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post #11671 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
Hi!
Have used iRule since 2012, and have not synced the Samsung 7" pad II to the builder for years. But a few days ago I logged into the builder to make a small change, but I`m not able to sync the handset. I get a "Authentication failed" message. How do you log into the builder from the app? Google+ method is down, as far as I know, and the legacy Google login stopped working years ago?

iRule has worked ok for me for years, except I usually lose contact with one or more gateways during a movie. I usually have to restart the app to get everything "green" again. It was a lot of work setting everything up in iRule, so I`m a bit hesitant to migrate to something else, though I know that the day is coming.
FYI, it works for me and I have a similar setup.

I'm still running iRule on a Samsung Galaxy II tablet (11"). Ancient, but it (barely) manages the scripts that I run in my HT room and I've been too lazy to port it to some other device. I last synced the gateway a few days ago. When I login to the Builder app, I use the Google auth process.

Perhaps try deleting, rebooting, and reinstalling the iRule app on the tablet. You might also need to sign out of Google on the tablet and sign in again first. Or perhaps a factory reset on the tablet and then reconfigure it if that is an option for you.

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post #11672 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
I`m not able to sync the handset. I get a "Authentication failed" message. How do you log into the builder from the app? Google+ method is down, as far as I know, and the legacy Google login stopped working years ago?
I just tested legacy login and fortunately it works fine here.

You don't log in to the builder from the app -- you log in from a computer and "build" the handset. The app just logs into the resulting data base.

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post #11673 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
FYI, it works for me and I have a similar setup.

I'm still running iRule on a Samsung Galaxy II tablet (11"). Ancient, but it (barely) manages the scripts that I run in my HT room and I've been too lazy to port it to some other device. I last synced the gateway a few days ago. When I login to the Builder app, I use the Google auth process.

Perhaps try deleting, rebooting, and reinstalling the iRule app on the tablet. You might also need to sign out of Google on the tablet and sign in again first. Or perhaps a factory reset on the tablet and then reconfigure it if that is an option for you.
Thanks! I didn`t want to mess too much with the pad, in case I really coudn`t sync again. My remote would be gone forever.. I feel a little more confident now that it will be possible to resync again, If I update, reinstall the app etc.. Did you have to disable Google two step verification, or anything else?
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post #11674 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
I just tested legacy login and fortunately it works fine here.

You don't log in to the builder from the app -- you log in from a computer and "build" the handset. The app just logs into the resulting data base.
Yes, the app needs to log in to the iRule Builder to resync the handset with your "design". The app has used different login methods, and the last time I logged in the method was the Google+ API, called OAuth I think. You were redirected to a web-
page where you input your credentials. Maybe just once. Now the page shows an error 403 Disallowed_useragent. Since I also read that the legacy Google login was terminated several years ago, I was afraid that I could no longer sync the handset. If I use the "legacy login" I get the "failed authentication" error. I have not changed the login details for years. If you press "Sync" you see these credentials only briefly before the syncing starts. I can use the same credentials to log into iRule builder from a web-browser, so I know that the credentials are correct. I should probably delete and reinstall the app.
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post #11675 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
Hi!
Have used iRule since 2012, and have not synced the Samsung 7" pad II to the builder for years. But a few days ago I logged into the builder to make a small change, but I`m not able to sync the handset. I get a "Authentication failed" message. How do you log into the builder from the app? Google+ method is down, as far as I know, and the legacy Google login stopped working years ago?

iRule has worked ok for me for years, except I usually lose contact with one or more gateways during a movie. I usually have to restart the app to get everything "green" again. It was a lot of work setting everything up in iRule, so I`m a bit hesitant to migrate to something else, though I know that the day is coming.
I feel a bit ignorant trying to help you out with this atm, as I don't have my tablet handy. But.... I'll say first, that is correct the Google+ method no longer functions. What works for me on the Builder (PC) side is the current Google authentication process. On the tablet side of the equation, it's been so long since I installed the iRule app that I don't recall how it authenticates with a particular user, but I'm pretty sure it's the same method as the Builder app. I don't know if the legacy method works or not (and what was that anyway? email/pw??)

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post #11676 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
I should probably delete and reinstall the app.
I suspect that solution will work.

It sounds like the app thinks it's already authenticated, so it is not restarting that process, but as you've discovered the old auth process is broken. If all that is correct, it would indicate the iRule app was never updated after the method you originally used for authentication was sunset. Judging by how Kramer has treated iRule since they acquired it, this would not surprise me a bit.

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post #11677 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 12:44 PM
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Thanks!
I don`t know how the new Google authentication method works, but there is a change. At least there is the two factor verification.

