Are You More of an Audio Objectivist or Subjectivist? - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Are You More of an Audio Objectivist or Subjectivist?
Objectivist 121 55.00%
Subjectivist 99 45.00%
Voters: 220. You may not vote on this poll

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post #211 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
https://www.google.com/search?q=defi...oe=&gws_rd=ssl


Eventually, someone might pay more for your house as a result of your bathroom.


Most people stop upgrading their bathrooms. They do not continuously go onto forums trying to improve the flush.
In my view, there are hobbies, serious hobbies, and OCD hobbies

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post #212 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 01:20 PM
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Hmm - I am very objective about the subjective aspects of music. But in no way - am I the least bit subjective about the objective specifications of sound energy.

Listening to [and measuring] a reproduction of a musical performance is not analogous to measuring the accuracy of sound waves through different transducers.

My perspective suggests that each audiophile brings their own selective type of bias, priorities and compromises to each listening experience. What we do here, is discuss which ones matter to us - and how much.

As far as being one type "ist" or the other - it just depends which aspects of sound you listening for.
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post #213 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
https://www.google.com/search?q=defi...oe=&gws_rd=ssl


Eventually, someone might pay more for your house as a result of your bathroom.


Most people stop upgrading their bathrooms. They do not continuously go onto forums trying to improve the flush.
In my view, there are hobbies, serious hobbies, and OCD hobbies

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Not my wife.
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post #214 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I voted objectivist but understanding the limitations of our current measurements, I also appreciate subjective reviews.

- Rich

I have always appreciated subjective reviews as well. I really enjoy reading about, and writing about, the subjective experience produced by gear. The question of whether someone else's subjective impressions could be of any use always fascinated me, and ultimately I found the answer to be "yes." Not near always of course, but I was often enough quite taken by how accurately some writers conveyed the differences I myself heard between A and B speakers, and how a perceptive writer could really give me a good idea of what I would hear from a component.

When I wrote about speakers (and later, more modestly, "reported on" lots of flat panels on AVS) my ultimate goal
was to be an extended pair of ears (or eyes) for someone who couldn't be there. The goal being "if you were sitting in front of this system, THIS is what you'd hear." While there are all sorts of caveats involved in such a goal, it was very gratifying to see just how often this worked out in practice.
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post #215 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 02:19 PM
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Imagic. Here is another one. Do you enjoy the pauses that refresh in your bath room or your HT more? I am firmly in the bath room camp. I do it regularly and I don't get paid for it. I certainly enjoy it and the alternative is certainly not at all pleasurable for me. So going to the bath room must be another one of my hobbies and having a pleasing and top performing one with all the accoutrements including upgrades from time to time is just another hobbyist exercise. Thanks. I got it now. I understand.
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post #216 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 02:32 PM
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I was watching a program called Center Stage and I don't remember who the sports figure being interviewed was, but he sais in his bathroom he put in a urinal which he considered rather sensible being a man. Makes sense to me. There's your upgrade, Mark.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #217 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post
I have a friendly bet for you on the "stabilize DA by in essence saturating the dielectrics".

I will send you two sets of cables randomly labeled. Terminated single ended RCA or balanced.

One set will be 'burned in' with pink noise for 100 hours. One set not used. In advance I will post an encrypted zip file detailing which are and are not the burned in cables.

You have 30 days, any ears only assessment, totally sighted and you can listen as long or short as you want.

You have to simply tell me which pair sounds burned in and we will see if it lines up with the answer key.
Hi. Thank you for your offer. Unfortunately, I do not at present have a top quality audio system set up. Also the specific cables, the treated and the control, both the same, will make a huge difference as to the effects of burn in as well as where located in the system. Yes the construction of the cable is much more imperative the lower the voltage it is expected to carry and the accuracy of the transmissions. Doe it reproduce very very tiny changes such as at high frequencies. I have done all this years ago and I have reached my own conclusions, another is periodically demagnetizing speaker cross overs which can be done with playing the right type of test signal.
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post #218 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post
I was watching a program called Center Stage and I don't remember who the sports figure being interviewed was, but he sais in his bathroom he put in a urinal which he considered rather sensible being a man. Makes sense to me. There's your upgrade, Mark.
urinals are kind of the thing for bathrooms by home theaters.
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post #219 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 03:33 PM
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Hi Chu and Randy. Long time.
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post #220 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 03:36 PM
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Years ago while house shopping, the house had a huge game room with everything imaginable, lots of pin ball, air hockey, puck bowling, everything. The bathroom attached had urinals.
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post #221 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 03:58 PM
 
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Where is Amir and Arny; it's from people like them that I learn to activate my brain into a higher dimensional level.

