Calling all DemoPad Users - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 18Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #541 of 575 Old 05-14-2019, 03:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,086
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked: 923
Moving From Irule

Any advice for moving on from IRULE. I have an extensive Irule system (see my HT video below) but I need to get on a supported product.

I am hard DIY to the point of fabricating my own hardware if needed. I need to have the same ability I had in Irule to issue IP and RS232 commands as well as full feedback.

What version of Demopad do I need?

How do I get it? Download? Need to go through a dealer?

Any other advice?

TIA
Glimmie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #542 of 575 Old 05-14-2019, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Any advice for moving on from IRULE. I have an extensive Irule system (see my HT video below) but I need to get on a supported product.

I am hard DIY to the point of fabricating my own hardware if needed. I need to have the same ability I had in Irule to issue IP and RS232 commands as well as full feedback.

What version of Demopad do I need?

How do I get it? Download? Need to go through a dealer?

Any other advice?

TIA

This a DYI product. Sign up for an account on there website. I recommend a payed Pro Account to help support them as well as get a few more features. Then DL the app from the app store, pay the one time fee for the app. DL the designed from there website and start building. You can find videos on YouTube on getting started with the builder. I have found DemiPad to be very stable and works better at multitasking then iRule.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #543 of 575 Old 05-14-2019, 04:39 PM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Any advice for moving on from IRULE. I have an extensive Irule system (see my HT video below) but I need to get on a supported product.

I am hard DIY to the point of fabricating my own hardware if needed. I need to have the same ability I had in Irule to issue IP and RS232 commands as well as full feedback.

What version of Demopad do I need?

How do I get it? Download? Need to go through a dealer?

Any other advice?

TIA
As an early adopter of iRule and recent convert to DemoPad I can share my experience, the good, bad and ugly. DemoPad is a bit of an enigma compared to iRule, but everything you can do in iRule you can replicate in DemoPad, and even more. I have a fairly extensive home entertainment system with multi-zones, multi-displays and home automation features including lighting and climate control. I can control all of this via DemoPad. Where I found DemoPad lacking significantly compared to iRule is in the device IP/IR command libraries and user base. This forum has some very knowledgeable people and seems reasonably active, but iRule had a much large user community and installed base from which to draw. I found the DemoPad support team to be very responsive when I had question, but limited in what they can help with. I am a retired engineer, researcher and R&D manager with over 40yrs experience so I have some experience coding and plenty of time to pursue my hobbies and tinker, of which AV is one. It took me about 2.5 months of long days and nights to fully convert my iRule to DemoPad and I was able to put the finishing touches with help from this forum. A lot of Googling and trial and error, but coming from iRule at least the IP commands are generally transferable, but not completely 1:1. My system consists of multiple Denon AVR/Processors, Panasonic Plasma Displays, Epson Projector, multiple HTPC's and media servers, Insteon Lighting and Climate Control via an ISY994 hub, and multiple zone sound and home security. I now have full 2-way feedback for the entire system on multiple iPads running DemoPad. I am running the basic DemoPad app that is a one time cost of about $40.00US and I paid an addition $5-10 for the graphics pack, all useable on multiple iPads. Really very reasonable and it does everything I need at this point. Outside of the lighting and climate control which runs through the ISY994 Hub/Processor, everything is controlled directly from DemoPad via IP commands. For lighting and Climate DemoPad interacts with ISY994 via IP commands, otherwise I am not using any processor (ie Centro). I find DemoPad to be very smooth and responsive, and with optimization a notch above iRule but overall very comparable.

I highly recommend DemoPad if you have the time to invest to get a first class solution. If you don't have time invest in such an undertaking at this point, I'd suggest you look at SimpleControl. Very nice product, easy to setup and low cost subscription ($20-30/yr typically.
Manni01 likes this.
jsiemon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #544 of 575 Old 05-14-2019, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsiemon View Post
As an early adopter of iRule and recent convert to DemoPad I can share my experience, the good, bad and ugly. DemoPad is a bit of an enigma compared to iRule, but everything you can do in iRule you can replicate in DemoPad, and even more. I have a fairly extensive home entertainment system with multi-zones, multi-displays and home automation features including lighting and climate control. I can control all of this via DemoPad. Where I found DemoPad lacking significantly compared to iRule is in the device IP/IR command libraries and user base. This forum has some very knowledgeable people and seems reasonably active, but iRule had a much large user community and installed base from which to draw. I found the DemoPad support team to be very responsive when I had question, but limited in what they can help with. I am a retired engineer, researcher and R&D manager with over 40yrs experience so I have some experience coding and plenty of time to pursue my hobbies and tinker, of which AV is one. It took me about 2.5 months of long days and nights to fully convert my iRule to DemoPad and I was able to put the finishing touches with help from this forum. A lot of Googling and trial and error, but coming from iRule at least the IP commands are generally transferable, but not completely 1:1. My system consists of multiple Denon AVR/Processors, Panasonic Plasma Displays, Epson Projector, multiple HTPC's and media servers, Insteon Lighting and Climate Control via an ISY994 hub, and multiple zone sound and home security. I now have full 2-way feedback for the entire system on multiple iPads running DemoPad. I am running the basic DemoPad app that is a one time cost of about $40.00US and I paid an addition $5-10 for the graphics pack, all useable on multiple iPads. Really very reasonable and it does everything I need at this point. Outside of the lighting and climate control which runs through the ISY994 Hub/Processor, everything is controlled directly from DemoPad via IP commands. For lighting and Climate DemoPad interacts with ISY994 via IP commands, otherwise I am not using any processor (ie Centro). I find DemoPad to be very smooth and responsive, and with optimization a notch above iRule but overall very comparable.