My iRule version is 4.2.2 2761. There have been several releases since this, but I`m not sure if the newest version would run on my pad. It is rooted, and runs Cyanogenmod. I did this to get rid of bloatware, to get some more free memory in the hope that iRule would run better. It did get a little better.
I`ll try the newest first, and if necessary go one version back at a time..

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post #11678 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
Yes, the app needs to log in to the iRule Builder to resync the handset with your "design".
My understanding of the process is that the Builder builds a database. iRule/OnControls calls both the design and the physical iPad "handsets" so there is often confusion. When you log in to the Builder you get the full design capability, drag-n-drop, Libraries, etc. When you log into the database to sync an iPad you are downloading the designed "handset" from the database server onto your physical "handset" and the Builder is not in play.

Quote:
The app has used different login methods, and the last time I logged in the method was the Google+ API, called OAuth I think. You were redirected to a web-page where you input your credentials. Maybe just once. Now the page shows an error 403 Disallowed_useragent. Since I also read that the legacy Google login was terminated several years ago, I was afraid that I could no longer sync the handset.
I have never used either of the Google log-in methods. I use the customer name and password that I entered in the Builder and it still works just fine. We use it several times a week around the city, adding features to customers' iPads as they request them.

Quote:
If I use the "legacy login" I get the "failed authentication" error. I have not changed the login details for years. If you press "Sync" you see these credentials only briefly before the syncing starts. I can use the same credentials to log into iRule builder from a web-browser, so I know that the credentials are correct. I should probably delete and reinstall the app.
That's always free to test.
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post #11679 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
Thanks!
I don`t know how the new Google authentication method works, but there is a change. At least there is the two factor verification.

My iRule version is 4.2.2 2761. There have been several releases since this, but I`m not sure if the newest version would run on my pad. It is rooted, and runs Cyanogenmod. I did this to get rid of bloatware, to get some more free memory in the hope that iRule would run better. It did get a little better.
I`ll try the newest first, and if necessary go one version back at a time..
From what I can tell, they have not updated the app in quite some time. It does not appear to be actively maintained (shocking, I know). I agree, the app is a resource hog.

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post #11680 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
My understanding of the process is that the Builder builds a database. iRule/OnControls calls both the design and the physical iPad "handsets" so there is often confusion. When you log in to the Builder you get the full design capability, drag-n-drop, Libraries, etc. When you log into the database to sync an iPad you are downloading the designed "handset" from the database server onto your physical "handset" and the Builder is not in play.


I have never used either of the Google log-in methods. I use the customer name and password that I entered in the Builder and it still works just fine. We use it several times a week around the city, adding features to customers' iPads as they request them.



That's always free to test.
Thanks! I won`t pretend knowing a lot about this, but you need a google account to log in to iRule builder? Back when I got the iRule license I signed up for a google account that I only have used for iRule. I use this email-address and password for logging in to iRule builder, and in the app for syncing.
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post #11681 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
Thanks! I won`t pretend knowing a lot about this, but you need a google account to log in to iRule builder? Back when I got the iRule license I signed up for a google account that I only have used for iRule. I use this email-address and password for logging in to iRule builder, and in the app for syncing.
No, as a custom installer I use my own name and pw to log in to the builder at [https://builder.oncontrols.com/manager.html]. I understand that there is a different address for individual users, something like [https://builder.iruleathome.com/iRule.html]. That is probably the one that wants Google authorization.

To sync the individual handsets you cannot use the "manager" account but use instead the name and pw you created for your handset. I had not heard that Google+ access had ended -- the relevant support page still recommends it.

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post #11682 of 11691 Old 01-03-2020, 02:10 PM
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Google+ access had ended -- the relevant support page still recommends it.
Google+ was retired by Google on April 2, 2019.

Does OnControls (i.e. Kramer) ever update their websites, period? They're not exactly strong on customer service when it comes to consumers. I know I'm jaded on that topic, but I'm an iRule customer. Need I say more?

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post #11683 of 11691 Old 01-05-2020, 08:41 AM
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Does OnControls (i.e. Kramer) ever update their websites, period? They're not exactly strong on customer service when it comes to consumers. I know I'm jaded on that topic, but I'm an iRule customer. Need I say more?
Kramer bought iRule mostly for its intellectual property. Kramer likes to sell BIG systems for multi-room environments like schools -- so big that the hub is an expensive dedicated computer. They are not really interested in small home installations that spend just a couple of thousand dollars at a time.

The best we can hope for in that direction is that enough people buy licenses to pay the server bills.

