Are Class-D Amps Ready For Prime Time? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Are Class-D Amps Ready For Prime Time?
Yes 286 73.33%
No 34 8.72%
Don't know 70 17.95%
Voters: 390. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
 72Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 210 Old 09-02-2014, 07:27 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,687
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3386 Post(s)
Liked: 2256
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanoo View Post
I'm using Hypex NCore for Mains. I've also tried a ClassDAudio SDS-470C which was excellent for HT but I preferred the NCore for music. You're welcome to try the SDS-470C as I haven't listed it for sale as yet. I'm in Bicton.

I am also running Class H amps for my surrounds -Audiocontrol Pantages G3. Fantastic sound for both music and HT.
Thanks! I've ordered a crown xls1500 Drivecore to compare at home how it sounds like for home theatre use. My gear is in a separate room in a server rack so it will be interesting to listen to it and how it will preform.
Franin is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 210 Old 09-02-2014, 07:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
Peter Nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posts: 770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Thanks! I've ordered a crown xls1500 Drivecore to compare at home how it sounds like for home theatre use. My gear is in a separate room in a server rack so it will be interesting to listen to it and how it will preform.
Will probably work great! The new JBL Synthesis amps (SDA-4600 and SDA-8300) are rebadged Crown Drivecore amps (DCi 4|600 N and DCi 8|300 N)

https://www.facebook.com/JBLsynthesi...type=1&theater
Peter Nielsen is offline  
post #63 of 210 Old 09-02-2014, 09:30 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,687
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3386 Post(s)
Liked: 2256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post
Will probably work great! The new JBL Synthesis amps (SDA-4600 and SDA-8300) are rebadged Crown Drivecore amps (DCi 4|600 N and DCi 8|300 N)

https://www.facebook.com/JBLsynthesi...type=1&theater
Thanks I'm looking forward in hearing it in action.
Franin is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 210 Old 09-02-2014, 11:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Big C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Now I am torn between two Pioneer A/V receivers--the Elite VSX-80 with Class A/B amps, and the Elite SC-81, with Class D3 amps. After scanning over this thread, it appears as though there are pros and cons to Class A/B and Class D3. The way I understand it, Class A/B amps are better at producing treble tones, yet use more electricity and radiate more heat. While Class d3 amps are better at bass frequencies, use less electricity, and generate less heat, yet they have more difficulty with treble frequencies. I assume that Class D3 amps don't use that electromechanical relay switch when powering up and powering down. Am I right that Class D3 amps don't use that electromechanical relay switch as found with Class A/B amps? Do Class D3 amps power up and power down quicker than Class A/B amps? My top priority is a smooth response from 20-20000Hz, and if possible, below and above that range, without having to apply EQ (cutting or boosting). I'd hate to think that companies are making us pay extra to give up tone quality for effitiency. I hope this isn't similar to the quality of plasma panels being replaced with the effitiency of LCD panels!

Last edited by Big C; 09-02-2014 at 09:45 PM.
Big C is offline  
post #65 of 210 Old 09-03-2014, 05:28 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 14,631
Mentioned: 402 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5674 Post(s)
Liked: 5535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
What other D class amp people running in their theatre? I remember reading awhile back some where using crown XLS gear ( Pro audio gear ) if I'm correct there all D class Amps? Would like to hear from them as I'm looking at going in that direction as well.
I will put my vote in for the D-sonic amplifiers. They are absolutely fantastic, and the best amp I have owned yet. Previously, I have used Emotiva, Sherbourn, Sunfire, Crown drivecore, behringer epx4000, and traditional AVR power. The crown and epx did great, but just 2 channels and I wanted a full 7 channel unit that would run everything, stay pretty cool, and give me plenty of headroom. The D sonic has done that in spades, runs pretty cool too The nice thing about the D-sonics is they are all basically boxed monoblocks, and he just crams them into a single chassis. The second place contender I would say was the sunfire 7401 as it was a ridiculously impressive amp for the size. 800 watts per channel 4 ohm in the fronts is good enough for almost any main speaker.
oneeyeblind likes this.

