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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread

1M views 7K replies 928 participants last post by  nadrealista 
#1 ·
The MCACC system is in just about all new Pioneer units, yet setup and tweaking questions are scattered throughout the AVSFORUM.

Since MCACC is a common feature, I have been given the go ahead to start an

OFFICIAL MCACC thread.

There is an "Audyssey" thread where common problems get answered by their "pro's" and I am hoping that those typical MCACC questions get asked and answered here since not every knowledgeable MCACC expert hits every Pioneer thread.


The advantage is that MCACC questions could be centrally located and those questions dont bog down the individual Pioneer model threads.


Here are a few links that may give very basic info on MCACC, if you have more, let me know to include them.

I dont know how to link words to the web address, but hope posting the links works ok.


Short definition of MCACC
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...s/Tuning/MCACC


Pioneer’s description of what MCACC does, click on link to see their demonstration:
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/4.../AF_MCACC.html


Some info using Advanced MCACC and X-Curve for a particular unit that looked informative….
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avrecei...er/index1.html


Pioneer has downloadable "MCACC Software Manuals" that give more information. For the time period (time delay), there is a complete section on that subject ("Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration") on page 19 in both manuals I looked over (2 pages).


The manuals can be found on this page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default



Some helpful hints contributed by "Gamelover360", the original posting is on page 3

Thanks Gamelover360 for your contribution.

"OK....This is what I feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.


Work Flow:


1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).


2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)


3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings. You will also be given the options to have MCAAC calibrate for symmetry, all ch adjust and front align. You may save each calibration to seperate presets or run just one of them, or run two of them. You will see these options after you select Keep Sp settings.


4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration(s) saved to M1 (or to multiple presets if you chose more than one EQ calibration type in previous step: symmetry, front align, and all ch adjust) (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to as many other free presets as you like.


5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.


6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.


Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.


7) Change to the appropriate MCAAC preset before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. You choose which preset, but I would recommend a preset that is a carbon copy of an auto MCAAC calibration so that you can do an A-B comparison between auto EQ and advanced EQ. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)


Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in a preset with the advanced EQ effects in other presets while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in a preset, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in other presets.


Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)


VSX-1018 owners manual (especially read pages 38-50)


If I am wrong about something (which is possible), let me know. I did this so that folks looking to get the most out of their equipment could better do that. The whole Auto MCAAC thing can be a bit confusing, so maybe you can benefit from my research and tinkering."


Note: Auto MCAAC select delay capture time based upon you rooom ,and I have no idea how it does this or how to know what it chose as a delay time. that is why I recommend using advanved EQ.

gamelover360 is offline Forward Message
 
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#27 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff /forum/post/15645259


I was still trying to get the question answered, Do you need to set you speaker settings first manually, then run the auto correction? what does front align do?

I think you are supposed to run auto setup first. If satisfied with this then OK. Most people are not and at least go to the next step.


Manually correct speaker size, distance, and level(with spl meter). Re-run Auto MCCAC, at bottom where it says START, change to CUSTOM. Click OK, then at next screen, select KEEP SPEAKER SETTING. This will re-run MCCAC but keep you speaker size, distance, and level settings and re-calibrate.


If you are still not satisfied, you can use Manual MCCAC, Acoustic EQ Pro. Using this you can perform reverb measurments on your room. Using your reverb graphs you can select the time delay for MCCAC to use when acquiring the input for auto calibration. However I still am unsure how to interpret the graphs to determine where on the time axis to collect sound measurments. My graph flattens out after about 50ms, so I use the 50-60ms setting for acquisition, Not sure if this is "correct" or not.


I hope this is accurate and helpful.
 
#28 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 /forum/post/15645215


There had been a question regarding whether you you should re-run MCAAC in custom mode and choose Keep SP settings............... AFTER running auto MCAAC and making manual changes to SP Settings such as large, small, and crossover settings.


In other words, if MCAAC comes up with Large and 80 hz crossover in auto mode, and you change it to small and 100hz crossover, would re-running MCAAC in custom mode (and choosing Keep SP settings) change what MCAAC comes up with.


Any more input on that?

My minimal understanding and experience says, yes.
 
#29 ·
Thanks so much for this thread. I'm not proficient with the intricacies of MCACC so I pretty much just leave what MCACC tells me after running the calibration. The only thing I make sure of is that speakers are set to small (from large) and crossover at 80hz. If I change sub to "plus" what exactly does that do? Does it affect the crossover? I can't find info about this in the manual.

NickHitachi's instructions are intriguing and I never thought to do a custom MCACC. I think I will try it to see if I hear any improvements. But what does moving sub to "plus" actually do?

Thanks.
 
