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-   -   Poll: HDR TV vs. Front Projection for UHD/4K HDR Home Cinema (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-community-news-polls/2927534-poll-hdr-tv-vs-front-projection-uhd-4k-hdr-home-cinema.html)

imagic 10-20-2017 08:09 AM

Poll: HDR TV vs. Front Projection for UHD/4K HDR Home Cinema
 
4K/UHD and HDR are undeniably a killer combo when it comes to bringing cinematic image quality home. Today's TVs deliver color and contrast that is unprecedented, and movies mastered for home viewing in high dynamic range possess peak highlights that no projector can reproduce. This begs the question: Are TVs now the ultimate way to watch a movie at home, or does projection still supply the best viewing experience?

Before taking the poll, let's take a quick look at current state-of-the-art in-home video. On the TV side, thanks to HDR, 1000-nit highlights are a reality, as is virtually complete coverage of the DCI/P3 gamut used in commercial cinema. The result is striking imagery that "pops" off the screen. And as a bonus, with a TV you can still enjoy optimal image quality with some ambient light in the room.

However, the catch with UHD TVs is that to get the very best contrast you have to go with OLED, a technology that is limited in terms of available screen sizesnand pricey if you go above 65 inches in size. Meanwhile, if you're looking for a larger and more affordable LCD, you give up some performance in terms of rendering deep blacks and once you pass 88 inches, prices skyrocket.

Projection has a different set of strengths and weaknesses, as compared TVs. For one, the cost of entry to 4K and HDR is higher; you're going to have to invest a few thousand bucks to get that capability. But, you immediately have access to screen sizes TVs cannot reach, regardless of price.

The catch with projection is that peak highlights are but a fraction of what even a modest HDR TV can offer, so HDR projectors are much more dependent upon tonemapping than TVs are. But the flipside to this the larger screens of front projection home cinema systems allow viewers to see more of the detail found in 4K/UHD content while sitting at a comfortable distance.

While the discrepancy in highlight rendition between high dynamic range TVs and projectors is quite large, because proper home theater-style projection takes place in a completely light-controlled environment, a good HDR 4K projector operating in a completely black room can offer the "pop" you see with HDR TVs. Sure, the projector has to rely on tone mapping to a greater extent than a TV does, but the rich DCI/P3 color and deep blacks that state-of-the-art HDR projectors provide help make up for that.

I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer to this question, but it's still worth asking: What's the ultimate way to watch a 4K HDR movie at home? Projection or TV?

BenjaminKing 10-20-2017 08:31 AM

I voted Projection, because even though we can't support it in our current house, the size, combined with the forced darkening of the room always made for a "special" engagement, where our 65" UHD HDR TV looks amazing, but is "just" a TV. I miss our projector setup, and I'm consistently looking for ways to get back into it.

bukiwhitey 10-20-2017 08:48 AM

I am lucky enough to have a Sony 940E 75" tv and a Epson 5040UB displayed on 155" screen.

There is no comparison!!!!! The impact and engagement of the projector is completely on a different level than watching the tv.

daWill 10-20-2017 09:28 AM

Size absolutely matters. Largest economical tv's are in the 75-85" range. You would see to sit like 5-7ft from it to get the same relative size of a good projection setup. However you still wouldn't get the same impact of a bigger screen. I've drug my chair right up within 6-7' of my 85" 4k tv to play video games or watch a movie when my projector was unavailable. It still isn't the same as my 135" setup @ 13'.

jpolachak 10-20-2017 09:34 AM

I am still using a super old Epson 8350. My dad came over and we watched grand tour on amazon at 110" display only. He said man that picture is great. I had an Samsung KS8000 that was ok but I still love projection.

MassiveG 10-20-2017 09:46 AM

I had an Epson 5040ub faux 4k projector and a 120" screen, never did I think I'd switch to a TV. I was very satisfied with the projector and I always suggested projectors over TVs if my friends had control over light in a room.

But out of curiosity, I bought an LG C7 65" and my girlfriend and I were BLOWN AWAY at the outstanding picture quality!! I was kinda underwhelmed by 4K/HDR on my OPPO 203 with the 5040ub and I sorta dismissed UHD as a non-revolutionary format, but once I rewatched my UHDs on the LG C7 it was like I'd never truly watched them in 4k HDR before.

Since it's just my girlfriend and me with a dedicated home theater where we can control speaker positioning and viewing distance, we don't miss the 120" screen one bit. As soon as I saw the picture quality of the C7 I sold my 5040ub. I'm honestly surprised that some people say that projectors are a superior way to view 4k HDR.