European Models do not accept banana plugs
Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
beastaudio is offline  
post #66 of 210 Old 09-03-2014, 06:26 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,687
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3386 Post(s)
Liked: 2256
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I will put my vote in for the D-sonic amplifiers. They are absolutely fantastic, and the best amp I have owned yet. Previously, I have used Emotiva, Sherbourn, Sunfire, Crown drivecore, behringer epx4000, and traditional AVR power. The crown and epx did great, but just 2 channels and I wanted a full 7 channel unit that would run everything, stay pretty cool, and give me plenty of headroom. The D sonic has done that in spades, runs pretty cool too The nice thing about the D-sonics is they are all basically boxed monoblocks, and he just crams them into a single chassis. The second place contender I would say was the sunfire 7401 as it was a ridiculously impressive amp for the size. 800 watts per channel 4 ohm in the fronts is good enough for almost any main speaker.
Thanks beast audio I was looking at the crown xls1500 drivecore to run my speakers. I was going to buy a few of them but I've been told through some retailers that the d class don't have enough headroom and they suffer in there high end. I've yet to try a D class ( in awaiting the crown xls 1500 drivecore ).
Franin is online now  
post #67 of 210 Old 09-03-2014, 06:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 14,631
Mentioned: 402 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5674 Post(s)
Liked: 5535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Thanks beast audio I was looking at the crown xls1500 drivecore to run my speakers. I was going to buy a few of them but I've been told through some retailers that the d class don't have enough headroom and they suffer in there high end. I've yet to try a D class ( in awaiting the crown xls 1500 drivecore ).
High FR is just fine with class D. I currently run an xls-2000 on my line source speakers in my den. It does an incredible job, plenty of headroom and these guys like a LOT of power. Saying that a class D doesn't have enough headroom is a pretty ignorant comment not even knowing what you are powering speaker-wise. Some/Most of the most powerful amps on the market right now incorporate class D tech as it is much more efficient, and able to deliver way more watts in a MUCH smaller footprint. the whole high-freq issue problem is a thing of the past these days in these current designs. The comments you have heard so far quite frankly is outdated, and bottom line incorrect at this point.

European Models do not accept banana plugs
Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
beastaudio is offline  
post #68 of 210 Old 09-03-2014, 08:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Big C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 38
I'm not the type who turns up the volume so high that my ears ring after I turn off my system, nor am I worried about power consumption or heat radiation. Therefore, headroom below 20Hz and above 20000Hz is what's important to me. Which has more headroom and smooth response throughout its entire range? Class A/B or Class D3? Like I said last night, I don't want to pay extra and give up tone quality for efficiency. The consumer electronics industry has already forced us to pay extra and give up plasma TV's picture quality for the efficiency of LCD TVs. Is Class A/B like the plasma TV of audio? Even though they can't get as loud as Class D3, do they have better tone quality, just like plasmas can't get as bright as LCDs, but they have better picture quality? Should I get a Class A/B receiver while they're still around and affordable? Or is Class D3 like the OLED TV of audio, and has more headroom below 20Hz and above 20000Hz, regardless of their efficiency and cool operation? I'm torn between the Pioneer Elite VSX-80 (Class A/B for $700) and the Pioneer Elite SC-81 (Class D3 for $1000).