They think, they are, they are not, they are just like the rest of us, but using words in different arrangements, and love graphs made by their laptops using tools that are electrical and scientific devices more or less flaw.

Without Amir and Arny I wouldn't have this level of participation (particle) from them audio forums.
There are people in life who activate cells in our brain, and them two are part of that elite.
With them I can go where I never thought I could.

They are the food we need, to grow intellectually in our world of audio folie.

EVERYONE, every human being deserves la parole. We all have some' to say, and an objectivist is someone who listen and calculate intelligently/diligently, with an expert ear.

In all of us there is an objectivist, and a subjectivist, and an idealist, and a surrealist.
Nobody was born yesterday, but we are born everyday.
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post #222 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 05:04 PM
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I am curious. What type of gear lube do you use?

Even if Amir and Arny become no shows, we will be alright. We have Scott and that's all we need. He is like Johnny Appleseed. He plants the seed and then goes to plant another. Its up to us to nurture the tree until it bears fruit. And that often takes organic fertilizer. So maybe we need them.
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post #223 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post
I have a friendly bet for you on the "stabilize DA by in essence saturating the dielectrics".

I will send you two sets of cables randomly labeled. Terminated single ended RCA or balanced.

One set will be 'burned in' with pink noise for 100 hours. One set not used. In advance I will post an encrypted zip file detailing which are and are not the burned in cables.

You have 30 days, any ears only assessment, totally sighted and you can listen as long or short as you want.

You have to simply tell me which pair sounds burned in and we will see if it lines up with the answer key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Hi. Thank you for your offer. Unfortunately, I do not at present have a top quality audio system set up. Also the specific cables, the treated and the control, both the same, will make a huge difference as to the effects of burn in as well as where located in the system. Yes the construction of the cable is much more imperative the lower the voltage it is expected to carry and the accuracy of the transmissions. Doe it reproduce very very tiny changes such as at high frequencies. I have done all this years ago and I have reached my own conclusions, another is periodically demagnetizing speaker cross overs which can be done with playing the right type of test signal.
Thanks for the confirmation. Not like I really needed it but I'll consider it another log on the pile.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #224 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I am curious. What type of gear lube do you use?

Even if Amir and Arny become no shows, we will be alright. We have Scott and that's all we need. He is like Johnny Appleseed. He plants the seed and then goes to plant another. Its up to us to nurture the tree until it bears fruit. And that often takes organic fertilizer. So maybe we need them.

Do we have to give the fruit back to Scott? Cuz that's bogus if we do, man. I may quit.
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post #225 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 09:04 PM
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Naw. Just praise him for planting the seeds and be sure not to criticize the variety he plants based on the selection not being appropriate for the climatic zone because the seed supplier gave him incorrect information despite what the seed package label said on the package he gave Scott. Seriously, while Scott has obviously chosen to ignore all of my posts including comments, questions, and corrections, I still respect the great job he performs for all of us here. This is a tough place and a difficult one if one, for example, is overly sensitive. Not pointing a finger here at anyone, of course. The more one writes and posts, the broader the subject matter that one tries to cover and exhibit some modicum of expertise on, the more likely that errors will creep in and that someone here will call you out on. Happens to me all the time.
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post #226 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 09:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I am curious. What type of gear lube do you use?

Even if Amir and Arny become no shows, we will be alright. We have Scott and that's all we need. He is like Johnny Appleseed. He plants the seed and then goes to plant another. Its up to us to nurture the tree until it bears fruit. And that often takes organic fertilizer. So maybe we need them.
Scott is good too; perhaps a zombie of the avant-garde, an avantgardiste.

* The lube we use, the life we had/have; it's all resulting into the same, into the future of our destiny.

Are you a believer, in what? ...Are you a follower, of what? ...That's all it truly matters.
Tell me if you are an objectivist or a subjectivist or an anarchist or both three and we should be able to deconstruct your origin.
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post #227 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 09:36 PM
 
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsOfQVTkmDwwww.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm__TU45RWowww.youtube.com/watch?v=oNgvCWLii-E

Last edited by NorthSky; 10-20-2014 at 09:39 PM.
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post #228 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 09:49 PM
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elitist
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Scott is good too; perhaps a zombie of the avant-garde, an avantgardiste.