Which is NOT to say I don't think projectors are great! If I had more seating or multiple rows of seating or a greater viewing distance projectors are the superior choice no doubt about it. But if you have control over seating distance...as for PQ I can't see how a projector is objectively superior.

Daniel Chaves 10-20-2017 09:47 AM

I voted projection because size tends to overcome any other complaint lol... but no I had a side question that I have been curious about, so a side from supply and demand causing the cost of a projector to be higher as not nearly as many units are made as TVs, what is another factor of the higher cost? is it primarily the lens that is the more expensive part in a Projector because it feels like a projector would be cheaper to build than some of these TVs?

Friendly Fire 10-20-2017 10:08 AM

Any image under 100" diagonal is just TV. Well above 100" becomes THEATER which is the whole point of a theater room.

I have several friends who blew thousands on fixed screens of 92" which was the recommendation at the time. Total waste.

Bigger is better.

TuteTibiImperes 10-20-2017 10:37 AM

I do 99% of my viewing in a dark room, so a projector could make sense. I also like the idea of using an AT screen so that I could install larger speakers than I can around my TV.

The problem with front projection is that it’s so much more expensive. You’re looking, what, $10K minimum for a true 4K (not pixel shifted), HDR, WCG projector? Plus then you have the cost of the screen, the cost of hiring someone to mount and align the screen and projector, and the cost of having to run much longer cables since the projector will probably not be right next to your rack.

imagic 10-20-2017 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes (Post 54987770)
I do 99% of my viewing in a dark room, so a projector could make sense. I also like the idea of using an AT screen so that I could install larger speakers than I can around my TV.

The problem with front projection is that it’s so much more expensive. You’re looking, what, $10K minimum for a true 4K (not pixel shifted), HDR, WCG projector? Plus then you have the cost of the screen, the cost of hiring someone to mount and align the screen and projector, and the cost of having to run much longer cables since the projector will probably not be right next to your rack.

$5K for the Sony VPL-VW285ES, fwiw.

BrolicBeast 10-20-2017 11:08 AM

I voted projection. When taking in the image as a whole, HDR has made great strides in projectors as a whole over the last couple of years.


Check out this video to view top-notch HDR in action on a projector. I'm using the first release of Lumagen Radiance Pro's HDR Intensity Mapping feature to achieve this great result. It's become even better in recent months, as firmware updates have been rolled out. Projection offers the best overall experience, but it also, in my opinion, offers the best HDR experience, although a flat panel might offer the brightest readings on a light meter.



Mashie Saldana 10-20-2017 11:16 AM

I didn't see a Sony CLEDIS option so voted TV.

304290 10-20-2017 11:35 AM

I have a Samsung 65in ultra hd, a Samsung 55 ultra hd and an older tech Sony hw55es which is only a 1080p projector. I still voted for the 4K projector even though mine is limited to 1080p. Don’t get me wrong, I love both of my Sammy’s. We do get wow moments when watching hdr ultra hd Blu-ray’s on the 65in one. But when it comes to preference, I’ll take my projector setup easily. I’ll put it like this. I would still probably go to the movies if I didn’t have my projector. I don’t even consider it now. Watching movies and tv on my theater room is just a completely different experience. So even if I had an 8k or 16k tv, I would still take a high end 1080p projector over it. And it’s not just the size thing either. Even at 1080p my projector reveals detail that my ultra hd tv can only dream of. Of course that’s unless I’m standing right in front of it lol. So I can only imagine how much better it would get once I decided that I finally need to upgrade to a 4K “equivalent” of my hw55es. Oh and one last thing. I change TVs about every 2-3 years. I’ve had my Sony even before the days of 4K and haven’t upgraded yet and only changed my bulb once(came with two out of the box).

BruceJK 10-20-2017 11:59 AM

I have both an LG E7 65 inch OLED in the living room and a JVC X750 projector with a 110 inch diagonal 2.35 aspect ratio screen in my home theatre. I find that for most blockbuster movies the screen size outweighs the projectors HDR limitations so my vote is in favour of the projection setup. On the other hand most of the Netflix HDR shows such as the Marvel series really exploit the HDR format and look better on the LG OLED. The OLED is also very usable in a bright room whereas the JVC needs a pitch black batcave to perform at its best.

They are both superb and I wouldn't want to give up either one. Now if we ever see affordable OLED's above 77 inches....

klimo 10-20-2017 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes (Post 54987770)
I do 99% of my viewing in a dark room, so a projector could make sense. I also like the idea of using an AT screen so that I could install larger speakers than I can around my TV.

