Missing Something with HDBaseT HDMI Switchers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 11 Old 04-08-2018, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Missing Something with HDBaseT HDMI Switchers

Hello all,

I am missing something here.

I am looking at something like this Altona unit that has Cat out with HDMI in. Notice that it also has IR in and out for each output which is all carried by the Cat cable. This allows me to carry an IR channel to the target TV to turn it on and set it to the right input. It also allows me to carry the IR output from the remote which is local to the TV and send it to the cable box located remotely.

What I don't understand is how this is supposed to be wired. Generally you plug the HDMI sources in to the switcher and then output them to a receiver who sends the Video to the TV and the sound to the speakers. This generally means one receiver per TV. It also means that the HDBaseT extender (if one is required) is wired on the receiver output so the TV can be a distance away.

When the HDBaseT is part of the switcher, where is the receiver wired? Is it before the switch or after?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 11 Old 04-08-2018, 07:56 PM
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Missing Something with HDBaseT HDMI Switchers

The cat5/6 runs to the remote tv and the receiver is at the tv. Attached pics of the back of a remote tv with the receiver stuck to the back with command strips. I’d forget the ir function of the atlona, it isn’t 12v compatible (Xantech etc) and will just cause frustration. If the tv isn’t IP controllable a global cache at the tv is better (or simple control box). They have newer boxes but are spendy. If 1080 works for you this is a solid box. Be careful and don’t mix up and plug it into your network. Not sure how the ports get blown but clearly it happens.




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post #3 of 11 Old 04-08-2018, 08:04 PM
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Also this way your control is ip not ir. Anywhere you can remove ir is good,especially between the remote and system. Ir from the system to controlled devices is okay but from your phone etc you want ip.


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post #4 of 11 Old 04-09-2018, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
I’d forget the ir function of the atlona, it isn’t 12v compatible (Xantech etc) and will just cause frustration.

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I wonder if something changed with their IR implementation, because I recently purchased the Atlona AT-HD-100-CEA-KIT, and have the IR working with other 12V gear. The manual did indicate it was not compatible with IR receivers not made by Atlona, but it was confusing, so I tried anyway.

Here is what I have: On the IR Rx end, I have a Niles IR receiver and a Xanatech connecting block. On the IR Tx end, I have a Niles MSU-480 connecting block and Niles emitters.

I was able to send IR commands from the remote TV, and they were successfully transmitted to the source device.

Any input on why this worked?




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post #5 of 11 Old 04-09-2018, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I wonder if something changed with their IR implementation, because I recently purchased the Atlona AT-HD-100-CEA-KIT, and have the IR working with other 12V gear. The manual did indicate it was not compatible with IR receivers not made by Atlona, but it was confusing, so I tried anyway.

Here is what I have: On the IR Rx end, I have a Niles IR receiver and a Xanatech connecting block. On the IR Tx end, I have a Niles MSU-480 connecting block and Niles emitters.

I was able to send IR commands from the remote TV, and they were successfully transmitted to the source device.

Any input on why this worked?




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Yes, because it’s 12v on your box. The older one I have is 5v and not compatible. I called them about it and they did mention that 12v should work on their 12v boxes as long as it’s wired correctly.

Still ultimately once you break the ir tether you won’t look back. Like when you’re going to bed and you walk off and then hit off, and don’t have to point anything at anything else and wait etc.


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post #6 of 11 Old 04-09-2018, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
The cat5/6 runs to the remote tv and the receiver is at the tv. Attached pics of the back of a remote tv with the receiver stuck to the back with command strips.
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Vince_B,

Thanks for the response. I misspoke. When I said Receiver, I meant AV Receiver, not HDBaseT Receiver.

I am not sure where the AV Receiver goes in relation to the switch when the switch has HDBaseT out.

When the switch has straight HDMI out, then I plug the AV Receiver in between the Switch out and the TV.

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post #7 of 11 Old 04-09-2018, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Garet Jax View Post
Vince_B,

Thanks for the response. I misspoke. When I said Receiver, I meant AV Receiver, not HDBaseT Receiver.

I am not sure where the AV Receiver goes in relation to the switch when the switch has HDBaseT out.

When the switch has straight HDMI out, then I plug the AV Receiver in between the Switch out and the TV.
On the Atlona PRO3 if you have something like a 6x6 then outputs 5 and 7 are HDBT and 6 and 8 are hard HDMI. Out of the box, 6 and 8 are set to mirror 5 and 7. If you have less than 8 displays, use the hard HDMI to go to an input on your AV receiver and the mirrored HDBT to go to the display.

If you are using all 8, then I usually return the audio from the TV digital out back to the receiver. I never trust this for Dolby Atmos, so if I have a source I know can do Atmos then I'll wire digital straight from that source and control the audio switching accordingly.

I use mono mini cables straight from the control system to IR in on the PRO3's... I have found that it works with some devices and not others, but it does work with the IR outs on my Elan controllers, but it does not work with the IR outs on a Global Cache (I think this may have been improved somewhere down the line). On some older installs, I have actually used the IR receiver to on the TX side and then just glued an ir emitter to the front of it. It was bandaid type stuff, but honestly it worked really well and I never got a call backs about it.

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post #8 of 11 Old 04-09-2018, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
I’d forget the ir function of the atlona, it isn’t 12v compatible (Xantech etc) and will just cause frustration.
I wasn't aware of that, but was planning on using the AT-PRO3HDREC receiver so 12V or no, the IR functions should still work.