Last edited by Big C; 09-03-2014 at 08:51 PM.
Big C is offline  
post #69 of 210 Old 09-03-2014, 10:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 5,361
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1495 Post(s)
Liked: 2097
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post
I'm not the type who turns up the volume so high that my ears ring after I turn off my system, nor am I worried about power consumption or heat radiation. Therefore, headroom below 20Hz and above 20000Hz is what's important to me. Which has more headroom and smooth response throughout its entire range? Class A/B or Class D3? Like I said last night, I don't want to pay extra and give up tone quality for efficiency. The consumer electronics industry has already forced us to pay extra and give up plasma TV's picture quality for the efficiency of LCD TVs. Is Class A/B like the plasma TV of audio? Even though they can't get as loud as Class D3, do they have better tone quality, just like plasmas can't get as bright as LCDs, but they have better picture quality? Should I get a Class A/B receiver while they're still around and affordable? Or is Class D3 like the OLED TV of audio, and has more headroom below 20Hz and above 20000Hz, regardless of their efficiency and cool operation? I'm torn between the Pioneer Elite VSX-80 (Class A/B for $700) and the Pioneer Elite SC-81 (Class D3 for $1000).
When is the last time you have checked to see if you can hear 20KHz? Do yourself a favor and find some test tones to play through your system. Play a 20KHz tone and let us know if you can actually hear it... I believe the highest I could personally hear was 18KHz when I tried listening to test tones.

What speakers do you have that you need headroom down to 20Hz? I know of very very few full range speakers with a +/-3db point down to 20Hz. Regardless, anything below 80Hz is typically reserved for a dedicated subwoofer...

So, what is my point? I don't believe you have taken the time to really understand wht you "want" and why you want it, much less how the specs you are quoting translate to the listening experience.

Also, you keep referring to "tone quality." As mentioned earlier here, the goal of any amplifier should be transparency in order to "amplify" the original source material. Any amplifier that supposedly alters the "tone quality" is adding some type of distortion or "coloration" to the original content.

This maybe hard for you to accept, but you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between amplifiers in a properly setup A/B test comparing the two side-by-side. I've dabbled a bit in A/B switching and found this to be the case for me as well. In fact there is/was a guy out there that used to offer a $10,000 reward to anyone that could tell a difference.
mojogoes likes this.
popalock is offline  
post #70 of 210 Old 09-04-2014, 05:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Big C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
When is the last time you have checked to see if you can hear 20KHz? Do yourself a favor and find some test tones to play through your system. Play a 20KHz tone and let us know if you can actually hear it... I believe the highest I could personally hear was 18KHz when I tried listening to test tones.

What speakers do you have that you need headroom down to 20Hz? I know of very very few full range speakers with a +/-3db point down to 20Hz. Regardless, anything below 80Hz is typically reserved for a dedicated subwoofer...

So, what is my point? I don't believe you have taken the time to really understand wht you "want" and why you want it, much less how the specs you are quoting translate to the listening experience.

Also, you keep referring to "tone quality." As mentioned earlier here, the goal of any amplifier should be transparency in order to "amplify" the original source material. Any amplifier that supposedly alters the "tone quality" is adding some type of distortion or "coloration" to the original content.

This maybe hard for you to accept, but you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between amplifiers in a properly setup A/B test comparing the two side-by-side. I've dabbled a bit in A/B switching and found this to be the case for me as well. In fact there is/was a guy out there that used to offer a $10,000 reward to anyone that could tell a difference.
My seven speakers are a Yamaha NS-AP5700BLF per channel. I think these speakers are so good that I don't need a subwoofer. While not using a subwoofer, I can hear a difference between setting speaker options to Large, and Small with a 50Hz crossover, which suggests to me that my speakers are full-range. As someone who is sight-impaired, I pay more attention to things I hear. I can notice the difference between things such as CDs (from 20Hz-20000Hz) and SACDs (from 0Hz-50000Hz or 0Hz-100000Hz depending on whether the cutoff filter is used) of the same track, as well as when turning HDMI jitter reduction on and off. Even if I can't hear below and above certain frequencies, being able to reproduce as wide a range as possible would ensure plenty of overtones below and above the primary pitches of something being played through my system.