#30 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff /forum/post/15645259


I was still trying to get the question answered, Do you need to set you speaker settings first manually, then run the auto correction? what does front align do?

Personally, I ran auto MCACC and of course it selected my mains as LARGE. I immediately changed it, and then manually ran the rest of the calibrations, EQ, 3-position standing wave, and full band phase.

"front align" EQ's all your speakers EXCEPT it leaves the mains untouched. And of course it does nothing to the subwoofer. So basically no test tones are sent to the mains and subwoofer during the "front align" calibration.
 
#5,748 ·
Quote: Originally Posted by nezff

I was still trying to get the question answered, Do you need to set you speaker settings first manually, then run the auto correction? what does front align do?


Personally, I ran auto MCACC and of course it selected my mains as LARGE. I immediately changed it, and then manually ran the rest of the calibrations, EQ, 3-position standing wave, and full band phase.
"front align" EQ's all your speakers EXCEPT it leaves the mains untouched. And of course it does nothing to the subwoofer. So basically no test tones are sent to the mains and subwoofer during the "front align" calibration.
yeah i'm gonna try it out tomorrow as it's night now, ahahaha...anyways, so do u think i should keep the volumes like they are or match them? Like between L and R i have a 0.5 gap, same thing for the surrounds...is it fine to leave them like that? By the way, if i still hear the surrounds a bit low is perfectly normal to bring them at +4, right?

this is my setup, i still have to buy the sub (gonna buyt a jbl es250)







 
#31 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi /forum/post/15645360


I think you are supposed to run auto setup first. If satisfied with this then OK. Most people are not and at least go to the next step.


Manually correct speaker size, distance, and level(with spl meter). Re-run Auto MCCAC, at bottom where it says START, change to CUSTOM. Click OK, then at next screen, select KEEP SPEAKER SETTING. This will re-run MCCAC but keep you speaker size, distance, and level settings and re-calibrate.


If you are still not satisfied, you can use Manual MCCAC, Acoustic EQ Pro. Using this you can perform reverb measurments on your room. Using your reverb graphs you can select the time delay for MCCAC to use when acquiring the input for auto calibration. However I still am unsure how to interpret the graphs to determine where on the time axis to collect sound measurments. My graph flattens out after about 50ms, so I use the 50-60ms setting for acquisition, Not sure if this is "correct" or not.


I hope this is accurate and helpful.

Pioneer has downloadable "MCACC Software Manuals" that give more information. For the time period (time delay), there is a complete section on that subject ("Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration") on page 19 in both manuals I looked over (2 pages).


The manuals can be found on this page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default


Lexicon, probably a good idea to include that link in the first post.


Dan.
 
#32 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J /forum/post/15645423


But what does moving sub to "plus" actually do?

Thanks.

Plus will send LFE material to your mains in addition to your SW. If you run your speakers "small" and have a capable SW, do not set it to PLUS.
 
#34 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov /forum/post/15645446


Personally, I ran auto MCACC and of course it selected my mains as LARGE. I immediately changed it, and then manually ran the rest of the calibrations, EQ, 3-position standing wave, and full band phase.

"front align" EQ's all your speakers EXCEPT it leaves the mains untouched. And of course it does nothing to the subwoofer. So basically no test tones are sent to the mains and subwoofer during the "front align" calibration.

so basically run the All auto setup first. Then run individual setups but keep the speaker settings that the first one came up with?
 
#36 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff /forum/post/15645524


so basically run the All auto setup first. Then run individual setups but keep the speaker settings that the first one came up with?

A few posts ago, "nickshitachi" had a good explaination of how to change your speaker settings and run the calibrations while keeping the changes.
 
#37 ·
i have the vsx-91txh, so my mcacc setup is a little different. i have the option to select ALL, ALL keep sp settings, Speaker setting,channel level, speaker distance, acoustic cal eq, acoustic cal eq pro

I have a spl meter that I use to get the speaker levels and distance correct.


EQ Type (only available when the Auto Mode above is

Acoustic Cal EQ or Aco Cal EQ Pro.) – This

determines how the frequency balance is adjusted.

ALL CH ADJUST (default) is a ‘flat’ setting where all

the speakers are set individually so no special

weighting is given to any one channel. Optionally,5

FRONT ALIGN sets all speakers in accordance with

the front speaker settings (no equalization is applied

to the front left and right channels), and OFF (only

available when ALL is selected) allows you to save

calibration settings (such as speaker distance and

channel level) with no EQ or standing wave

adjustment to your selected preset.
 
#39 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan /forum/post/15645457


Pioneer has downloadable "MCACC Software Manuals" that give more information. For the time period (time delay), there is a complete section on that subject ("Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration") on page 19 in both manuals I looked over (2 pages).


