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post #1 of 8 Old 05-23-2020, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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5.1.2 in odd room

I'm new to the home audio scene. My buddy has a nice atmos setup and I'm looking to complete a home theater setup in our new home. There will be a 3seat recliner behind the 2seater already in place. The room is 11'w x 16'L. I am looking to install the system myself and am having trouble with exactly which speakers and receiver to purchase and their placement. Being that the rear ceiling is vaulted. I plan on running a marantz SR514 receiver, Klipsch R-5650-W for the front L/R and rear L/R, Klipsch R-5502-W center, Klipsch CDT-3650-C ceiling and Klipsch R-100SW 10" sub.
The speaker placement is the most troubling due to the shape of the room. specifically the rears and the ceiling.
If anyone has any advice on this setup and speaker placement, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Lee
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post #2 of 8 Old 05-23-2020, 08:37 PM
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Do you already have the receiver, or are you tentatively planning to use the Marantz SR5014?
Do you already have the in-ceiling speakers, or are you tentatively planning to use the CDT-3650-C?

I ask, since if budget allows, you could probably get to 5.1.4 (so 9 channels instead of 7) in that space if you use different speakers that allow you to aim down without cutting into the ceiling.
A small speaker or on-wall speaker on a mount could serve as rear Atmos speakers, even if you use the in-ceiling speakers in the front, then room correction could make up for volume and timing differences.
If sticking with 5.1.2, the height speakers may be partially blocked for the rear recliners.
Additionally, the shape of the walls and ceiling may present challenging reflections for room correction. Going to 9 channels or above typically gets you improved room correction. For Marantz/Denon that would be Audyssy MultiEQ XT32.

Will you be using a projector or a TV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeok86 View Post
I'm new to the home audio scene. My buddy has a nice atmos setup and I'm looking to complete a home theater setup in our new home. There will be a 3seat recliner behind the 2seater already in place. The room is 11'w x 16'L. I am looking to install the system myself and am having trouble with exactly which speakers and receiver to purchase and their placement. Being that the rear ceiling is vaulted. I plan on running a marantz SR514 receiver, Klipsch R-5650-W for the front L/R and rear L/R, Klipsch R-5502-W center, Klipsch CDT-3650-C ceiling and Klipsch R-100SW 10" sub.
The speaker placement is the most troubling due to the shape of the room. specifically the rears and the ceiling.
If anyone has any advice on this setup and speaker placement, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Lee
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post #3 of 8 Old 05-24-2020, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Philipoe, thank you for the reply. Everything is in the planning stage. I do not have any equipment yet. We will be using a TV. So, there is no worries about accommodating a projector. It seems like 5.1.4 is the way to go with the front two being somewhere by the AC vent and the back two somewhere by the can light. If going with in-wall rear L/R, where would you recommend mounting them?

Also, what do you think about the Marantz/ Klipsch combo? I would prefer to only do this one time but I'm not looking to completely break the bank either.
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post #4 of 8 Old 05-24-2020, 11:53 PM
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If you're in the planning stage, there are a number of Memorial day sales and model year closeouts that could save you some money.

If going 5.1.4, you'll need 9 channels, so the Marantz has to be upgraded. The "easy" choice is from the Denon/Marantz family with Audyssey XT32.
For 2019 models, that's Denon AVR-X3600H or Marantz SR6014. For 2018 models, that's Denon AVR-X4500H and up, Marantz SR6013 and up.
There are older models if you don't mind used models or missing some other "new" features.
If you can live without the Audyssey XT32, the Onkyo TX-NR797 looks like a reasonable choice, but AccuEQ isn't the best room correction out there.
I think that the closest related Pioneer is the VSX-LX304, but check to make sure. The LX304 uses Advanced MCACC.
I think you should avoid the VSX-LX303. Despite a similar model number to the LX304, it's a different design that cuts corners (too many, imho) to get a low price.

For speakers, considering that the center channel does most of the work, followed by L/R, I'd focus budget there. Surrounds (and Atmos) just need to keep up, not be the stars, IMHO.
The room shape makes the rear speakers a little bit of a challenge for the surrounds. Will there be space behind the rear recliners, or will they be against the wall?
The vertical wall seems to allow for ear-level speakers for both rows. I'm imagining some type of 2-row surround setup with directional speakers. I have to think on that a little bit.
Depending on where the rear recliners are, you may consider a dipole, or bipole, and mounting them so that both rows get the effect.
http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/spea...e-speakers/290
You could also consider trying out the Infinity Reference RS152, which is described as an unusual speaker in that it plays in an almost semi-circle, sort of like a bipole.
I mention it since that model's on a really big sale right now at harmanaudio.com, with free return shipping. Why not try it?
For the low sale price, you might consider the R162 as your front speakers, but you may be thinking about towers.
The RC263 center sold out. A shame since it was also at a great price and would probably have suited you very well.
A lot of people like the Klipsch centers since the horn helps make dialog clear, but the Infinity was a really low price for a great speaker.
The Infinity Reference also uses CMMD woofers, like the higher end Klipsch models, but doesn't use horns.
https://www.harmanaudio.com/loudspea...refv1=Infinity

If looking at Klipsch, what family of speakers were you considering, and which specific center?

