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post #241 of 257 Old 04-17-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Rob,
I tried to find your speakers, but came up empty. Most everything discussed is about the amps. Do you have any pics of the speakers?
Yeah, they're hard to find. Here's a pic I saved from a Japanese website long time ago. It's not entirely accurate. In the center of the unit I have there is a different tweeter. And there are only 2 Peerless tweeters instead of 7! This must be an earlier iteration. I'll try & take some current pictures of my own 340s (& Listening Room) and upload them here. They look really strange in that there are so many (inexpensive) drivers. By looking at the speaker it would seem like there would be massive phase issues, diffuse imaging, harshness, etc. How could these speakers even sound halfway decent? On the contrary, they sound liquid & delicate, light but with body. And they are _extraordinary_ imaging speakers. The trick is in the crossover (and the knobs on the back that control the phase of each driver). Keith couldn't believe it when he finally heard them... He said "I could listen to these for hours and hours."

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

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post #242 of 257 Old 04-17-2018, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Droogne View Post
Maybe a controversial topic, but I was wondering how you picked you surround/height channels. Did timbre/voice (and quality) matching come to mind or what was the thought process behind it? I'm designing my own theatre (10 000 more humble than yours, but I'm still ambitious) and when I saw the gear you picked I wondered if it would truly be beneficiary to match all my speakers (what I'm trying to do) to the extent that I was planning to. I'm using all active crossovers.
I think Keith Yates actually answered this exact question in either this thread or in my theater build thread. I was trying to find it for you but it's getting late tonight, so maybe I can find it tomorrow? Have you read both threads - maybe you can find it before I do?

Timbre/voice matching was extremely important to us and was one of the reasons we went with all JBLs. Frankly, I had to leave the surround & height decisions to Keith and trust that he would use the right speakers we needed to balance the sound with what we would be getting from the M2s (whose choice I was very involved with). There were more parameters than just voice matching - each speaker was chosen for its dispersion capability as well as their ability to handle peak events in a linear fashion, without distortion. I drilled into him that whatever speakers we used, they could _not_ sound harsh.

Needless to say, I'm more than thrilled with how the system sounds. So beautifully balanced, no bad seats and most important - no listener fatigue!

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...-rob-hahn.html
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post #243 of 257 Old 04-18-2018, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Hahn View Post
I think Keith Yates actually answered this exact question in either this thread or in my theater build thread. I was trying to find it for you but it's getting late tonight, so maybe I can find it tomorrow? Have you read both threads - maybe you can find it before I do?

Timbre/voice matching was extremely important to us and was one of the reasons we went with all JBLs. Frankly, I had to leave the surround & height decisions to Keith and trust that he would use the right speakers we needed to balance the sound with what we would be getting from the M2s (whose choice I was very involved with). There were more parameters than just voice matching - each speaker was chosen for its dispersion capability as well as their ability to handle peak events in a linear fashion, without distortion. I drilled into him that whatever speakers we used, they could _not_ sound harsh.

Needless to say, I'm more than thrilled with how the system sounds. So beautifully balanced, no bad seats and most important - no listener fatigue!

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...-rob-hahn.html
I have read through both threads, but I must admit that I didn't search specifically enough before asking.. I'll do that first! I can already say that it looks like you made a great choice trusting something like that to someone with a lot of experience. It's not like you can easily and confidently do this while only looking at specs.
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post #244 of 257 Old 04-18-2018, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Hahn View Post
I drilled into him that whatever speakers we used, they could _not_ sound harsh.
Is the lack of harshness strictly from the speaker choices? Or are you EQing the treble as well?
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post #245 of 257 Old 04-19-2018, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Hahn View Post
I'll try & take some current pictures of my own 340s (& Listening Room) and upload them here.
Looking forward to that!

Denon AVR-4500h Polk Rt-6000 (Rt-3000,Cs-1000, Rt-2000) 2 random subs Vizio M70
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post #246 of 257 Old 04-22-2018, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bochoss View Post
Is the lack of harshness strictly from the speaker choices? Or are you EQing the treble as well?
Choice of speakers for the most part. Keith does use the Lakes for some tweaking, but it's minimal. The thing we were trying to get right was to pick the right speaker (of course) but also to get the room to behave properly (meaning, no ringing)! And all the massive acoustic treatments also help in reducing glare without sacrificing dialog intelligibility.

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

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post #247 of 257 Old 04-22-2018, 03:28 PM
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Rob,
I would like to get your opinion if you don't mind, since you are a professional.

I was looking at the the Peru 8k clip on youtube awhile back which led me to the Timestorm videos.
https://www.youtube.com/user/martinheck1

Those videos look great to me on my LG OLED. Do these videos look like a high quality reference material in your opinion?

I then noticed that Red has released a new Monstro camera. Their video introduction with it is Iron Horse.

I thought the video looked good especially the dynamic range. Reading the comments though suggests otherwise. Is it really that bad?

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
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post #248 of 257 Old 04-23-2018, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Rob,
I would like to get your opinion if you don't mind, since you are a professional.

I was looking at the the Peru 8k clip on youtube awhile back which led me to the Timestorm videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1La4QzGeaaQ
https://www.youtube.com/user/martinheck1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVM2fARKUok

Those videos look great to me on my LG OLED. Do these videos look like a high quality reference material in your opinion?