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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
If the tv isn’t IP controllable a global cache at the tv is better (or simple control box).
I am planning on using a Simple Control system to control everything. I am also trying to plan for other options in case I run into problems with what can and can't be done. It seems to me that getting HDMI, IR in and IR out all over one Cat 6 cable is pretty cool. This is a reason I would buy this HDMI switch vs another competing switch. My intention is to use a Simple Control box to control the TV, but love having the IRs as backup. Let me give you an example, my Marantz AV receiver gets a firmware popup and I can't update the firmware without help from the wife or kids because the receiver is downstairs and the TV is upstairs. My Crestron remote was programmed only for minimal control of the AV receiver and can't be used to upgrade the firmware. I more or less leave the firmware popup until I can't stand it any longer and then enlist the necessary help. It would be great to be able to attach an IR in to the HDBaseT receiver, plug the other end in and connect it to the receiver so I could upgrade the firmware from in front of the TV.

Can I assume that the Global Cache and the Simple Control boxes are essentially the same thing?

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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
If 1080 works for you this is a solid box. Be careful and don’t mix up and plug it into your network. Not sure how the ports get blown but clearly it happens.
I am late coming to this party as I have had a Crestron controlled system for years. My hardware is mostly older stuff too and I don't want to replace all of it right now. I want to get Crestron out and replace it with stuff that gives me 100% control. Then if I find I am lacking, upgrade hardware as appropriate. 1080P is more than enough for me right now. I expect I will upgrade the Switch at some point to the version that supports HDCP 2.2, but at thousands vs hundreds especially when none of my stuff (except one TV) supports 4K, it is a no brainer.
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post #9 of 11 Old 04-09-2018, 07:25 AM
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I wasn't aware of that, but was planning on using the AT-PRO3HDREC receiver so 12V or no, the IR functions should still work.





I am planning on using a Simple Control system to control everything. I am also trying to plan for other options in case I run into problems with what can and can't be done. It seems to me that getting HDMI, IR in and IR out all over one Cat 6 cable is pretty cool. This is a reason I would buy this HDMI switch vs another competing switch. My intention is to use a Simple Control box to control the TV, but love having the IRs as backup. Let me give you an example, my Marantz AV receiver gets a firmware popup and I can't update the firmware without help from the wife or kids because the receiver is downstairs and the TV is upstairs. My Crestron remote was programmed only for minimal control of the AV receiver and can't be used to upgrade the firmware. I more or less leave the firmware popup until I can't stand it any longer and then enlist the necessary help. It would be great to be able to attach an IR in to the HDBaseT receiver, plug the other end in and connect it to the receiver so I could upgrade the firmware from in front of the TV.



Can I assume that the Global Cache and the Simple Control boxes are essentially the same thing?





I am late coming to this party as I have had a Crestron controlled system for years. My hardware is mostly older stuff too and I don't want to replace all of it right now. I want to get Crestron out and replace it with stuff that gives me 100% control. Then if I find I am lacking, upgrade hardware as appropriate. 1080P is more than enough for me right now. I expect I will upgrade the Switch at some point to the version that supports HDCP 2.2, but at thousands vs hundreds especially when none of my stuff (except one TV) supports 4K, it is a no brainer.

I bet the 12v ir is better but on the box I have the 5v is weak and ultimately not robust. I got it working but the receivers aren’t sensitive enough and generally it was disappointing. I thought exactly as you how slick it all was but in the end the global cache boxes are like an M1 Abrams against a B.B. gun.

SC can control everything 100% in my experience, as long as the device is compatible, take a look at their compatibility page. I say 100%, really what you have is a standard template of large buttons for each device, then at the bottom of that section there’s a logo you can tap that expands to all the available functions for that device. See pic for my TiVo as example. First pic is the default view and second pic is the expanded commands. You can definitely update firmware etc. The things I’ve run into for example is on a demon receiver there are lots of buttons that may or may not apply to your device, and some may be missing, obscure ones like the video select that lets you toggle the video source while staying on the current audio source.

Yes I believe the SC box is actually made by GC. Supposedly the SC box is more stable but gc boxes are very reliable already so I’m not sure what else you’d want, except SC box has more functions built in like ir and serial in one box I think. Oh and the old gc boxes are 802.11g so that’s annoying, I just used some older ap to keep them off my 802.11ac wlan. So yeah the SC boxes have some advantages.

If I were you I’d drop the ir and try network, less wiring, no receivers to mount and wire at the TVs, one consistent interface.



Expanded commands after tapping TiVo icon at bottom:




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post #10 of 11 Old 04-09-2018, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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If I were you I’d drop the ir and try network, less wiring, no receivers to mount and wire at the TVs, one consistent interface.

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Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your experience - it was exactly what I was looking to learn from. The HDBaseT holds a lot less value to me if I'm not using the IR in and IR out features.

I am now looking for a solid quality 1080P 6x6 HDMI In and HDMI out matrix switcher that works well with Simple Control.

Thanks a lot.
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post #11 of 11 Old 04-09-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Garet Jax View Post
Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your experience - it was exactly what I was looking to learn from. The HDBaseT holds a lot less value to me if I'm not using the IR in and IR out features.



I am now looking for a solid quality 1080P 6x6 HDMI In and HDMI out matrix switcher that works well with Simple Control.



Thanks a lot.


Sure thing. I like the cat 5 connections a lot because I’m not relying on flaky hdmi cables. Only other thing I’ll add is the atlona box switches very fast and there’s no blinking of the other rooms when switching a given room, you do get what you pay for in these boxes. Good luck.


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