I highly recommend DemoPad if you have the time to invest to get a first class solution. If you don't have time invest in such an undertaking at this point, I'd suggest you look at SimpleControl. Very nice product, easy to setup and low cost subscription ($20-30/yr typically.

Question, are you a pro or non pro. I am a pro and I have access to a large IR data base in the builder. I am wondering if that's a pro thing or is it some thing your missing? I do agree not much as far as IP that took some time to figure out. Good thing was I was able to pull a lot of IP from iRule.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #545 of 575 Old 05-14-2019, 07:52 PM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg7321 View Post
Question, are you a pro or non pro. I am a pro and I have access to a large IR data base in the builder. I am wondering if that's a pro thing or is it some thing your missing? I do agree not much as far as IP that took some time to figure out. Good thing was I was able to pull a lot of IP from iRule.
I am NOT running the Pro Version, but I do have access to the IR database. I just don't think (opinion) it is that extensive compared to iRule and the IP database is very sparse. Based on the documentation I don't think the command database is a point of differentiation between Standard and Pro versions. I had contacted the DemoPad support team for help with IP commands for my Panny Plasmas and while they tried to help me, they admitted they had no command database they could consult (in my case or in general I don't know). I think the user community for iRule had a large part in populating both the IR and IP databases. In browsing the DemoPad forum I just don't see that same level of involvement for DemoPad but that could change with more iRule converts.

Last edited by jsiemon; 05-14-2019 at 07:55 PM.
jsiemon is offline  
post #546 of 575 Old 05-14-2019, 10:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Peter M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,004
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsiemon View Post
Once again thank you Peter M for taking time to respond. Now I'm going to be a real NOOB. My original intent was to do exactly as you have described but I can't figure out how to create and call a Macro with DemoPAD Designer. I don't have the Pro version and I don't have a Centro Processor. In reading the Docs it seemed that I needed both to get the Macro Button to show in the DemoPAD Designer tool bar. As a result I resorted to just using a series of repeating individual commands with a consequence of a flashing button every 10 secs. I tried to implement your Macro as individual commands hoping that I missed something, but I have the same result as with my approach( If I set the repeat frequency too short Ithe button doesn't light at all or if I set the Panny Status flag to 10 sec, then the button flashes every 10 sec. ) Any guidance, if it is even possible, on how to create a Macro without a processor or Pro software would be appreciated. Otherwise I'll have to live with what I have for now, and move forward to implement the same strategy on the HTPC.

John
Hi John,

You don't need any of that fancy stuff to do macros, it's all done with custom number actions. Create a Number called Macro. In the Custom Number Actions set ranges of 1-1, 2-2 etc for each macro you want to run. Enter the string of commands against the number range and there's your macro. Then anywhere in the build that you want to run a macro you simply set the number Macro = the macro number you want to run.

See here - Custom Number Actions

Cheers,
Peter M is offline  
post #547 of 575 Old 05-15-2019, 06:18 AM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Hi John,

You don't need any of that fancy stuff to do macros, it's all done with custom number actions. Create a Number called Macro. In the Custom Number Actions set ranges of 1-1, 2-2 etc for each macro you want to run. Enter the string of commands against the number range and there's your macro. Then anywhere in the build that you want to run a macro you simply set the number Macro = the macro number you want to run.

See here - Custom Number Actions

Cheers,
Great insight Peter. I have used the custom numbers in my Demopad design, but never gave them a thought in this case. Once again I'm too deep into the weeds to see the big picture. Thanks for helping as this should do the trick. I have to say I'm really liking Demopad as I continue to gain experience and unleash its full potential. As much as I liked iRule, I won't miss it now that I have made the transition to DemoPad.