I then noticed that Red has released a new Monstro camera. Their video introduction with it is Iron Horse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xLaHg63yK0

I thought the video looked good especially the dynamic range. Reading the comments though suggests otherwise. Is it really that bad?
I'll take a look at these on my Sony 5000 next time I have a minute. Frankly I've never delved into the 8K stuff on YouTube, mostly because I have _so_ much content I need/want to see, from having nothing of note to watch movies on for so many years - I'm just so behind!

But I'll try 'em out and let you know...

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...-rob-hahn.html
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post #249 of 257 Old 04-23-2018, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Hahn View Post
I'll take a look at these on my Sony 5000 next time I have a minute. Frankly I've never delved into the 8K stuff on YouTube, mostly because I have _so_ much content I need/want to see, from having nothing of note to watch movies on for so many years - I'm just so behind!

But I'll try 'em out and let you know...

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...-rob-hahn.html
Thanks I appreciate your input.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
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post #250 of 257 Old 04-26-2018, 01:22 PM
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Rob,

Another quick question...

Do you still watch movies in commercial theaters or do you just wait for the home release and view it in your home theater?
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post #251 of 257 Old 05-02-2018, 12:53 PM
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Rob,

Another quick question...

Do you still watch movies in commercial theaters or do you just wait for the home release and view it in your home theater?
The latter. Since I've finished my theater, I haven't set foot in a commercial theater. Maybe if I lived in New York City, I might venture out... then again, I might not.

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...-rob-hahn.html
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post #252 of 257 Unread 02-09-2019, 01:41 PM
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Great design, 3 rows - it looks like a commercial cinema , i wish i had a big room like yours
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post #253 of 257 Unread 05-31-2019, 11:37 AM
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The 8 white (or grey?) 2u equipment in the middle rack?

Does anyone know what the 8 white units at the bottom of the middle rack are? Brand and model?

I can't paste jpg url but it's the 5th photo of the first post showing the rack equipment

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post #254 of 257 Unread 05-31-2019, 04:49 PM
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Nevermind on that last question. I lucked out and found a random image that had the same units and they look like they are "JL Audio FATHOM SAv2 Subwoofer Amplifier".

A new question is, if the Lab.gruppen Lake LM 26 DSP crossover was used for LCR mains and subs, was the extra functionality of those JL Audio subwoofer amps superfluous? Could 8 regular power amps be used without adjustable knobs for "LP Filter" and "LP Freq"?
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post #255 of 257 Unread 06-02-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by quadryda View Post
Great design, 3 rows - it looks like a commercial cinema , i wish i had a big room like yours
Trust me if you had been in the room,as I have , you would wish even more.

Art
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post #256 of 257 Unread 06-08-2019, 06:07 AM
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Lab Gruppen's products with Dolby Lake are fantastic but I would warn anyone using them that they are often loud (I have not used the specific product in this thread) and you would not generally want them inside your theater (sound isolated from both the theater and bedrooms).

The advantage of course is that you can PEQ every single channel with high resolution if you choose to do this. This can be an option if you choose not to do this within the Trinnov.

Permanently EQ'd speakers do have the advantage of being processor agnostic so that you can change your receiver in the future if you chose to without skipping a beat.

Blazar!
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post #257 of 257 Unread 06-20-2019, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wylist2 View Post
Nevermind on that last question. I lucked out and found a random image that had the same units and they look like they are "JL Audio FATHOM SAv2 Subwoofer Amplifier".

A new question is, if the Lab.gruppen Lake LM 26 DSP crossover was used for LCR mains and subs, was the extra functionality of those JL Audio subwoofer amps superfluous? Could 8 regular power amps be used without adjustable knobs for "LP Filter" and "LP Freq"?
No, not superfluous, as the amps are designed to linearize the SHOC24 subwoofers' free-field response, i.e. if you put the SHOC24 sub in a suitably large anechoic test chamber (or outdoors) it will give you a textbook flat response when partnered with this particular amp. (If you used the amp on a subwoofer with, say, a different driver and/or enclosure dimensions, the response would have a different (non-flat) shape.) Because the companion amps are designed and programmed by JL exclusively for KYD's unique driver & enclosure combination, the system's electrical, physical, thermal etc. limits are known and incorporated in the amp's circuitry to keep driver and amp within their clean, safe operating areas. This helps us get the output, extension and low distortion we're looking for in an enclosure that's only 6 inches deep.

The Lake LM DSPs, on the other hand, are used to shape the subwoofer system's global response in Rob's room. We spec'd Lakes because the math engine behind their filter construction allows my calibration team and me to drill down as far as we'd like in our tweaking without having to worry that we're simultaneously creating a batch of new, unintended issues (incl. adjacent filter interactions) -- problems that bedeviled audio engineers for decades ... until Lake came along. (If you're mathematically inclined, google "root raised cosine filters" and look up David McGrath's and Justin Baird's "Raised Cosine Equalization Utilizing Log Scale Filter Synthesis," delivered at AES Convention 117 (October 2004). It's paper number 6257.

Hope that helps.

-Keith

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