The problem with front projection is that it’s so much more expensive. You’re looking, what, $10K minimum for a true 4K (not pixel shifted), HDR, WCG projector? Plus then you have the cost of the screen, the cost of hiring someone to mount and align the screen and projector, and the cost of having to run much longer cables since the projector will probably not be right next to your rack.

I think anyone would be a fool to write off faux k. The JVCs really deliver an amazing picture dollar for dollar against the true 4k options.

josephandrews222 10-20-2017 12:22 PM

Size Matters
 
...a lot, when it comes to TV and movie viewing.

As long as there's at least some control over lighting (and the necessary space), the combination of a decent 1080p projector and a mid-range screen (120" or so) is, in my view, a far superior solution to the problem of how to set up a media room for a family of four (compared to a 75" flatscreen).

Ten or so years ago, my wife was a doubter (as far as front projectors are concerned).

No longer.

canillo 10-20-2017 12:40 PM

I voted TV because of the question that was asked. Ive seen the very best projectors on the market at any price point and they just cant touch the colors and brightness of an OLED HDR TV. Its just not possible at this date. However if the question was what is the best way to achieve immersive cinematic experience at home, the answer is projector. You see... it all depends on what the viewer is seeking for. No TV will ever create the cinematic experience a projector does. a TV is just a TV... I dont think any Tv makes you feel like you left your house to become part of the film, on the other side, a 100"+ screen with a projector in a light controlled room will actually make you forget you are at home and transport you to the theater, there just something about projectors that makes tv not as fun,regardless of how good the TV looks. I dont think the question is fair, you dont have to think too much, a 4k HDR OLED tv will give you the best color, brightness and black that no projector can produce, but a good projector on a dedicated room will give you the ultimate cinematic experience. Everytime a friend comes over to my house and enter my theater room I usually have the drop down screen up.... with a 65" 4k hdr on the wall, and they all love it , but when I drop the 120" in front of it and run the projector they just drool. The color advantage of the TV becomes irrelevant, and now they just want to sit and never leave the room.

Wryker 10-20-2017 01:22 PM

There should be a 3rd option: "It Depends".

It depends on where you will sit when watching 4K.

With 4K you must sit closer to the TV than you do a 1080p set in order to notice the 4K. I've yet to see any house where they sit close enough to see any 4K benefit let alone, in most cases, 1080p!

If you have a dedicated theater room and save up your pennies - projection is the way. I'm still 1080p in my theater room. I don't have the pennies to invest in a 4K projector yet and, at this time, don't feel I need to.

Leporello 10-20-2017 01:22 PM

I vote projection. Not only can I have a large screen, I don't have to live with a beast: just roll it up.

dr_gallup 10-20-2017 01:34 PM

I voted projection because for home cinema, that big display in a light controlled room can't be beat. However, that's not what I watch. I watch far more TV (sports, news, comedy, etc.) than just movies and usually I'm also eating dinner or drinking wine, maybe checking emails or reading the paper during slow parts. I have lights on. I watch a TV.

EricU 10-20-2017 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daWill (Post 54987276)
Size absolutely matters...It still isn't the same as my 135" setup @ 13'.


I agree!! I am running a five year old or so JVC X30 (1080) on a 2.35:1 135 inch screen and am constantly impressed by the experience.


Cant wait (in a few more years!) for the 4k projectors to come down in price. I also want to upgrade (ouch) my Marantz SR7009 to a newer one with Atmos.

tanman 10-20-2017 01:40 PM

I have a big 100" DLP projector. and we watch everything on it. But I voted for the HDR TVs from the price point and size/distance issues. HDR TVs still deliver best bang for the buck, at present compared to projection!

PoorSignal 10-20-2017 01:44 PM

Had watched on plasma TVs for many years. The current TVs have too much processing for me.. dynamic backlight, smoothing etc.
I try to turn some of them off, I would watch TV shows on it but I would usually refuse to watch a movie on it.

I prefer DLP projection, with blu ray as source material is most film-like with natural colors, to me anyway.. and mine is only 1080P.

I am giving a nod to blu ray because so far I had poor results streaming movies from Amazon. They look soft on 120" screen.