John
jsiemon is offline  
post #548 of 575 Old 05-15-2019, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Hi John,

You don't need any of that fancy stuff to do macros, it's all done with custom number actions. Create a Number called Macro. In the Custom Number Actions set ranges of 1-1, 2-2 etc for each macro you want to run. Enter the string of commands against the number range and there's your macro. Then anywhere in the build that you want to run a macro you simply set the number Macro = the macro number you want to run.

See here - Custom Number Actions

Cheers,

This is a nice way to do it, especially if you use the macro in more then one button through out your layout. Then if you ever need to modify if you know where it is and don't have to change each button.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #549 of 575 Old 05-15-2019, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Any advice for moving on from IRULE. I have an extensive Irule system (see my HT video below) but I need to get on a supported product.

I am hard DIY to the point of fabricating my own hardware if needed. I need to have the same ability I had in Irule to issue IP and RS232 commands as well as full feedback.

What version of Demopad do I need?

How do I get it? Download? Need to go through a dealer?

Any other advice?

TIA

The one thing DemoPad is missing is true "IF" Statements. Now you can still do this with "FLAGS" but not as nice as iRule. One things I like is you can do animations, for example I have a little animation running when ever KODI is playing some thing. You can have a lot of fun with DemoPad and get very creative. I can set an alarm clock in DemoPad for any time through out a day that can launch a macro. I use that every morning, LOL
mpg7321 is offline  
post #550 of 575 Old 05-15-2019, 11:24 AM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Hi John,

You don't need any of that fancy stuff to do macros, it's all done with custom number actions. Create a Number called Macro. In the Custom Number Actions set ranges of 1-1, 2-2 etc for each macro you want to run. Enter the string of commands against the number range and there's your macro. Then anywhere in the build that you want to run a macro you simply set the number Macro = the macro number you want to run.

See here - Custom Number Actions

Cheers,

What I'm finding is that the Macro works, but not as a startup action. I think it may be timing issue between getting the feedback and setting the flags. I tried different delays and repeat frequencies, but nothing I tried made any difference. If I use PannyResponse=OFF as the first command inside of the Macro or outside of the Macro as a startup action, then the button light never lights (ie the set condition is OFF). If I remove that command but retain the rest of the macro, then the button lights as expected regardless of how the Panny was turned on, but when I shut off the Panny using a different remote, of course the button stays lit as PannyResponse=OFF is never set. By using all of these commands as individual commands in startup actions and repeating at some arbitrary interval (1.5 sec) then everything works, except the button flashes periodically as PannyResponse=OFF is repeating. I have it set to 10 sec repeat interval. Nevertheless, all is not lost as I now know how to create and execute a macro. I'm sure this will be useful as I further embellish the layout. After all, it is never finished and the flashing button every 10 secs. when it is on isn't the end of the world. At least I know when it is on and off and it is seen across all of the iPad remotes in use.

Last edited by jsiemon; 05-15-2019 at 12:21 PM.
jsiemon is offline  
post #551 of 575 Old 05-15-2019, 09:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Peter M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,004
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 290
That's very odd. I hoped that this would be straight forward ! We never give up in the Demopad thread !!

You don't say what delays you'e tried, but if I was setting this up I'd probably go with 2 secs repeat on the macro call and in the macro -

0.0 PannyResponse = OFF
0.2 MuteQuery
1.0 PannyPwr = ON depends on PannyResponse = ON
1.0 PannyPwr = OFF depends on Pannyresponse = OFF

This should allow plenty of time for the Mute query to set PannyResponse = ON.

If this doesn't work then I suggest you post some screen shots so we can check your settings.

Cheers,
Peter M is offline  
post #552 of 575 Old 05-15-2019, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
That's very odd. I hoped that this would be straight forward ! We never give up in the Demopad thread !!

You don't say what delays you'e tried, but if I was setting this up I'd probably go with 2 secs repeat on the macro call and in the macro -

0.0 PannyResponse = OFF
0.2 MuteQuery
1.0 PannyPwr = ON depends on PannyResponse = ON
1.0 PannyPwr = OFF depends on Pannyresponse = OFF

This should allow plenty of time for the Mute query to set PannyResponse = ON.

If this doesn't work then I suggest you post some screen shots so we can check your settings.

