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Old 04-12-2019, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Kramer Control - Remote Control

I recently started the migration from iRule to a Kramer Control set up to control my HT and AV systems in the house. I have not seen a Kramer thread here, so I was wondering if there were any other users out there.

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Old 04-12-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Axel View Post
I recently started the migration from iRule to a Kramer Control set up to control my HT and AV systems in the house. I have not seen a Kramer thread here, so I was wondering if there were any other users out there.

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Axel
Axel,


Just wondering... are you currently using a Kramer Controls setup? And whether you are or not, have you compared features and cost vs. Crestron and Insteon setups?

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Old 04-12-2019, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Axel,


Just wondering... are you currently using a Kramer Controls setup? And whether you are or not, have you compared features and cost vs. Crestron and Insteon setups?
I started using Kramer a few weeks ago. It feels very much like a major upgrade of iRule (big surprise looking at its origin): much more refined, faster, more powerful and customizable.

I did not look at Crestron. However, I have been using an Insteon setup (via ISY) for several years, mainly lighting in my home. It runs in parallel to / in conjunction with iRule, now Kramer.


What do you use? Still iRule?
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Axel View Post
What do you use? Still iRule?

Yes. I've been hell-bent on getting iRule to function with Kodi v18.1. I finally made some progress integrating iRule with the new JSON API in Kodi. TBH, I was about to chuck my Samsung tablet and iRule out the window on numerous occasions, but now that it's nearing completion of a working remote again, I do appreciate the interface.

I also use a Vera Plus, which controls IoT lighting and climate in my home. I've managed to figure out how to get the Vera to perform some tasks versus having iRule do them, should I choose to move the Vera into a middleware type of role with regards to controlling Kodi remotely.

Either way, it's getting to be frustrating feeling like I'm creating a kluge remote control system that sometimes feels like it is held together with duct tape and band-aids (also in my mix I have a Global Cache GC-100). If I were to "do over" my HT hardware, I'd seriously consider a software/hardware combo if it could replace my GC-100 and Vera (latter with regards to its HT duties only, such as controlling lighting).

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Old 04-12-2019, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Yes. I've been hell-bent on getting iRule to function with Kodi v18.1. I finally made some progress integrating iRule with the new JSON API in Kodi. TBH, I was about to chuck my Samsung tablet and iRule out the window on numerous occasions, but now that it's nearing completion of a working remote again, I do appreciate the interface.

I also use a Vera Plus, which controls IoT lighting and climate in my home. I've managed to figure out how to get the Vera to perform some tasks versus having iRule do them, should I choose to move the Vera into a middleware type of role with regards to controlling Kodi remotely.

Either way, it's getting to be frustrating feeling like I'm creating a kluge remote control system that sometimes feels like it is held together with duct tape and band-aids (also in my mix I have a Global Cache GC-100). If I were to "do over" my HT hardware, I'd seriously consider a software/hardware combo if it could replace my GC-100 and Vera (latter with regards to its HT duties only, such as controlling lighting).
I was able to keep all my control devices: global caches, digiport, xantech IR block, iPads, ISY, etc. with the migration from iRule to Kramer. I only added a Kramer 'brain'. It is nice to offload the controls/processing to a dedicated box, rather than having it run on an iPad, like it was with iRule.

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Old 04-12-2019, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
I was able to keep all my control devices: global caches, digiport, xantech IR block, iPads, ISY, etc. with the migration from iRule to Kramer. I only added a Kramer 'brain'. It is nice to offload the controls/processing to a dedicated box, rather than having it run on an iPad, like it was with iRule.

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GTK. The iRule architecture is going to be a huge liability when they turn off the update servers. No more device migration!

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Old 04-13-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
I recently started the migration from iRule to a Kramer Control set up to control my HT and AV systems in the house. I have not seen a Kramer thread here, so I was wondering if there were any other users out there.

____
Axel
Is this available to consumer end users, or are you a Kramer dealer?
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Old 04-13-2019, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Interactive View Post
Is this available to consumer end users, or are you a Kramer dealer?
I am a consumer end user.

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Old 04-13-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Axel View Post
I am a consumer end user.

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Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm probably missing something obvious here, but I'm confused by how to engage with Kramer. The phrasing on the Kramer site gave me the impression that configuration would happen via browser, but the only way I saw to begin was the "Download" link which sent me an APK file.

