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post #1 of 10 Old 05-22-2020, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Help with 7.1.4 setup

I wanted to upgrade my system from a 5.1 to a 7.1.4 Atmos setup. After doing a lot of reading I think I have a good idea of how to set things up but am open to suggestion and wanted to get some feedback. Attached is a diagram of my room. L and R front towers(Infinity Beta 50) in corners angled towards MLP. Sub between L front tower and tv stand. Side surrounds(Infinity Beta ES250) 90 deg to sofa about 6" above ear level. I was going to run them in bi-pole mode since they are only about 2-3' away from end seat listeners ears on the sofa.

Rear surrounds are my problem. There is an open space and a glass door on each of the back 6' of side walls. The rear wall only has about 6' of continuous wall space and has 2 doors near each side so I don't think I can get enough separation between 2 rear surrounds. This makes it very difficult to put 2 rear surrounds in the suggested 135-150 deg positions, especially around ear level(light switches). My solution is to use a 3rd Infinity Beta ES250 as 2 speakers by removing the bridge connector and wiring each side individually as L & R surround rears. This could fit nicely in the middle of the wall again about 6" above ear level. I know not ideal but 2 traditional speakers separated on the back wall would stick out and be very easy to bang into. Thoughts?

I have to get 4 Atmos speakers that I will use as heights speakers and put at the top of the wall/ceiling junction angled down and in at the MLP. Not looking to spend too much on these since Atmos speakers don't get that much sound info. Leaning towards the Sony SS-CSE speakers as they get good reviews, can be mounted on the wall/ceiling firing down or used as up-firing modules, and are on sale for $100 a pair.
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post #2 of 10 Old 05-22-2020, 07:38 PM
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The 3rd ES250 would be OK to get some effect. As you say the channels don't get much data, so something's better than nothing, even if dislocated.
How tall is the door on the rear wall? If you put rear surrounds just above door height in the 2' gap and on the mirror position aimed slightly down, the angle may still be flat enough to work as Rear Surround.
How high is the ceiling? Are there lights in the ceiling?
The Atmos speakers on ceiling angled more sharply down could differentiate them enough from the rear surrounds. High on wall might be a little more of a compromise.

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Originally Posted by rlb4 View Post
Rear surrounds are my problem. There is an open space and a glass door on each of the back 6' of side walls. The rear wall only has about 6' of continuous wall space and has 2 doors near each side so I don't think I can get enough separation between 2 rear surrounds. This makes it very difficult to put 2 rear surrounds in the suggested 135-150 deg positions, especially around ear level(light switches). My solution is to use a 3rd Infinity Beta ES250 as 2 speakers by removing the bridge connector and wiring each side individually as L & R surround rears. This could fit nicely in the middle of the wall again about 6" above ear level. I know not ideal but 2 traditional speakers separated on the back wall would stick out and be very easy to bang into. Thoughts?

I have to get 4 Atmos speakers that I will use as heights speakers and put at the top of the wall/ceiling junction angled down and in at the MLP. Not looking to spend too much on these since Atmos speakers don't get that much sound info. Leaning towards the Sony SS-CSE speakers as they get good reviews, can be mounted on the wall/ceiling firing down or used as up-firing modules, and are on sale for $100 a pair.
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post #3 of 10 Old 05-22-2020, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by philpoe View Post
The 3rd ES250 would be OK to get some effect. As you say the channels don't get much data, so something's better than nothing, even if dislocated.
How tall is the door on the rear wall? If you put rear surrounds just above door height in the 2' gap and on the mirror position aimed slightly down, the angle may still be flat enough to work as Rear Surround.
How high is the ceiling? Are there lights in the ceiling?
The Atmos speakers on ceiling angled more sharply down could differentiate them enough from the rear surrounds. High on wall might be a little more of a compromise.

See attached picture for back of the room. The ceiling is 7 1/2' high. The 2 doors on the rear wall are 7' high. I can't really put 2 rear surrounds in the 135-150 deg positions at ear level because that is where the 2 light switches are. Even a little higher would be in the way and easy to bump into. Going higher would put them in the same position as the 2 rear height Atmos speakers that I was going to mount at the wall/ceiling junction, just to the left of each door on the rear wall. My thought was that the middle of the back wall around 6" above ear level was out of the way and using my 3rd Beta ES250 wired as 2 separate speakers would be the best option. I hope I explained that ok.
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post #4 of 10 Old 05-22-2020, 10:11 PM
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I think I got it.
I've seen surrounds mounted above doors angled slightly down. There's probably not such a need for precision in height for the surrounds, but that's where you're looking for the Atmos, right?