Cheers,
I would set the MuteQuery to a label in the feedback. Display label and see how long it takes to update every time you change the mute status. If its still taking a long time to update then you still have issue with the command. This should all be done in the feedback not in page load except for the mute query. So not sure why you are playing around with delays? You would set up two feedback's, one set to match MUTE OFF and one to match to MUTE ON. Then set the status

Last edited by mpg7321; 05-15-2019 at 10:48 PM.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #553 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Hi John,

You don't need any of that fancy stuff to do macros, it's all done with custom number actions. Create a Number called Macro. In the Custom Number Actions set ranges of 1-1, 2-2 etc for each macro you want to run. Enter the string of commands against the number range and there's your macro. Then anywhere in the build that you want to run a macro you simply set the number Macro = the macro number you want to run.

See here - Custom Number Actions

Cheers,

I would add one thing to this, doing it this way can become an issue if you have a lot of Macros. Lets say you have 100 macros, you would have to remember what macro would fire when you set the number to 44 or 67, so on and so on. If you have a lot of Macros, I would recommend creating a folder called "Macros" then add a number and label it accordingly. Would be a lot easier to keep track of. Granted the trade off would be when you are setting a number in the action of a button, your drop down list could become long. Either method would work, all depends on how youy want to go about doing this.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #554 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 10:47 AM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
That's very odd. I hoped that this would be straight forward ! We never give up in the Demopad thread !!

You don't say what delays you'e tried, but if I was setting this up I'd probably go with 2 secs repeat on the macro call and in the macro -

0.0 PannyResponse = OFF
0.2 MuteQuery
1.0 PannyPwr = ON depends on PannyResponse = ON
1.0 PannyPwr = OFF depends on Pannyresponse = OFF

This should allow plenty of time for the Mute query to set PannyResponse = ON.

If this doesn't work then I suggest you post some screen shots so we can check your settings.

Cheers,

Well guys you goaded me to get back to the keyboard. I was just voicing my fatigue and frustration in the moment. After 40+ years in R&D it's not my nature to give-up and we never really cross the finish line in a project like this. I am just neglecting my other hobbies (classic cars) and with spring here in the North, it's time for me to get out and about.

With your and mpg7321 suggestions, I got it working. It is definitely a timing issue, and maybe the dreaded "Off-By-One-Bug" as well, but I need to experiment more to confirm if it is indeed a bug or just a timing artifact.

Here is my solution: I set the repeat frequency in the Page_Load Actions to 5 sec. for the macro call and I call the macro twice in succession(If I only call it once it won't work). I also used the delays Peter M suggested. I had tried similar delays in the past, but without the successive macro call. I found that I need both, but now it works great, no periodic flashing button. It does take a few sec. to get the button to light on or go off, but not an intolerable delay by any means.

The potential bug may turn turnout to just be timings also, but I have found in other Page_Load Actions, that I need to call the last command in the sequence twice to get it to respond which is I why tried the idea using the successive macro call. Strangely with the macro call it doesn't seem to matter where in the sequence it is called, however it must be called twice in succession to work and why I am not 100% sure it is bug or just timing. Now I do have quite a number (10-15)of device queries as startup actions on some pages and they do repeat(.5 -1.5 sec) so things could get overloaded, a buffer overrun etc, but nonetheless if I call the last command twice in sequence on these pages, the command executes. Further I removed a number of the Page_Load actions on this particular page but saw no benefit so I need to look into this a bit more when I have some time.

For now at least this problem is solved and I can go play with my cars.

Thanks again to both of you.

John

EDIT: As I was typing my response a couple of other thoughts occurred to me and I could not resist trying them out. Instead of calling the macro twice from Page_Load Actions, I instead added a 2nd QueryMute command in the macro and only called the macro once from the Page_Load actions. Sure enough that works, however I get intermittent button flashing. Not periodic but intermittent. I think the commands and responses get out of sync or overlapped and this is the result. I see this as well if I double call the macro from Page_Load Actions using too small of a repeat, hence my choice of 5 sec. ( and it still happens even with 5 sec but at such a long interval as to be unimportant). There seems to be high latency in the system, which may be related to the Panny but I'm not ruling out DemoPad just yet. I'll know better when I fully implement the same approach on the HTPC. If I see the same issues there then I would conclude it is a DemoPad issue, otherwise likely just related to the Panny.

EDIT2: Its the Panny and its latency that are causing the issues. No problem at all with the HTPC.

Last edited by jsiemon; 05-16-2019 at 02:47 PM.
jsiemon is offline  
post #555 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsiemon View Post
Well guys you goaded me to get back to the keyboard. I was just voicing my fatigue and frustration in the moment. After 40+ years in R&D it's not my nature to give-up and we never really cross the finish line in a project like this. I am just neglecting my other hobbies (classic cars) and with spring here in the North, it's time for me to get out and about.
OK enough with the whining. With your and mpg7321 suggestions, I got it working. It is definitely a timing issue, and maybe the dreaded "Off-By-One-Bug" as well, but I need to experiment more to confirm if it is indeed a bug or just a timing artifact.