Perhaps my expectation is out of whack because I'm interpreting what I want ... which is a direct iRule replacement. :-)
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Old 04-13-2019, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactive View Post
Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm probably missing something obvious here, but I'm confused by how to engage with Kramer. The phrasing on the Kramer site gave me the impression that configuration would happen via browser, but the only way I saw to begin was the "Download" link which sent me an APK file.

Perhaps my expectation is out of whack because I'm interpreting what I want ... which is a direct iRule replacement. :-)

It's not a direct replacement.

The system runs on a dedicated controller. They call it 'brain', something like this.

Programming happens in the cloud through a browser, similar to iRule. My dealer hooked me up with an account.

Whatever you program there then syncs with the brain ... you 'publish' it.

You use an Android or iOS device to run their app - check the iOS or Android app store (like iRule), which syncs with the brain. Alternatively you can also run it in a regular browser window. The latter is great during programming (or if you cannot find your remote :-)) : you just open a second browser window and you can see/check immediately the results.

Hope this helps.

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Old 04-13-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
It's not a direct replacement.

The system runs on a dedicated controller. They call it 'brain', something like this.

Programming happens in the cloud through a browser, similar to iRule. My dealer hooked me up with an account.

Whatever you program there then syncs with the brain ... you 'publish' it.

You use an Android or iOS device to run their app - check the iOS or Android app store (like iRule), which syncs with the brain. Alternatively you can also run it in a regular browser window. The latter is great during programming (or if you cannot find your remote :-)) : you just open a second browser window and you can see/check immediately the results.

Hope this helps.

____
Axel
Yep, that all makes sense and helps a bunch. Thanks.

While this seems very robust, it's also probably more than I need. What I'm using iRule for today is primarily my whole-house audio system (Denon AVR running through a Aton DLA-6 speaker controller). iRule was perfect for this because I was able to build a very simple, one page UI with high WAF, to control the zones. It looks like Kramer would be equivalent to hammering a finishing nail with a sledge hammer.
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Old 04-14-2019, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
It's not a direct replacement.

The system runs on a dedicated controller. They call it 'brain', something like this.

Programming happens in the cloud through a browser, similar to iRule. My dealer hooked me up with an account.

Whatever you program there then syncs with the brain ... you 'publish' it.

You use an Android or iOS device to run their app - check the iOS or Android app store (like iRule), which syncs with the brain. Alternatively you can also run it in a regular browser window. The latter is great during programming (or if you cannot find your remote :-)) : you just open a second browser window and you can see/check immediately the results.

Hope this helps.

____
Axel
Are "consumer end users" able to get an account? What is the cost of the equipment and/or account?

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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Old 04-14-2019, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
It's not a direct replacement.

The system runs on a dedicated controller. They call it 'brain', something like this.

Programming happens in the cloud through a browser, similar to iRule. My dealer hooked me up with an account.

Whatever you program there then syncs with the brain ... you 'publish' it.

You use an Android or iOS device to run their app - check the iOS or Android app store (like iRule), which syncs with the brain. Alternatively you can also run it in a regular browser window. The latter is great during programming (or if you cannot find your remote :-)) : you just open a second browser window and you can see/check immediately the results.

Hope this helps.

____
Axel
How’s the connection with an iOS device? Meaning if your device goes dark/locks and disconnects, you have to wait for the system to reconnect to the hardware, etc. before you can use (e.g. pausing a movie). I believe they use this control system primarily for commercial applications with dedicated control panels that are on/connected all the time. iRule had the dim mode which was nice, but reconnected pretty fast anyway if the app went to the background. Having bright controllers on in a dark home theater environment is not ideal. Thanks. SJ
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Old 04-14-2019, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
How’s the connection with an iOS device? Meaning if your device goes dark/locks and disconnects, you have to wait for the system to reconnect to the hardware, etc. before you can use (e.g. pausing a movie). I believe they use this control system primarily for commercial applications with dedicated control panels that are on/connected all the time. iRule had the dim mode which was nice, but reconnected pretty fast anyway if the app went to the background. Having bright controllers on in a dark home theater environment is not ideal. Thanks. SJ
It's not quite as good as with iRule (yet). Currently, every time you access the app it reloads/connects to the brain - no caching - this takes several seconds. The Android app behaves a bit quicker, though. I was told that Kramer would address this issue soon. This is currently one of the bigger draw backs for me with this setup.