The manuals can be found on this page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default


Lexicon, probably a good idea to include that link in the first post.


Dan.

Thanks for that Dan.


I hope someone can help me here.


I have a vsx-82 and I assume that on "auto", it ran the Professional Acoustic Calibration EQ automatically, right?


The vsx-59 has this feature but is not included in the auto mode, right?


I might have to check in the 59 forum cuz I'm confuz
ed


Thanks for the software link



bob
 
#43 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov /forum/post/15645495


Plus will send LFE material to your mains in addition to your SW. If you run your speakers "small" and have a capable SW, do not set it to PLUS.

Actually, it's the other way around. "Plus" (aka "double bass") sends the low frequency material intended for any non-LFE channel to any speaker set to Large AND to the subwoofer. The LFE material still goes only to the subwoofer. (LFE is directed to speakers set as Large only when the sub is "No" or "Off")


As noted, Plus can't be applied to speakers set to small, as their low frequency signals are already redirected to the subwoofer and Small speakers are unable to reproduce them by definition.


Many people like this effect, but it does not result in accurate bass. Since the amount of bass directed to the non-LFE channels varies greatly by source (each sound engineer independently decides how to do it for each project), there is no way to predict or calibrate the outcome.


To quote an Audyssey representative:


" …low frequency content is sent to BOTH the speaker and the subwoofer. If they happen to overlap in frequency response then you get double the bass—not good. I have it on good authority that this (“Double Bass”) mode was invented for people who can’t sleep at night because their speakers were detected as Small. Now they can keep their speakers as Large and use this kludge to still send bass to the subwoofer."


I'm more inclined to think it was invented for those who can't sleep because nothing comes out of their subwoofer with some sources (e.g. stereo music) when their mains are set to Large, but either way, it counters the intent of equalizing the system to a flat response.
 
#6,539 ·
To quote an Audyssey representative:

" …low frequency content is sent to BOTH the speaker and the subwoofer. If they happen to overlap in frequency response then you get double the bass—not good. I have it on good authority that this (“Double Bass”) mode was invented for people who can’t sleep at night because their speakers were detected as Small. Now they can keep their speakers as Large and use this kludge to still send bass to the subwoofer."

I'm more inclined to think it was invented for those who can't sleep because nothing comes out of their subwoofer with some sources (e.g. stereo music) when their mains are set to Large, but either way, it counters the intent of equalizing the system to a flat response.
The Audyssey rep is correct. You must not listen to any music that contains deep bass at a significant amplitude. The root of the problem is that Pioneer receivers don't have a separate XOVER for each speaker group. That leaves users with full-range front speakers, but limited range center and surrounds, with no ideal solution. The best compromise for me seems to be setting all speakers to small and XOVER to 80. The real question I have is: Why does MCACC ever set front speakers to large when a subwoofer is present? Maybe its designers also have never heard a stereo track that needed a subwoofer for proper reproduction.
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 /forum/post/15647606


Actually, it's the other way around. "Plus" (aka "double bass") sends the low frequency material intended for any non-LFE channel to any speaker set to Large AND to the subwoofer. The LFE material still goes only to the subwoofer. (LFE is directed to speakers set as Large only when the sub is "No" or "Off")


As noted, Plus can't be applied to speakers set to small, as their low frequency signals are already redirected to the subwoofer and Small speakers are unable to reproduce them by definition.


Many people like this effect, but it does not result in accurate bass. Since the amount of bass directed to the non-LFE channels varies greatly by source (each sound engineer independently decides how to do it for each project), there is no way to predict or calibrate the outcome.


To quote an Audyssey representative:


" low frequency content is sent to BOTH the speaker and the subwoofer. If they happen to overlap in frequency response then you get double the bassnot good. I have it on good authority that this (Double Bass) mode was invented for people who can't sleep at night because their speakers were detected as Small. Now they can keep their speakers as Large and use this kludge to still send bass to the subwoofer."


I'm more inclined to think it was invented for those who can't sleep because nothing comes out of their subwoofer with some sources (e.g. stereo music) when their mains are set to Large, but either way, it counters the intent of equalizing the system to a flat response.

Duh
And I didn't even have a drink last night



Thanks for clarifying
 
#51 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff /forum/post/15649264


my speakers 3db cutoff is 32hz. Im not sure about some other guys, but setting a speaker to large is asking it to reproduce every frequency, and they cant.

On the other hand, it's doubtful that many sound engineers go much below 35-40Hz or so in their main channel mixes very often, at least when they are including an LFE. They know that only a small percentage of speakers in use go any deeper, and I'm sure they take that into consideration. Not much point in including an effect that most users won't hear.
 
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