Here is my solution: I set the repeat frequency in the Page_Load Actions to 5 sec. for the macro call and I call the macro twice in succession(If I only call it once it won't work). I also used the delays Peter M suggested. I had tried similar delays in the past, but without the successive macro call. I found that I need both, but now it works great, no periodic flashing button. It does take a few sec. to get the button to light on or go off, but not an intolerable delay by any means.

The potential bug may turn turnout to just be timings also, but I have found in other Page_Load Actions, that I need to call the last command in the sequence twice to get it to respond which is I why tried the idea using the macro call. Strangely with the macro call it doesn't seem to mater where in the sequence it is called, however it must be called twice to work in succession and why I am not 100% sure it is bug or just timing. Now I do have quite a number (10-15)of device queries as startup actions on some pages and they do repeat(.5 -1.5 sec) so things could get overloaded, a buffer overrun etc, but nonetheless if I call the last command twice in sequence on these pages, the command executes. Further I removed a number of the Page_Load actions on this particular page but saw no benefit so I need to look into this a bit more when I have some time.

For now at least this problem is solved and I can go play with my cars.

Thanks again to both of you.

John

EDIT: As I was typing my response a couple of other thoughts occurred to me and I could not resist trying them out. Instead of calling the macro twice from Page_Load Actions, I instead added a 2nd QueryMute command in the macro and only called the macro once from the Page_Load actions. Sure enough that works, however I get intermittent button flashing. Not periodic but intermittent. I think the commands and responses get out of sync or overlapped and this is the result. I see this as well if I double call the macro from Page_Load Actions using too small of a repeat, hence my choice of 5 sec. ( and it still happens even with 5 sec but at such a long interval as to be unimportant). There seems to be high latency in the system, which may be related to the Panny but I'm not ruling out DemoPad just yet. I'll know better when I fully implement the same approach on the HTPC. If I see the same issues there then I would conclude it is a DemoPad issue, otherwise likely just related to the Panny.

I'm sorry but your kinda going around this the wrong way, if I understand you correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong but you are trying to use feedback to turn on and off an indicator in your layout, correct? If that's so, then you should be sending the mute query command from the page load action on a repeated interval. The rest should be done in the feedback for the device. Not in a number macro. Should not have to worry about a delay, when doing this from feedback. Not sure why you are doing it this way.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #556 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 03:05 PM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg7321 View Post
I'm sorry but your kinda going around this the wrong way, if I understand you correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong but you are trying to use feedback to turn on and off an indicator in your layout, correct? If that's so, then you should be sending the mute query command from the page load action on a repeated interval. The rest should be done in the feedback for the device. Not in a number macro. Should not have to worry about a delay, when doing this from feedback. Not sure why you are doing it this way.
Yes that is correct. I don't have a PowerON command for the Panny or HTPC. I MUST use WOL. As we have multiple iPads and MutiZone throughout the house I want all iPads to display current status of all devices. I have no direct way of knowing whether these 2 device are on since there is no QueryPwr Command available for either, so as a kludge I am interrogating Mute which returns 0 or 1 as Feedback. If it returns EITHER a 0 or 1 then the device MUST be ON, otherwise it is "likely" OFF. So I am setting the default condition to PannyResponse=OFF, and setting PannyResponse to ON if I get EITHER 0 or 1 as MuteFeedback. If I do this inside of the feedback when the device is ON that's great, but setting the default condition inside of the feedback doesn't help when the device is OFF as the MuteFeedback is never triggered and the button stays lit. The PannyResponse=OFF must be set outside of the feedback for it to register. If I set it in the Page_Load Actions, which is what I started with, then the button flashes as the command repeats. The logic is tricky, but believe me I have tried all different work arounds and the Macro is the best way to go in this case and is now working fine on both Panny and especially the HTPC where there is low latency.

Thanks.
John

Last edited by jsiemon; 05-16-2019 at 03:37 PM.
jsiemon is offline  
post #557 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsiemon View Post
Yes that is correct. I don't have a PowerON command for the Panny or HTPC. I MUST use WOL. As we have multiple iPads and MutiZone throughout the house I want all iPads to display current status of all devices. I have no direct way of knowing whether these 2 device are on since there is no QueryPwr Command available for either, so as a kludge I am interrogating Mute which returns 0 or 1 as Feedback. If it returns either a 0 or 1 then the device must be ON, otherwise it is "likely" OFF. So I am setting the default condition to PannyResponse=OFF and to ON if I get EITHER 0 or 1 as MuteFeedback. If I do this inside of the feedback when the device is ON that's great, but setting the default condition inside of the feedback doesn't help when the device is OFF as the MuteFeedback is never triggered and the button stays lit The PannyResponse=OFF must be set outside of the feedback for it to register. If I set it in the Page_Load Actions which is what I started with, then the button flashes as the command repeats. The logic is tricky, but believe me I have tried all different work arounds and the Macro is the best way to go in this case and is now working fine on both Panny and especially the HTPC.