Last edited by Big C; 09-04-2014 at 05:35 AM.
Big C is offline  
post #71 of 210 Old 09-04-2014, 07:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 5,361
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1495 Post(s)
Liked: 2097
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post
My seven speakers are a Yamaha NS-AP5700BLF per channel. I think these speakers are so good that I don't need a subwoofer. While not using a subwoofer, I can hear a difference between setting speaker options to Large, and Small with a 50Hz crossover, which suggests to me that my speakers are full-range.
I highlighted a key word in your response. Aren't you interested in knowing vs thinking? If you want to "understand" what you are hearing, you need a way to objectively measure what you are subjectively hearing. I've looked into the Yamaha speaker that you referenced. It's a respectable bookshelf, just based on the limited specs that I could find, and I'm sure it performs well for you. That said, would you agree that it's hard for someone to miss something that they have not experienced?

There is plenty of content below 50Hz in music and especially movies. If you were to directly compare your system back to back to someone with a properly integrated sub with a response down to 20Hz (or so) I would hazard a guess that it would be an eye opening experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post
As someone who is sight-impaired, I pay more attention to things I hear. I can notice the difference between things such as CDs (from 20Hz-20000Hz) and SACDs (from 0Hz-50000Hz or 0Hz-100000Hz depending on whether the cutoff filter is used) of the same track, as well as when turning HDMI jitter reduction on and off.
Sorry to hear about your sight issues. While I understand what you are attempting to convey, I am not an authority on the topic and I don't have any proof that I can reference to counter your subjective opinions on being able to tell the difference between different audio formats. I recall @arnyk and @Bill Fitzmaurice being versed on the topic of ABX testing. They may be able to provide some insight on the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post
Even if I can't hear below and above certain frequencies, being able to reproduce as wide a range as possible would ensure plenty of overtones below and above the primary pitches of something being played through my system.
How can one hear "plenty of overtones below and above the primary pitches of something being played," if they don't have a baseline of what they can actually hear? Why would overtones matter if you couldn't hear them anyway?!?!?!?

Have you tried the Phillips Golden Ear Challenge? I find it pretty entertaining, but also informative in providing context on how to pinpoint changes in music content real-time. Make an account, throw on some headphones and give it a shot. Since you already have enhanced hearing, you should do well!
popalock is offline  
post #72 of 210 Old 09-05-2014, 12:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
tom669's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post
Class D to Class A/B is what LCD is to Plasma. Advantages in some areas like weight, energy efficiency, and running cooler but not in ultimate performance. Just depends what's important to you. By the way I own a Pioneer Elite 151.
Except you can measure the difference between LCD and plasma, it's huge. And obvious to the eye.

Put a good AB amp and a good D amp in a room, and people can't tell the difference, and there is no measureably significant difference (THD, noisefloor, etc.)
popalock and Madmax67 like this.
tom669 is offline  
post #73 of 210 Old 09-05-2014, 06:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Big C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 38
While the manufacturers want to make money, they might be clearer about the pros and cons than I thought. For example, Samsung says that plasma TVs offer high contrast and rich color, while LCD TVs are efficient and work well in bright rooms. I just read some product detail pages and played some youtube videos by Pioneer Electronics (Pioneer USA). After everyone bought into the efficiency of LCD TVs, as well as the fact that they work well in bright rooms, Pioneer could have made good on the fact that you'd save your electric bill if you spend a little extra on a receiver with Class D3 amps. However, before Pioneer even mentions efficiency, they explain how Class D3 amps further show off high-resolution audio formats, both in dynamic range and in frequency response. Also, unlike previous Class D implementations, they state that their Class D3 amps don't use electromagnetic interferance filters, feedback loops, and current limiting. Considering that wide frequency response and wide dynamic range are my priority over volume, I have good reason to be convinced to go for the SC-81. So now, the evidence points to Class D3 to Class A/B and older Class D being what OLED is to plasma and LCD! So let's give Class D3 a round of applause!

Last edited by Big C; 09-05-2014 at 06:30 AM.
Big C is offline  
post #74 of 210 Old 09-05-2014, 08:53 PM
Member
 
snowbob230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Maybe
snowbob230 is offline  
post #75 of 210 Old 09-05-2014, 09:01 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,923
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 155
Some class D amps seem to have load invariance issues ( in that they are not sufficiently load invariant.)