Most people don't forget there is 3 annoying things about projection
1) ambient light
2) heat
3) noise

Relatively easily addressed with dedication, but it is not like a TV where it is ready to go out of the box. (Although glares on TV screens are pretty bad). Homes are getting smaller with open floor plans, so hiding/hushing projector and controlling ambient light is also getting more difficult.

audiofan1 10-20-2017 01:44 PM

I voted TV. My 75" Sony 940e at 10ft ticks my boxes and then some,for me brightness,contrast , excellent color reproduction from wcg mattersmore along with great blacks .Over a 1000 nits is bliss and seeing content is mastered at 1000 to 4000 nits and with Dolby vision looming with dynamic meta data,its a beautiful trifecta. Size does matter of course (my local Dolby theater is killer)but even the largest cinema screens leave me wanting for better PQ which i'm currently getting at home:cool:

sgranger45 10-20-2017 01:47 PM

I also have the Epson 5040UBE with a 120" screen. I was looking at 75" and above TV's and a salesman at a store said, "assuming you have 55" or bigger TV's in parts of your house, is it really going to be a big deal to go downstairs and watch a movie or "the big game" on a 75" TV?

He was so right! I know the 4K viewing is Faux 4K but it really doesn't matter! Everyone is blown away by the size and clarity. A few buddies have 75" TV's in their man caves but where are they on Saturday and Sunday? My house watching football!

Last week I bought Blade Runner Final Cut in UHD and watched it with my wife in preparation for going to see Blade Runner 2049 (she had never seen the original - me? like 15 times!) It was "good to very good" from a picture standpoint. It's a really dark movie (any many ways but I mean "dark video") and the UHD didn't impress as I had hoped.

Then we went to see the new one. We are lucky enough in North Atlanta to be 2 miles from a Dolby Cinema theatre with their $2 million laser projectors and 128 channel sound system. The new Blade Runner was absolutely amazing! I can't wait to see it at home to compare.

But I agree with the former comment that anything under 100" fails the Home Theatre standard (apologies to those that are city dwellers living in apartments and townhouses.)

film113 10-20-2017 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagic (Post 54987948)
Quote:

Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes (Post 54987770)
I do 99% of my viewing in a dark room, so a projector could make sense. I also like the idea of using an AT screen so that I could install larger speakers than I can around my TV.

The problem with front projection is that it?s so much more expensive. You?re looking, what, $10K minimum for a true 4K (not pixel shifted), HDR, WCG projector? Plus then you have the cost of the screen, the cost of hiring someone to mount and align the screen and projector, and the cost of having to run much longer cables since the projector will probably not be right next to your rack.

$5K for the Sony VPL-VW285ES, fwiw.

Yep, and probably less than that from some retailers. Basically the same price as a 65" OLED. Plus it has 3D which 2018 panels do not. (A very important feature which is a main reason PJ sales have grown this year.) A truly complete home theater experience which you don't get with today's panels. I'm not a big fan of altering movies from what the filmmakers intended, anymore than I like colorizing B&W films or cropping widescreen movies so I rarely use HDR.
Obviously, my vote is firmly with projectors.

gfrancis0 10-20-2017 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wryker (Post 54988754)
There should be a 3rd option: "It Depends".

It depends on where you will sit when watching 4K.

With 4K you must sit closer to the TV than you do a 1080p set in order to notice the 4K. I've yet to see any house where they sit close enough to see any 4K benefit let alone, in most cases, 1080p!

If you have a dedicated theater room and save up your pennies - projection is the way. I'm still 1080p in my theater room. I don't have the pennies to invest in a 4K projector yet and, at this time, don't feel I need to.

100% agree, I voted projector since I had to pick just one. Like a lot of things, depends on context. Size of the room? How many people are watching? What kind of material is the program? And so on.
One side note, full 7.2.4 sound with proper standalone speakers will really crowd almost any room that is properly served by a reasonably priced TV, so that probably means the projector setup will be in a larger room with more square footage to make the speakers not so "in your face" and therefore will sound better as well.

jas wats 10-20-2017 02:35 PM

I am consistently blown away by my epson 3700 projecting 120 inches from 11 feet away. Only 1080p and no HDR, but better than any theater I used to visit. 7.2.4 doesn't hurt either.

Al Leong 10-20-2017 02:36 PM

I voted TV. I've recently discovered the Technicolor picture setting for the 65W7 and in my opinion, a projector is not capable of providing the deep color and black low level detail performance of 4K HDR as OLED.

I like projector for the large body image formatting and the immersive experience matched with a big sound that I feel translate using SDR content.

HDR presentations are best viewed with a display that can accurately translate the nuances of dark-to-light dynamic range from 0% black up to 100% white.

JohnAV 10-20-2017 02:43 PM

I see the size matters is most of this discussion, however there is no way to watch Dolby Vision on a projector based system at home. So if you strictly asking what is the ultimate way to watch a 4K HDR10 movie at home you got your answer. :) The term HDR is a bit too general.


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