There is also no screen dimming, AFAIK. I mainly use iPads that have a cover, so whenever I am done sending commands, I close it. Otherwise the device just turns off the screen after the preset timeout. I can live with that.

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Old 04-14-2019, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
Are "consumer end users" able to get an account? What is the cost of the equipment and/or account?
I got mine through a dealer, who also set me up with an account. From what I understand there is only the cost for the hardware itself, i.e. the brain. I have a SL-240C, which seems to be openly available, e.g. on Amazon or CDW.

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Old 04-21-2019, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactive View Post
What I'm using iRule for today is primarily my whole-house audio system (Denon AVR running through a Aton DLA-6 speaker controller). iRule was perfect for this because I was able to build a very simple, one page UI with high WAF, to control the zones. It looks like Kramer would be equivalent to hammering a finishing nail with a sledge hammer.
Kramer has made a promising announcement about continued availability of the servers required to use the On Controls "Builder." If you are not already a dealer, get hooked up with one who can provide you with access (including new licenses).

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Old 04-22-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
It's not quite as good as with iRule (yet). Currently, every time you access the app it reloads/connects to the brain - no caching - this takes several seconds. The Android app behaves a bit quicker, though. I was told that Kramer would address this issue soon. This is currently one of the bigger draw backs for me with this setup.

There is also no screen dimming, AFAIK. I mainly use iPads that have a cover, so whenever I am done sending commands, I close it. Otherwise the device just turns off the screen after the preset timeout. I can live with that.

____
Axel
Yeah, waiting for your device to connect etc. to the brain when all you want to do is pause a movie would be an issue. Seems like the brain should always remain connected. As I mentioned, likely designed with commercial types of panels which are always connected. Any time frame mentioned for improving this? Good to hear that they at least know it is an issue for home use types of installations. Thanks. SJ
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:39 PM
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Have to agree with @SJHT ;re: his comments above.

FWIW, I'm still using iRule for now, though I have "outsourced" some functions to my Vera IoT hub as a sort of middleware. It's frustrating to have to think of a remote interface re-do after spending literally hundreds of hours tweaking iRule's interface. I don't want to repeat that experience.

So, right now when say I want to pause a movie, 2 commands get sent by iRule. One to my Kodi box and one to the Vera. Kodi is sent the "play/pause" command and Vera is sent a scene execution command. So, the bulk of the work is handled by Vera. When I pause a movie, Vera adjusts lighting in the room (ceiling lights on 25%, but not the lights over the stage). When I un-pause/play, Vera turns off the ceiling lights and turns on the step lights and a hallway floor light.

Contrast that with what I had before - iRule handled everything. I *could* have my Vera send the play/pause commands to Kodi as well, but the interface in Vera that detects whether or not the Kodi server is "up" is flaky. It's not reliable enough for me to count on it knowing whether or not Kodi is truly running. If it were more reliable, I'd take the load completely off iRule and have it just send a single command to Vera. Again, avoiding iRule doing the heavy lifting when possible due to its planned obsolescence.

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Old 04-22-2019, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Yeah, waiting for your device to connect etc. to the brain when all you want to do is pause a movie would be an issue. Seems like the brain should always remain connected. As I mentioned, likely designed with commercial types of panels which are always connected. Any time frame mentioned for improving this? Good to hear that they at least know it is an issue for home use types of installations. Thanks. SJ
I agree and unfortunately, I only was a given a 'soon' as targeted implementation time frame. In the world of software development that's everyone's guess that this actually means.

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Old 06-24-2019, 09:03 AM
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Are the old "Modules" from irule supported in kramer?
Nest, Vera, etc.

How about sending http type commands to homeseer for instance?
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Old 06-24-2019, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Are the old "Modules" from irule supported in kramer?
Nest, Vera, etc.

How about sending http type commands to homeseer for instance?

I have not come across any 'Modules' in the Kramer builder. This closest I found thus far for what you mentioned here is a device driver for Vera.


You may want to contact Kramer Support directly for a more qualified answer.


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