Thanks.
John

So what does the feedback if any show if the power is off? Still either way you would be better doing this in feedback. A better way of doing this is to use a voltage sensor that will know if the device is on or off. Global Cache used to make one. They are conected to the network and the device would be plugged in the sensors and then into thew wall outlet. It will sense the voltage increase or decrease. Also I would look into some thing like EventGhost running on a PC, that can broadcast to all your iPad's with one command. That way your not trying to ping devices from multiple iPad's.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #558 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 03:51 PM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg7321 View Post
So what does the feedback if any show if the power is off? Still either way you would be better doing this in feedback. A better way of doing this is to use a voltage sensor that will know if the device is on or off. Global Cache used to make one. They are conected to the network and the device would be plugged in the sensors and then into thew wall outlet. It will sense the voltage increase or decrease. Also I would look into some thing like EventGhost running on a PC, that can broadcast to all your iPad's with one command. That way your not trying to ping devices from multiple iPad's.
Unlike some devices like my Denon AVR's that respond even when in StandBy, there is no response in either case when the device is OFF so there is nothing to interrogate. I think Wemo and others make hardware that tell if the device is On/Off by measuring voltage/current draw, but then that is just one more item that needs drivers and a device setup, not to mention the potential for failure. I use MCE Controller for my HTPC. I have used EG in the past and it works great, but I've settled on MCEC and see no reason to change at this point as everything is working and stable. I am a believer in the fewer links in the chain the better, less likelihood of a failure, and as I said this working great so no complaints.

Thanks.
jsiemon is offline  
post #559 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsiemon View Post
Unlike some devices like my Denon AVR's that respond even when in StandBy, there is no response in either case when the device is OFF so there is nothing to interrogate. I think Wemo and others make hardware that tell if the device is On/Off by measuring voltage/current draw, but then that is just one more item that needs drivers and a device setup, not to mention the potential for failure. I use MCE Controller for my HTPC. I have used EG in the past and it works great, but I've settled on MCEC and see no reason to change at this point as everything is working and stable. I am a believer in the fewer links in the chain the better, less likelihood of a failure, and as I said this working great so no complaints.

Thanks.

Not used MCE but I would use EG to keep track of the power status. You could write a Python scrip in EG to query the mute status and when it doesn't get a return it would know that the power is off. Then send it out every so often to the iPad's. This way if some one just opens the app on a iPad it would get the status of the power.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #560 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 05:15 PM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg7321 View Post
Not used MCE but I would use EG to keep track of the power status. You could write a Python scrip in EG to query the mute status and when it doesn't get a return it would know that the power is off. Then send it out every so often to the iPad's. This way if some one just opens the app on a iPad it would get the status of the power.
Now I may be missing something so please correct me if I am wrong or missed your point, but I don't see how this materially changes the strategy we are currently using by implementing macros. When the HTPC is ON, EG is broadcasting that it is on and all the iPads can receive that broadcast and know the HTPC is active and set the HTPCPWR =ON directly, or indirectly as we are doing now using HTPCResponse=ON. When the HTPC is OFF there is no broadcast, but I still need to set a flag HTPCPWR=OFF. I am not receiving a broadcast and not able to query, so I am back to using the macro strategy of HTPCResponse=OFF or HTPCPWR=OFF as the Default Condition. In the latter case every time I call the Macro to insure I am receiving a broadcast I would see button flash when the HTPC is ON and HTPCPWR=ON. That leaves the indirect approach that we already implemented but substituting the broadcast response for the Query Command we now have. Nothing gained, nothing lost as far as DemoPad overhead.

I do get the fact that with a broadcast I will cut down on iPad WiFi traffic and Querys to the HTPC, but to be honest I have a fairly robust LAN and MESH WiFI setup, so the handful of iPads periodically querying the HTPC isn't much of an issue.