There's a number of different implementations and some (so called) high end amps have used class D.

Seems a person really needs to make up their own mind. There's people who think solid state was a mistake so I doubt they will care for class D

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #76 of 210 Old 09-05-2014, 09:02 PM
wse
AVS Forum Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 9,503
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2207 Post(s)
Liked: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Did the NCore have a warm and creamy sound?
Warm and creamy sounds like a doughnut

popalock likes this.
wse is offline  
post #77 of 210 Old 09-08-2014, 05:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
Except you can measure the difference between LCD and plasma, it's huge. And obvious to the eye.

Put a good AB amp and a good D amp in a room, and people can't tell the difference, and there is no measureably significant difference (THD, noisefloor, etc.)
Then they must be the same. They should probably just call them all amps instead of all those different classes.

Mankite
mankite is offline  
post #78 of 210 Old 09-09-2014, 12:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 5,361
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1495 Post(s)
Liked: 2097
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
Except you can measure the difference between LCD and plasma, it's huge. And obvious to the eye.

Put a good AB amp and a good D amp in a room, and people can't tell the difference, and there is no measureably significant difference (THD, noisefloor, etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post
Then they must be the same. They should probably just call them all amps instead of all those different classes.
Since transparency is (should be) the goal for all amplifiers, souldn't they all technically "sound" the same???

Now that we all agree they should subjectively sound the same, that has nothing the amplifier class. The classes/topology "describes how current is "steered," or controlled, within a power amplifier before it is delivered to a speaker load." Source.
popalock is offline  
post #79 of 210 Old 09-09-2014, 04:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Since transparency is (should be) the goal for all amplifiers, souldn't they all technically "sound" the same???

Now that we all agree they should subjectively sound the same, that has nothing the amplifier class. The classes/topology "describes how current is "steered," or controlled, within a power amplifier before it is delivered to a speaker load." Source.
Yeah they should, but they don't.

Mankite
mankite is offline  
post #80 of 210 Old 09-09-2014, 05:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
tom669's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post
Yeah they should, but they don't.
They do, once you get up to a point, and avoid specialist equipment like tube amplifiers.
tom669 is offline  
post #81 of 210 Old 09-09-2014, 05:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
tom669's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post
Then they must be the same. They should probably just call them all amps instead of all those different classes.
This is a silly argument. I suppose we should call a kettle and a cooking hob the same name? After all, I can boil water on both, and the water comes out the same.

I suppose we should call petrol and diesel engines the same, after all they get me from A to B in roughly the same manner.

The class of amplifier shouldn't matter AB vs D, but it's useful to know that it's more efficient (class D with SMPS) or can handle transient high loads better (class AB with mains transformer.)
tom669 is offline  
post #82 of 210 Old 09-09-2014, 06:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 66
If what you say is true why is this question even being asked? Why would 100-180 pound amps not have gone the way of the dinosaur? The class D amps are lighter, more efficient, and run cooler. They just come in 2nd in one area, sound quality. And why were Class D amps not ready for prime time 5 years ago? Do they sound different now then they did then? But amps can't sound different!!! Ugggghhhh does not compute.

Mankite

Last edited by mankite; 09-09-2014 at 06:42 PM.
mankite is offline  
post #83 of 210 Old 09-10-2014, 01:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
tom669's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post
If what you say is true why is this question even being asked? Why would 100-180 pound amps not have gone the way of the dinosaur? The class D amps are lighter, more efficient, and run cooler. They just come in 2nd in one area, sound quality. And why were Class D amps not ready for prime time 5 years ago? Do they sound different now then they did then? But amps can't sound different!!! Ugggghhhh does not compute.
Technology evolves so yes, they have improved to the point of being indistinguishable. The first generation was pretty poor, but as transitor and control loop design has improved, class D has got better.

Class D costs more to build for powers >100Wpc hence why we still see boat anchor amplifiers.