For TVs, I don't know if this is a memorial day sale or not, but do a google shopping search for Sony X950G 85". If I didn't buy a Vizio P Series X 75" over the new year, I'd be ready to get that.
That's about as good as it gets, especially for that size and price that I can think of.

On to subwoofers, the front right corner looks like an ideal place for a sub. A sub might also do well at the back of the recess, but that's if the recliners leave room. Otherwise you might consider some type of build custom to that space or a riser for the rear recliners.
If you have a receiver that can calibrate 2 subs independently, you may want to do that. You could also get a DSP to manage the subs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeok86 View Post
Philipoe, thank you for the reply. Everything is in the planning stage. I do not have any equipment yet. We will be using a TV. So, there is no worries about accommodating a projector. It seems like 5.1.4 is the way to go with the front two being somewhere by the AC vent and the back two somewhere by the can light. If going with in-wall rear L/R, where would you recommend mounting them?

Also, what do you think about the Marantz/ Klipsch combo? I would prefer to only do this one time but I'm not looking to completely break the bank either.

Last edited by philpoe; 05-25-2020 at 12:00 AM.
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post #5 of 8 Old 05-25-2020, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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philpoe, Thanks for the info. You have alieviated a lot of anxiety about planning the setup.

The rear recliner will be right up against the back wall. The rear speakers will likely have to be 90 degrees to the rear recliner.

I was planning on placing the sub in the Front Right side of the room. However, i did work on building the riser for the rear recliner today. It would accommodate 8" subs. I am leaning toward the free standing, powered sub, up front for simplicity.

Do you know much about polk audio. I have been reading that they the RCi series is somewhat comparable to the klipsh reference line and about 1/2 the $ new. Do you know if this is true or is the klipsh/infinity/other worth the extra $? The only system I have heard in person is my friends who has martin logan speakers. His sounds awesome but they are more $ than I am willing to spend on this project.
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post #6 of 8 Old 05-26-2020, 12:04 AM
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I'm glad my thoughts could help. I'm just sharing what I'm learning

Considering that the rear recliners are right up against the wall, firing a surround right at the listener may not be ideal.
Referencing the link before, a dipole may make sense to create a null for those listeners. Even if it's firing towards the rear wall, it should bounce, delivering a diffused surround experience for the rear recliners.
The forward firing portion should work for the front listeners, and even with reflections from the back, surround channels are more for immersion than precise clarity. It's probably worth a test.

If you look through the subwoofer forums and DIY forums, you should find quite a number of options to incorporate a subwoofer into a riser.

My opinion of Polk is that while I generally have no complaints, you can find better bang for your buck. Like some brands, they do a great job filling the needs of retailers with options and convenience.
At the right price, I'm sure there's something good to be found, but Polk seems to do a great job controlling their prices, so less deals to be found. Kudos to them for being able to do that, but it makes me look elsewhere for a deal.
Polk center channel speakers have not been received favorably over the years.

Another opinion is that Klipsch lives and dies by their horns (and those copper colored woofers! ). Most people love them or hate them, and that seems to be based on the model family with the more expensive models getting better reviews. I haven't heard any in place yet, so I can't comment.
Klipsch center channel speakers have been received fairly well, as the horn seems to enhance dialog clarity. Collective wisdom seems to indicate that a horn, 3-way design, or ribbon tweeter can help in dialog clarity. Of course there are exceptions.

My personal experience has brought me to the conclusion that as long as I get proper bass and the dialog is clear, the rest of the speakers just have to be "not terrible". Minor faults get covered up by the sub and center.
Before settling on my current 5.1 setup, over the winter holidays I went through several brands/models of front speakers and centers for my then 3.1 system when I was contemplating upgrades.
If you were to remove/downgrade speakers from this setup, in order I'd notice the subwoofer, the center, the surrounds (I was surprised by this), and bringing up the rear, front L/R.
I luckily took a leap of faith on a used, discontinued Hsu model for a subwoofer. Wow! what a difference these under-20Hz subs make! You'll want to consider a different sub than the R-100SW originally planned.