If I have missed something major, please correct me and thanks again for your response.
jsiemon is offline  
post #561 of 575 Old 05-16-2019, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsiemon View Post
Now I may be missing something so please correct me if I am wrong or missed your point, but I don't see how this materially changes the strategy we are currently using by implementing macros. When the HTPC is ON, EG is broadcasting that it is on and all the iPads can receive that broadcast and know the HTPC is active and set the HTPCPWR =ON directly, or indirectly as we are doing now using HTPCResponse=ON. When the HTPC is OFF there is no broadcast, but I still need to set a flag HTPCPWR=OFF. I am not receiving a broadcast and not able to query, so I am back to using the macro strategy of HTPCResponse=OFF or HTPCPWR=OFF as the Default Condition. In the latter case every time I call the Macro to insure I am receiving a broadcast I would see button flash when the HTPC is ON and HTPCPWR=ON. That leaves the indirect approach that we already implemented but substituting the broadcast response for the Query Command we now have. Nothing gained, nothing lost as far as DemoPad overhead.

I do get the fact that with a broadcast I will cut down on iPad WiFi traffic and Querys to the HTPC, but to be honest I have a fairly robust LAN and MESH WiFI setup, so the handful of iPads periodically querying the HTPC isn't much of an issue.

If I have missed something major, please correct me and thanks again for your response.

The way I would go about this is to write the Python script to broadcast two different sets of data, for example if its on it would broadcast "Its ON" if its off it will broadcast "Its OFF" now you can make it what ever you want. Then you would set up the feedback in DemoPad for EG and depending on the received data from EG, DemoPad would set the flags appropriately dependent of the feedback. Again I don't know why you are doing any macros for this. This should all be done in feedback section with no need to launch a macro.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #562 of 575 Old 05-17-2019, 08:12 AM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg7321 View Post
The way I would go about this is to write the Python script to broadcast two different sets of data, for example if its on it would broadcast "Its ON" if its off it will broadcast "Its OFF" now you can make it what ever you want. Then you would set up the feedback in DemoPad for EG and depending on the received data from EG, DemoPad would set the flags appropriately dependent of the feedback. Again I don't know why you are doing any macros for this. This should all be done in feedback section with no need to launch a macro.
Is this a strategy you have actually implemented or just proposing? For the life of me I don't understand how a script hosted on the HTPC can broadcast an HTPCOFF condition when the host HTPC itself is shutdown/OFF and not running. How does the script run? if it only does a 1 time broadcast when it shuts down, that I get, but that doesn't help provide a realtime status which is what I am looking for.

I guess I just will accept it at face. In my experience I have found that almost always there is more than a single way to achieve an objective. Some ways are better than others, and often it comes down to personal preference. I found that especially true with coding of software. We all approach things slightly differently, but in the end we get to where we need to be.

I do have another question though. How does one change the startup page on an existing project. When a project is created the default startup page is created along with the project (ie Home Page). If later in the project development I decide I want a different startup/Home Page how do I go about making that change. In iRule it was fairly straight forward, but I can't seem to find a simple way to make that change in DemoPad. Any ideas/experience?

Thanks.
jsiemon is offline  
post #563 of 575 Old 05-17-2019, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsiemon View Post
Is this a strategy you have actually implemented or just proposing? For the life of me I don't understand how a script hosted on the HTPC can broadcast an HTPCOFF condition when the host HTPC itself is shutdown/OFF and not running. How does the script run? if it only does a 1 time broadcast when it shuts down, that I get, but that doesn't help provide a realtime status which is what I am looking for.

I guess I just will accept it at face. In my experience I have found that almost always there is more than a single way to achieve an objective. Some ways are better than others, and often it comes down to personal preference. I found that especially true with coding of software. We all approach things slightly differently, but in the end we get to where we need to be.

I do have another question though. How does one change the startup page on an existing project. When a project is created the default startup page is created along with the project (ie Home Page). If later in the project development I decide I want a different startup/Home Page how do I go about making that change. In iRule it was fairly straight forward, but I can't seem to find a simple way to make that change in DemoPad. Any ideas/experience?

Thanks.
Sorry didn't think about shutting down the computer. A Windows PC of some kind would have to be running. Doesn't take much, if you have an older laptop laying around, run EG on the laptop. With the screen turned off, a laptop draws very little power.



As for your second question, I have the same problem. Never found an answer on the forums but never emailed support. Maybe a question for them.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #564 of 575 Old 05-17-2019, 01:21 PM
Member
 
jsiemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg7321 View Post
Sorry didn't think about shutting down the computer. A Windows PC of some kind would have to be running. Doesn't take much, if you have an older laptop laying around, run EG on the laptop. With the screen turned off, a laptop draws very little power.



