers
Side Surround: Polk 80 F/X-LS In-Ceiling Speakers
Subwoofer: No Sub Currently

I ran the Audyssey Calibration and I noticed that it designated all of my speakers as Large. I was under the impression that any surround/satellite speakers should be set to Small. That being said, not sure if that is true if I don't currently have a sub. My L/R/C are all very large and capable, so it makes sense to me that they were designated as Large, especially with no sub, but not sure about my surrounds. The specs for my surrounds are:

1x 8" (20.32 cm) d (Round) Dynamic Balance aerated polypropylene cone and rubber surround - Mid/Woofer
2x 0.75" (1.91 cm) d (Round) Dynamic Balance ring radiator tweeter - Tweeter
Total Frequency Response: 30 Hz → 33,000 Hz
Lower and Upper -3dB Limits: 45 Hz → 29,000 Hz

Any help or advice is appreciated. Thank you.
This would be the set-it-and-forget-it numbers:

707s run as Large
Everything else run as small, then set the crossovers at 80-100Hz for the 706c, 100-120Hz for the surrounds.

I *think* that's the way to go about it if you don't have a subwoofer. I would recommend getting one, though - it will handle the low end better than the towers, and allow cleaner, clearer, and louder output for the mid-bass, mids and highs since the drivers won't be dealing with those low frequencies.

Home Theatre: Marantz SR6014 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | KEF Q650c Centre | KEF Q150 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PS4 Pro | Xbox One S | Nintendo Switch | TBA: KEF Q750 Front L/R

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | Neat Motive 3
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The decision to call this feature "small vs. large" was a poor one.* They've "dumbed it down" to make it easier for novices I guess. The real question they are asking is "Do you want to re-direct the deep bass away from the speaker and instead send it to the subwoofer, a feature call 'bass management'?"

Yes=small and No=large.

In a system without any subwoofer connected the only correct mode is "large", if the feature is even selectable at all, since there is no sub to redirect to.

*I've heard some very new units actually have now re-worded this. Bravo!

This makes sense, I wasn't sure exactly what it meant. One thing I still don't understand is how bass is handled when setting some speakers to small in an environment with no sub. For example, if I were to set my surrounds to Small, would their bass be redirected over to the Fronts and Center? Not sure that would be ideal either way.

LG OLED65C7P
Denon AVR-X4300h
Speakers (7.0): Polk LSiM 707 L/R, LSiM 706c C, 80F/X-LS Rear/Side Surround In-Ceiling Speakers, No Sub
Calibration Gear: 2018 i1Display Pro OEM (HDR Model), i1Pro
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post #6 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
This would be the set-it-and-forget-it numbers:

707s run as Large
Everything else run as small, then set the crossovers at 80-100Hz for the 706c, 100-120Hz for the surrounds.

I *think* that's the way to go about it if you don't have a subwoofer. I would recommend getting one, though - it will handle the low end better than the towers, and allow cleaner, clearer, and louder output for the mid-bass, mids and highs since the drivers won't be dealing with those low frequencies.

I definitely need to get a sub. I just moved into a home from an apartment so I'd never had the room for one, but I'm currently shopping around right now. I did the sub suggestion wizard on SVS and it recommended the SB16 Ultra or PB16 Ultra, but I don't have the funds or space for either. I'm considering either the SB-3000 or the SB-4000. Reviews are really great for the SB-3000 and my wife would be happier with the size, but I worry it might not have the power to hang with my current speakers. Still tempted to grab one and exercise SVS's free trial to find out. Any thoughts on subs?

LG OLED65C7P
Denon AVR-X4300h
Speakers (7.0): Polk LSiM 707 L/R, LSiM 706c C, 80F/X-LS Rear/Side Surround In-Ceiling Speakers, No Sub
Calibration Gear: 2018 i1Display Pro OEM (HDR Model), i1Pro
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post #7 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellitlikethis View Post
I definitely need to get a sub. I just moved into a home from an apartment so I'd never had the room for one, but I'm currently shopping around right now. I did the sub suggestion wizard on SVS and it recommended the SB16 Ultra or PB16 Ultra, but I don't have the funds or space for either. I'm considering either the SB-3000 or the SB-4000. Reviews are really great for the SB-3000 and my wife would be happier with the size, but I worry it might not have the power to hang with my current speakers. Still tempted to grab one and exercise SVS's free trial to find out. Any thoughts on subs?
I would take a look at subs from HSU (ULS-15 MK2), Rythmik (L12 or F12) or Power Sound Audio (S1512). Those three would get you more sub per dollar spent vs. SVS.

Home Theatre: Marantz SR6014 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | KEF Q650c Centre | KEF Q150 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PS4 Pro | Xbox One S | Nintendo Switch | TBA: KEF Q750 Front L/R

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | Neat Motive 3
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post #8 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellitlikethis View Post
This makes sense, I wasn't sure exactly what it meant. One thing I still don't understand is how bass is handled when setting some speakers to small in an environment with no sub. For example, if I were to set my surrounds to Small, would their bass be redirected over to the Fronts and Center? Not sure that would be ideal either way.
In the absence of a subwoofer, all speakers configured as small will redirect their bass frequencies to the L/R speakers.
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post #9 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellitlikethis View Post
This makes sense, I wasn't sure exactly what it meant. One thing I still don't understand is how bass is handled when setting some speakers to small in an environment with no sub. For example, if I were to set my surrounds to Small, would their bass be redirected over to the Fronts and Center? Not sure that would be ideal either way.
My understanding is that is if the sub is set to "none" then the option to set front L/R speakers to small either disappears is is grayed out and all other speakers set to small gets their deep bass redirected to the large fronts, regardless of what they are.

Last edited by m. zillch; 05-24-2020 at 09:12 AM.
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post #10 of 10 Old 05-24-2020, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
I would take a look at subs from HSU (ULS-15 MK2), Rythmik (L12 or F12) or Power Sound Audio (S1512). Those three would get you more sub per dollar spent vs. SVS.

Going down the rabbit hole researching subs! I was pretty decided on an SVS, but now I'm leaning on the HSU or PSA options you recommended. The ULS-15 MK2 seems too good to be true for the price, even with shipping included. I still worry that it won't be sufficient to help, but I know it can't hurt. My room is 2890 ft^3, but it's not a dedicated theater room. This is for our living area, so there's furniture all over the place, my point being that it's not a big empty space. My primary focus is movies and tv. We do listen to music, but it's less than 20% of the time. For right now, I can only get one sub, but I might be able to convince my wife to let me get a second later... It's more of a space issue than it is a money issue.


Any further thoughts on the ULS-15 MK2 and the PSA S1512? The Rythmik site was confusing with all the customization options.. Thank you for all your help so far! I'll continue researching.

LG OLED65C7P
Denon AVR-X4300h
Speakers (7.0): Polk LSiM 707 L/R, LSiM 706c C, 80F/X-LS Rear/Side Surround In-Ceiling Speakers, No Sub
Calibration Gear: 2018 i1Display Pro OEM (HDR Model), i1Pro
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