While testing the various speakers, I pulled the surrounds I had out of storage and put them on boxes. It made a bigger difference than I expected.
Even if not watching an explosion-fest, the sub and surrounds can be used to create low-level dramatic "hum". It's pretty effective to raise tension in dramatic scenes.
I don't turn my sub up loud. The gain's not even at 9 o'clock, but can rattle stuff even there. Non-distinct sounds from the surrounds help the immersive feel.
While I could probably rank the front L/Rs from "worst" to "best", I had no major complaints about any of them as the sub cleans up anything they do with the proper crossover.
I spent a little more than I had to keep towers over bookshelves, but the price difference was too good to pass up.

If/when I put Atmos speakers in, I'll learn from the fronts and surrounds that they just have to be "not terrible". I'll go for the most cost-effective, "competent" speaker available. Fortunately, in-ceiling (and in-wall) speakers seem to always have deals available (even Polk!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeok86 View Post
philpoe, Thanks for the info. You have alieviated a lot of anxiety about planning the setup.
The rear recliner will be right up against the back wall. The rear speakers will likely have to be 90 degrees to the rear recliner.

I was planning on placing the sub in the Front Right side of the room. However, i did work on building the riser for the rear recliner today. It would accommodate 8" subs. I am leaning toward the free standing, powered sub, up front for simplicity.

Do you know much about polk audio. I have been reading that they the RCi series is somewhat comparable to the klipsh reference line and about 1/2 the $ new. Do you know if this is true or is the klipsh/infinity/other worth the extra $? The only system I have heard in person is my friends who has martin logan speakers. His sounds awesome but they are more $ than I am willing to spend on this project.
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post #7 of 8 Old 05-28-2020, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Philpoe thanks for the advice, ill post pics and keep progress updates going
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post #8 of 8 Old 05-29-2020, 06:46 AM
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Looking at the pictures again makes me think the following:
I'm assuming that for the front recliners, the seat nearest the door is the centerline, and that the rear recliners will line up behind them, with the leftmost viewers not having a recliner in front of them.
One thing you may consider is to move the front recliner closer to the door, and make the common arm between the seats the centerline. This would move the heads of the front viewers from in front of the rear viewers line of sight to the screen.
If the riser solves that issue, never mind. Of course entry/exit to the rear would be affected. If this is worthwhile to consider, you could but the front recliners on sliding feet, casters or even some sort of track to get positioning and alignment consistent while improving entry/exit.

I still think dipoles may be something to consider for the surrounds, mounted on the side walls.

For the vaulted rears, something came to mind: You may be able to take advantage of the sloped walls by using a bounce technique instead of downward firing speakers for rear Atmos.
In theory you're supposed to have the sound come from behind the listener aimed slightly forward, but you can't because the recliners are against the wall.
If you mount a pair of angled elevation speakers (the ones normally mounted on top of front speakers) on the ceiling, aimed at the rear walls (that is, mount the short side to the ceiling, aimed at the rear wall), the angle should bounce the sound downwards to the rear listeners, and possibly slightly forward to the front listeners.
For the front ceiling speakers, if it's a challenge to get in-ceiling speakers aimed correctly for both rows, you may consider using angled elevation speakers again in the front, but firing downward (that is, mount the long side to the ceiling, aimed towards the listeners).
With the speakers firing in direct fashion as opposed to reflecting like the rears, they should be close to Dolby suggestions, and close enough that room correction could make it a wash.
This may prove challenging to aim quite precisely, but has the notable advantage of not cutting holes into the ceiling (just screw holes for mounting equipment).
Elevation/bounce speakers in theory have a more narrow cone of dispersion, which may be a disadvantage. so you may have to consider other types of speakers.
An alternative could be to use MDF or even drywall boxe to mount in-wall or in-ceiling speakers in the same fashion (that is, angled like the elevation speakers). If building a riser, these boxes should be a relatively small additional effort. You could also get the angles more to your liking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeok86 View Post
I am looking to install the system myself and am having trouble with exactly which speakers and receiver to purchase and their placement. Being that the rear ceiling is vaulted.
I plan on running a marantz SR514 receiver, Klipsch R-5650-W for the front L/R and rear L/R, Klipsch R-5502-W center, Klipsch CDT-3650-C ceiling and Klipsch R-100SW 10" sub.
The speaker placement is the most troubling due to the shape of the room. specifically the rears and the ceiling.
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