* The lube we use, the life we had/have; it's all resulting into the same, into the future of our destiny.

Are you a believer, in what? ...Are you a follower, of what? ...That's all it truly matters.
Tell me if you are an objectivist or a subjectivist or an anarchist or both three and we should be able to deconstruct your origin.
I am constructive elitist troll.

In culinary matters, I favor and practice the art of deconstructing the various elements of traditional dishes and elevating each major element individually into sublime creations both artistically and taste wise ala the school of Jose Andres.

Last edited by mark haflich; 10-20-2014 at 09:59 PM.
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post #229 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 09:56 PM
 
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You said it; I did not.
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post #230 of 264 Old 10-20-2014, 10:34 PM
 
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My two best friends; they said to me: Bob, why are you frequenting audio/video forums, they all lying there.
I said: What's rewarding in that if it's true.

It's not for everyone, just like Facebook, and Twitter. ...And thirty years ago, we didn't have access to the world like we do now.

One thing must remain, always; a sense of direction. Without, we are lost in a sea of deceptions.

What have you been watching, listening to lately?

Last edited by NorthSky; 10-20-2014 at 10:50 PM.
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post #231 of 264 Old 10-21-2014, 04:32 AM
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NFL football and the World series, is there anything else? Of course in upscaled 4K. I suppose there is, my wife watched Dancing with the Stars.
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post #232 of 264 Old 10-21-2014, 04:34 AM
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You said it; I did not.
My posts tell it exactly like it is. You asked, I answered. Where is the like?
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post #233 of 264 Old 10-21-2014, 11:01 AM
 
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Mark, you are a leader. Scott is a leader. Amir is a leader. Arny is a leader.
We are all leaders, we are all special.

So tell me, why is the world so divided @ times?
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post #234 of 264 Old 10-21-2014, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Mark, you are a leader. Scott is a leader. Amir is a leader. Arny is a leader.
We are all leaders, we are all special.

So tell me, why is the world so divided @ times?
Too many chiefs, not enough braves?

"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."
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That's the objective view.
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post #236 of 264 Old 10-21-2014, 02:50 PM
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Honored Colleges;


If I may bring us from bathrooms to audio. I am firmly in the objective camp. I believe that flat accurate sound is the ideal to reproduce audio in our listening/viewing rooms. It makes no sense to me that people who decry blind listening tests would extoll the " musicality " of one product over another. with no objective basis to back it up. This to me is the same as putting a brick on amplifier, putting a green stripe on the edge of a CD, or have a speaker wire ( I mean "cable") the size of your wrist and then have it resting on special wooden blocks made of Brazilian Expensowood while plugging in their electro deionizer harmonic stabilization unit. There, I said it. As far as enjoyment is concerned, we all have different tastes and while the mechanics of hearing are the same, the perceptions can be radically different. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
But no matter what my or your preference might be, we are all at the mercy of the recording engineer. BTW my favorite engineers are Keith Johnson (the Professor) and the late John Eargle. They got the orchestra to sound as close as it can get.

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post #237 of 264 Old 10-21-2014, 06:56 PM
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Years ago spent hours talking with Keith. He did not get the orchestra to sound as close to . . . , he got the sound of the orchestra to sound reasonably close to how would it sound to you in the particular hall sitting in mid hall center. A that would be using Spectral Audio play back equipment with a selected speaker in what was called a 3D listening room. Using MIT interconnects and speaker wires, the speaker wires needed to be a certain level of MIT wires to prevent the output devices in the Spectral amps from self destructing due to the amp having no coil in the amp to prevent extreme high frequency oscillation. The MIT boxes provided the necessary impedance to prevent the oscillation.
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post #238 of 264 Old 10-21-2014, 07:24 PM
 
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Keith Richards?
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post #239 of 264 Old 10-21-2014, 08:05 PM
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"Prof." Keith Johnson, subjectivist and believer in typical audiophile woo.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #240 of 264 Old 10-22-2014, 06:56 AM
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I start with objective idealism in terms of set up, addressing room modes, speaker placement, etc.

Then prefer an objectively ideal EQ and room correction...

Then, subjectively fine tune all other objective actions to my ear.
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Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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