And you might see the RCA 1000W class D dvd surround amplifier in walmart. $45... Yeah, that's a real product... Actual output close to 60W across all channels. Clips early and hard. The cheap class D built in surround DVD/bluray aren't capable of anything near to what they claim... Mainly because the PSU can't support multiple channels at high load.

If you want a good class D amp it'll cost more than a good class AB all other things being the same. Only advantages are cooler running, better linearity (only at high output powers) and better efficiency.

Last edited by tom669; 09-10-2014 at 04:05 AM. Reason: formatting
tom669 is offline  
post #84 of 210 Old 09-10-2014, 02:36 AM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 66
How can class D get better? All amps sound the same, remember?
mankite is offline  
post #85 of 210 Old 09-10-2014, 05:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
tom669's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post
How can class D get better? All amps sound the same, remember?
They do NOW. Did I say the amps of old sounded the same as today? A lot of older class D amplifiers had issues with high frequency response, transient stability, and power handling. MOSFET switching speeds have increased (and charge injection decreased) to the point where a GOOD class D amp is indistinguishable from GOOD class AB amp.

I'll rephrase: a modern 2014 class D amplifier built by a respectable manufacturer will sound identical to a modern 2014 class AB amplifier built by a respectable manufacturer, all other conditions being the same (power handling, impedance, speakers, source, etc.)
mojogoes, trmoore2 and Jonas2 like this.
tom669 is offline  
post #86 of 210 Old 09-10-2014, 06:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MSchu18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked: 362
this "sounds like" metaphor is played out... the D sounds Better, not like.

My Name is Nobody...
Klipsch x11i - Klipsch x20i - Oppo HA2
Pioneer SC85 - Bel Canto REF 500M
Klipsch La Scala II - Klipsch Cornwall/Crites/Aletheia Audio - Klipsch RC64II - SW-115
Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse - OPPO BDP-93
Samsung PN64D8000
MSchu18 is offline  
post #87 of 210 Old 09-10-2014, 12:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 66
So amps can sound different just not today.
mankite is offline  
post #88 of 210 Old 09-24-2014, 09:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pottscb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,725
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 317 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
The output inductor on class D is to filter out the switching freq.

For diyer's here's where to get the latest greatest Anaview modules

http://www.profusionplc.com/pro/gex/pcatdtl0.html

I believe they're used in the latest D-Sonics.
Yes, I saw on an Audiogon forum last night where the lead engineer at D-Sonic (Dennis?) commented that the last of the old amp modules had been sold as B-stock and now every amp sold by D-Sonic is the new Anaview module, which is great. NAD's building on Ncore. I'd love to try either, but they're damned expensive for what ya get...heck, they're even expensive to build DIY. $3K for a 7 channel D-Sonic and $2500 for DIY. Maybe I'll build stereo monoblocks first and wait for mass-production to bring down the cost or 7 channel (or 11 channel Atmos) amps.
pottscb is offline  
post #89 of 210 Old 10-03-2014, 03:25 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 23,118
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2163 Post(s)
Liked: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post
$3K for a 7 channel D-Sonic and $2500 for DIY.
Four stereo AMS modules are $1460, then add a few hundred for case and connectors.

I added to my cart to check on $shipping but they're out of stock.

Noah
noah katz is online now  
post #90 of 210 Old 10-03-2014, 03:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ricoflashback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 3,383
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1836 Post(s)
Liked: 1286
So the perfect marriage is Plasma with a Class A/B amplifier.

In correct mathematical terms, the equation is as follows: Plasma (Heat + Buzz) + Class A/B Amplifier (Heat) = 2H + Buzz

Home Theater Setup
SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, BenQ W1080ST, Denon X5200 & Emotiva XPA-3
AudioSource 100VS, OPPO 103 & Samsung K8500, 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's,
V.2 (FL/FR), CC-690 (C), V.5, ADP 590 V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub,
Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides)
Ricoflashback is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Community News & Polls

Tags
frontpage , Polls

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off