Depending on how much effort you want to apply, the Atmos speakers could be mounted firing down instead of at the wall/ceiling joint.
Any appetite to cut into the ceiling? You could use the mounting points of the light fixture and detectors to help fish wire through.

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Originally Posted by rlb4 View Post
See attached picture for back of the room. The ceiling is 7 1/2' high. The 2 doors on the rear wall are 7' high. I can't really put 2 rear surrounds in the 135-150 deg positions at ear level because that is where the 2 light switches are. Even a little higher would be in the way and easy to bump into. Going higher would put them in the same position as the 2 rear height Atmos speakers that I was going to mount at the wall/ceiling junction, just to the left of each door on the rear wall. My thought was that the middle of the back wall around 6" above ear level was out of the way and using my 3rd Beta ES250 wired as 2 separate speakers would be the best option. I hope I explained that ok.
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 12:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philpoe View Post
I think I got it.
I've seen surrounds mounted above doors angled slightly down. There's probably not such a need for precision in height for the surrounds, but that's where you're looking for the Atmos, right?

Depending on how much effort you want to apply, the Atmos speakers could be mounted firing down instead of at the wall/ceiling joint.
Any appetite to cut into the ceiling? You could use the mounting points of the light fixture and detectors to help fish wire through.
Yes, I was planning on mounting the rear height/Atmos speakers at the top of the back wall(inline with the front mains and front height/Atmos speakers) where it meets the ceiling. From what I've read, you don't want the rear surrounds to be higher than 1/2 the ceiling height(or >1.25 x ear level) so as to maintain good separation between the base layer rear surrounds and the height/Atmos speakers.

I definitely do not want to cut into the ceiling. Do you feel that using the 1 Beta ES250 wired as 2 individual speakers will be that bad? Each side is angled about 45 deg out(see pic) so it should give a pretty good dispersion. If it will not sound good, are there any other options where to mount the rear surrounds? I could probably mount them(Beta ES250) to the left of each door just above or to the left of the light switches. I could buy another Beta ES250(Revel S12) for $200. But due to their design of the speakers angled 45 deg out, would that work? And would the one on the left be too close to the glass door? They can be run in bi-pole or monopole modes. I do have 2 Infinity Primus 150 bookshelf speakers but they are pretty big(11" deep) so they would stick out too far and because they are rectangular, be easy to bump into. The Beta ES250's are tapered and only 7" deep in the middle so less bulky and less likely to hit. I could also buy 2 new speakers for the rear surrounds. They would have to be 7" or less in depth. And that would get into the discussion of keeping the speakers matched. I was thinking about using the Sony SS-CSE speakers as my front and rear height/Atmos speakers. They are only 5.75" deep and angled as they can be used as up-firing modules as well as height speakers. I could mount them with the angle inwards towards the MLP so it would be like they were toed in. I'm not sure if they are good enough to match my Beta ES250 side surrounds though.

Sorry to throw so much at you. I really appreciate your help. I know every room/situation is different and no setup is perfect. I'm just trying to get the best possible setup without going too crazy.
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post #6 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 08:27 AM
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I get it about floor speakers mixing with Atmos. Also, I think anything from the Beta ES250 would add to effect.
I imagine that you don't want to go in-wall either.
About the only other thing I can think of is a low-profile in-wall speaker mounted in a low-profile back box (or make a box) mounted on the wall.
A speaker like the Polk IW65 in a shallow box could take up as little as 3.5+ inches depth


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Originally Posted by rlb4 View Post
Yes, I was planning on mounting the rear height/Atmos speakers at the top of the back wall(inline with the front mains and front height/Atmos speakers) where it meets the ceiling. From what I've read, you don't want the rear surrounds to be higher than 1/2 the ceiling height(or >1.25 x ear level) so as to maintain good separation between the base layer rear surrounds and the height/Atmos speakers.

I definitely do not want to cut into the ceiling. Do you feel that using the 1 Beta ES250 wired as 2 individual speakers will be that bad? Each side is angled about 45 deg out(see pic) so it should give a pretty good dispersion. If it will not sound good, are there any other options where to mount the rear surrounds? I could probably mount them(Beta ES250) to the left of each door just above or to the left of the light switches. I could buy another Beta ES250(Revel S12) for $200. But due to their design of the speakers angled 45 deg out, would that work? And would the one on the left be too close to the glass door? They can be run in bi-pole or monopole modes. I do have 2 Infinity Primus 150 bookshelf speakers but they are pretty big(11" deep) so they would stick out too far and because they are rectangular, be easy to bump into. The Beta ES250's are tapered and only 7" deep in the middle so less bulky and less likely to hit. I could also buy 2 new speakers for the rear surrounds. They would have to be 7" or less in depth. And that would get into the discussion of keeping the speakers matched. I was thinking about using the Sony SS-CSE speakers as my front and rear height/Atmos speakers. They are only 5.75" deep and angled as they can be used as up-firing modules as well as height speakers. I could mount them with the angle inwards towards the MLP so it would be like they were toed in. I'm not sure if they are good enough to match my Beta ES250 side surrounds though.