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Success! Installed the latest iRule on a different pad, and it synced with no problem. There is no longer the Google+ login option. Also had success with latest iRule and the other 7" Tab II that I used before, but had to remove the custom Cyanogenmod ROM first, and reflash the original Samsung firmware.
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post #11685 of 11691 Old 01-05-2020, 10:50 AM
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Now I got some inspiration to debug my "red" gateway problem, as mentioned a few posts above. During eg. a movie I often get one or more red gateways. It can be different types of gateways. I have a JVC X30 projector that needs a "keep alive" signal to keep the network connection up. I send this signal before sending commands to the projector, but I`m not sure I do it everywhere neccessary. I`ve tried to debug my network, without discovering anything suspicious. Any suggestions what to look for is appreciated..
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post #11686 of 11691 Old 01-05-2020, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
Kramer bought iRule mostly for its intellectual property. Kramer likes to sell BIG systems for multi-room environments like schools -- so big that the hub is an expensive dedicated computer. They are not really interested in small home installations that spend just a couple of thousand dollars at a time.

The best we can hope for in that direction is that enough people buy licenses to pay the server bills.
Their hubs for small application like home theaters utilizing Kramer Control is MUCH smaller than that. . They continue to grow in all markets including residential. However, this is likely their smallest market at this time (especially in the US)....

https://www.kramerav.com/us/product/sl-240c
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post #11687 of 11691 Old 01-05-2020, 01:26 PM
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Their hubs for small application like home theaters utilizing Kramer Control is MUCH smaller than that. . They continue to grow in all markets including residential. However, this is likely their smallest market at this time (especially in the US)....

https://www.kramerav.com/us/product/sl-240c
Yes, and it lists for $780.

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post #11688 of 11691 Old 01-05-2020, 01:34 PM
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Yes, and it lists for $780.
But it’s less than a couple thousand dollars per your comment. And that is the list price. Have you contacted them or a dealer to discuss? You suggest they are not really interested in small home applications, etc. Just wondered where you received that info. SJ

Edit: Realized you are probably talking about DIY folks which used iRule. Never mind....

Last edited by SJHT; 01-05-2020 at 01:58 PM.
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post #11689 of 11691 Old 01-05-2020, 04:46 PM
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But it’s less than a couple thousand dollars per your comment. And that is the list price. Have you contacted them or a dealer to discuss? You suggest they are not really interested in small home applications, etc. Just wondered where you received that info. SJ

Edit: Realized you are probably talking about DIY folks which used iRule. Never mind....
$785 is the discounted price -- used to be $975. And that's just too much for those of use who need only the IR emitter drivers, like a $95 iTach. And -- my "couple of thousand" included the support gear that surrounds the hub.

One of our biggest installations was in a huge penthouse apartment. It has 6 TVs, 2 cable boxes, 6 iPads, 3 multi-zone AVRs, a Roku, and a Blu-ray player; and enough HDMI matrix switches that any TV can watch either of the cable boxes, the Roku, or the Blu-ray. Global Cache iTaches worked just fine and no "smart hubs" were needed. Even the HDMI switches are seamlessly controlled by the On Control app on the iPads.

I formed my impression of what Kramer really prefers to do from their case studies like

https://www.kramerav.com/us/solutions/classroom_ed
https://www.kramerav.com/us/solutions/control_room
https://www.kramerav.com/us/solution..._and_corporate

and from browsing their hardware catalogs at https://www.kramerav.com/us/products.

I'm not disagreeing with their choice to go the high-priced route -- certainly there is more money in that market than there is in residential living rooms. I just wish they had not killed iRule in the process.

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post #11690 of 11691 Old 01-10-2020, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
Now I got some inspiration to debug my "red" gateway problem, as mentioned a few posts above. During eg. a movie I often get one or more red gateways. It can be different types of gateways. I have a JVC X30 projector that needs a "keep alive" signal to keep the network connection up. I send this signal before sending commands to the projector, but I`m not sure I do it everywhere neccessary. I`ve tried to debug my network, without discovering anything suspicious. Any suggestions what to look for is appreciated..
Seems that putting all PJREQ for maintaining the network connection with the JVC X30 in Entrances w/repeat took care of the problem with "red" gateways. I used to send PJREQ just before needing to communicate with the projector, eg. with PJREQ as part of macros when pressing buttons.
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post #11691 of 11691 Old 01-18-2020, 02:44 PM
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Nest Stat issues

Anyone using a NEST Thermostat in your iRule setup; having any issues? My NEST connection dropped off about a week ago, i believe it was after i updated the NEST app; current version is 5.42.0. At the time I was using iOS 9, iRule 4.7.3 when it happened, Updated to iOS13, no luck

Curious on what the census is
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