As for your second question, I have the same problem. Never found an answer on the forums but never emailed support. Maybe a question for them.
I contacted demoPad support regarding the ability to change the startup page. I have to say they are very responsive, but unfortunately in this case the solution is not optimal. They suggested putting a Jump TO Page in the Page Load Actions. I had been doing something similar by placing a Jump To Page in Startup Actions. This works but is unsightly as it first loads the original startup page then quickly jumps to the new page specified in Jump TO Page. Placing it in the Page Load Actions is much better. Still it would be better if we could just reset the startup page in the software, but this does work.

The other option I might try is just to duplicate the current start page, reset all current links on other pages that point to original home page and set them to point to the duplicated page, and then rebuild original start page to my liking as though I was starting from scratch. It means I will have to go through all pages and reset the links, but it should make for higher quality and cleaner solution. I'm just really surprised that this capability is missing in the software.

EDIT: So Implemented the solution recommended by demoPad Support and it works surprisingly(at least to me) well. It basically ends up being what I proposed as my second option above but less hassle. You lose access to the original Home Page as every time you try to access it you are redirected via the Jump To Page to the new Home Page. This means you have to make a copy of the Original Home Page and rename it to New Home Page (or whatever) then reset any links on other pages that called back to the Original Home Page and set them to the New Home Page. Done and impressed.

Last edited by jsiemon; 05-17-2019 at 04:09 PM.
jsiemon is offline  
post #565 of 575 Old 05-18-2019, 10:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Peter M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,004
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Hi John,

I've been away for a few days so just catching up on your progress.

Glad to hear that it's now working. The Panny latency is an interesting issue that I haven't come across before.

I still believe that the macro we've come up with is the best solution for your situation, and it's an improvement to some of my power status tracking so I intend to implement the same. I think about it this way - we are using the absence of feedback to trigger the OFF state, so the process cannot be fully dealt with in the feedback section.

Have you tried changing the delay on the last two macro commands from 1.0 to 2.0 secs ? And then 3.0 secs and so on until it works reliably.

The repeat interval in the page load should then be changed to this delay + 1.0 secs. I think this will stop the commands tripping over each other.

Cheers,
Peter M is offline  
post #566 of 575 Old 05-19-2019, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Hi John,

I've been away for a few days so just catching up on your progress.

Glad to hear that it's now working. The Panny latency is an interesting issue that I haven't come across before.

I still believe that the macro we've come up with is the best solution for your situation, and it's an improvement to some of my power status tracking so I intend to implement the same. I think about it this way - we are using the absence of feedback to trigger the OFF state, so the process cannot be fully dealt with in the feedback section.

Have you tried changing the delay on the last two macro commands from 1.0 to 2.0 secs ? And then 3.0 secs and so on until it works reliably.

The repeat interval in the page load should then be changed to this delay + 1.0 secs. I think this will stop the commands tripping over each other.

Cheers,

I disagree, in this case you are better taking it off DemoPad. You have multiple iPads that may be pinging out to a device that is off. You will have less network issues. Plus in a Python script you can actually do some thing with no return on the feedback. But hay each there own.

Last edited by mpg7321; 05-19-2019 at 10:06 AM.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #567 of 575 Old 05-19-2019, 08:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Peter M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,004
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Having multiple iPads running Demopad certainly makes the whole setup more complex - you may be right. I have just the one controller with Demopad running so I tend to think only along those lines.

I guess another option would be to move the ON / OFF indicators away from the Activity pages and put them on a separate Power page. This is actually how I have mine setup. All my Activity pages have a link to an Advanced page and that's where I display the power status of all the devices.

Cheers,
Peter M is offline  
post #568 of 575 Old 05-19-2019, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Having multiple iPads running Demopad certainly makes the whole setup more complex - you may be right. I have just the one controller with Demopad running so I tend to think only along those lines.

I guess another option would be to move the ON / OFF indicators away from the Activity pages and put them on a separate Power page. This is actually how I have mine setup. All my Activity pages have a link to an Advanced page and that's where I display the power status of all the devices.

Cheers,

So the big thing here is the use of Multiple iPAd's. Has any one found a way to send a command to another DemoPad. If we could do that on a set interval, then you could just keep track of power status and update the other iPad's. Basically you would have to set it up so every iPad would send out the status to the other iPads. Then with the use of feedback you could set the status.
mpg7321 is offline  
post #569 of 575 Old 05-19-2019, 10:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Peter M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,004
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 290
The simplest solution would probably be adding one of Demopads controllers.

These allow centralised macros and variable storage.

Cheers,
Peter M is offline  
post #570 of 575 Old 05-20-2019, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
The simplest solution would probably be adding one of Demopads controllers.

These allow centralised macros and variable storage.

Cheers,

I asked support and you are correct you would have to add one of there controllers or use a program like EG to do what I was thinking of.
mpg7321 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Remote Control Area

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off