Sorry to throw so much at you. I really appreciate your help. I know every room/situation is different and no setup is perfect. I'm just trying to get the best possible setup without going too crazy.
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post #7 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philpoe View Post
I get it about floor speakers mixing with Atmos. Also, I think anything from the Beta ES250 would add to effect.
I imagine that you don't want to go in-wall either.
About the only other thing I can think of is a low-profile in-wall speaker mounted in a low-profile back box (or make a box) mounted on the wall.
A speaker like the Polk IW65 in a shallow box could take up as little as 3.5+ inches depth

Yes, I would like to avoid cutting any holes in walls. What did you mean when you said that "anything from the Beta ES250 would add to effect"? Do you think that the 1 Beta ES250(wired as 2 speakers) in the middle would not sound very good? Would getting a 2nd one sound better? Or should I just look for 2 direct firing monopole speakers that are less than 7" or so deep? What did you think about using 2 Sony SS-CSE's as the rear surrounds?
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post #8 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 01:49 PM
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I'm just saying that having anything to play back the channels is better than nothing, even if aimed the wrong way, as the ES250s would have to be (central position firing out away from MLP centerline, as opposed to outward positions firing towards MLP).
I'm sure that the SS-CSEs would do fine, and you have a chance of separation, and depending how mounted, to even aim the slope at MLP.
If you're considering a surround-style speaker, harmanaudio.com is having a really big sale on Infinity Reference speakers. The RS152 may be worth looking at for $135/pair. They would probably even be ideal, as the diffuse pattern of the playback would make precise angles less relevant.

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Yes, I would like to avoid cutting any holes in walls. What did you mean when you said that "anything from the Beta ES250 would add to effect"? Do you think that the 1 Beta ES250(wired as 2 speakers) in the middle would not sound very good? Would getting a 2nd one sound better? Or should I just look for 2 direct firing monopole speakers that are less than 7" or so deep? What did you think about using 2 Sony SS-CSE's as the rear surrounds?
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post #9 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm just saying that having anything to play back the channels is better than nothing, even if aimed the wrong way, as the ES250s would have to be (central position firing out away from MLP centerline, as opposed to outward positions firing towards MLP).
I'm sure that the SS-CSEs would do fine, and you have a chance of separation, and depending how mounted, to even aim the slope at MLP.
If you're considering a surround-style speaker, harmanaudio.com is having a really big sale on Infinity Reference speakers. The RS152 may be worth looking at for $135/pair. They would probably even be ideal, as the diffuse pattern of the playback would make precise angles less relevant.

So it doesn't sound like you think the 1 or even 2 Beta ES250's would be that great of a choice(in monopole or bipole mode). I'm a little confused about the RS152's. I know they cannot act as bipoles, but they are angled similarly to the Beta ES250's. Wouldn't they fire in the same directions as the Beta ES250's? Do you think 2 direct firing monopoles angles at the MLP would be better sounding than either of the Beta ES250 or RS152 options?
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post #10 of 10 Old 05-23-2020, 05:01 PM
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I'm trying to say that diffused speakers may be best for this situation since you can't get to install at the recommended locations, especially for relatively low-usage surround channels.
2 angled bipole speakers such as the Beta ES250s would probably be ideal compared to a single angled speaker firing the L/R channels outward from centerline (which is how I understood you would use a single Beta ES250).
From what I understand about the RS152, it also is made to play a very diffused sound, making location difficult.
I mentioned the sale in case the RS152 pair was cheaper than what you might pay for the Beta ES250 pair. If you have the Beta ES250 pair already, absolutely use them, and don't spend more money.

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Originally Posted by rlb4 View Post
So it doesn't sound like you think the 1 or even 2 Beta ES250's would be that great of a choice(in monopole or bipole mode). I'm a little confused about the RS152's. I know they cannot act as bipoles, but they are angled similarly to the Beta ES250's. Wouldn't they fire in the same directions as the Beta ES250's? Do you think 2 direct firing monopoles angles at the MLP would be better sounding than either of the Beta ES250 or RS152 options?
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