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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread

1M views 7K replies 928 participants last post by  nadrealista 
#1 ·
The MCACC system is in just about all new Pioneer units, yet setup and tweaking questions are scattered throughout the AVSFORUM.

Since MCACC is a common feature, I have been given the go ahead to start an

OFFICIAL MCACC thread.

There is an "Audyssey" thread where common problems get answered by their "pro's" and I am hoping that those typical MCACC questions get asked and answered here since not every knowledgeable MCACC expert hits every Pioneer thread.


The advantage is that MCACC questions could be centrally located and those questions dont bog down the individual Pioneer model threads.


Here are a few links that may give very basic info on MCACC, if you have more, let me know to include them.

I dont know how to link words to the web address, but hope posting the links works ok.


Short definition of MCACC
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...s/Tuning/MCACC


Pioneer’s description of what MCACC does, click on link to see their demonstration:
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/4.../AF_MCACC.html


Some info using Advanced MCACC and X-Curve for a particular unit that looked informative….
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avrecei...er/index1.html


Pioneer has downloadable "MCACC Software Manuals" that give more information. For the time period (time delay), there is a complete section on that subject ("Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration") on page 19 in both manuals I looked over (2 pages).


The manuals can be found on this page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default



Some helpful hints contributed by "Gamelover360", the original posting is on page 3

Thanks Gamelover360 for your contribution.

"OK....This is what I feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.


Work Flow:


1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).


2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)


3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings. You will also be given the options to have MCAAC calibrate for symmetry, all ch adjust and front align. You may save each calibration to seperate presets or run just one of them, or run two of them. You will see these options after you select Keep Sp settings.


4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration(s) saved to M1 (or to multiple presets if you chose more than one EQ calibration type in previous step: symmetry, front align, and all ch adjust) (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to as many other free presets as you like.


5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.


6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.


Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.


7) Change to the appropriate MCAAC preset before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. You choose which preset, but I would recommend a preset that is a carbon copy of an auto MCAAC calibration so that you can do an A-B comparison between auto EQ and advanced EQ. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)


Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in a preset with the advanced EQ effects in other presets while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in a preset, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in other presets.


Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)


VSX-1018 owners manual (especially read pages 38-50)


If I am wrong about something (which is possible), let me know. I did this so that folks looking to get the most out of their equipment could better do that. The whole Auto MCAAC thing can be a bit confusing, so maybe you can benefit from my research and tinkering."


Note: Auto MCAAC select delay capture time based upon you rooom ,and I have no idea how it does this or how to know what it chose as a delay time. that is why I recommend using advanved EQ.

gamelover360 is offline Forward Message
 
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#52 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J /forum/post/15645655


Okay, you guys are right. I just tried it and plus is not an option if speakers are set to small. I guess I saw it when the MCACC set the speakers to large and I thought it was still an option.

Normally if your speakers are set to large, the sub will not augment them. With plus, the sub will run as well as the speakers that are set to large.
 
#56 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 /forum/post/15647797


No, I was trying to say just the opposite. Guess my writing skills need help.



As nezff said, experts almost always recommend that all speakers be set to Small when used with a subwoofer.

I would love to have a Pioneer tech, who really understands MCACC, answer this.

If that's the case, why bother having floor standing fronts that will go down lower than say 40HZ, in a surround system that includes a sub? If all speakers should be small and the x-over set at 80Hz (that's the most recommended level), a good speaker that goes to 60Hz or so would be all anyone really should use. Paying extra for a floor stander that goes down low would be a waste.

I have an older pair of Mirage speakers with integrated subs with their own amps. (Model Frx-9). They go down below 30Hz. For that reason and because the amp isn't being asked to drive the low frequencies through them, I have them set as large and my sub set as plus. Now, I don't believe I'm getting too much base where the two overlap. I see that the LFE channel and low base sent to the mains set as large, are two different things, but that takes me back to my earlier question about bothering with floor standing speakers in the first place.

Also, maybe I'm one of those people that have trouble sleeping for one of the reason's stated above. I sure don't hear any excess boom though.
 
#57 ·
Tower speakers are mainly beneficial for music where most ppl will disable MCACC and use Direct or pure Direct mode. That or for braging rights




If you use any THX processing mode, all speakers will be automatically set to small and cross over set to 80Hz. In fact, for best results, you should use only THX certified speakers which only go down to 80Hz and require a specific rolling off slop below 80Hz.


Not all tower speakers are created the same. Some will struggle to reproduce LFE and muffle the mid and highs if you do so. So, in the end, you base your judgement on your own experiment. There is no clear cut answers.
 
#58 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 /forum/post/15651612


Tower speakers are mainly beneficial for music where most ppl will disable MCACC and use Direct or pure Direct mode. That or for braging rights




If you use any THX processing mode, all speakers will be automatically set to small and cross over set to 80Hz. In fact, for best results, you should use only THX certified speakers which only go down to 80Hz and require a specific rolling off slop below 80Hz.


Not all tower speakers are created the same. Some will struggle to reproduce LFE and muffle the mid and highs if you do so. So, in the end, you base your judgement on your own experiment. There is no clear cut answers.

Not true


On my 82, my speakers are large and I apply THX Cinema all the time.



bob
 
#59 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob /forum/post/15651762


Not true


On my 82, my speakers are large and I apply THX Cinema all the time.



bob

LoL. You didn't get it. You can set your speaker to large, xtra large or whatever. But if you use THX, it will automatically turn it into small with 80Hz crossover. That's the definition of THX.
 
#60 ·
MCACC is still applied when Direct mode is chosen, right? If not then what else does direct mode disable?
 
#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 /forum/post/15652866


LoL. You didn't get it. You can set your speaker to large, xtra large or whatever. But if you use THX, it will automatically turn it into small with 80Hz crossover. That's the definition of THX.


I don't think you own a vsx-82. When watching DD content, I switch from DD to "THX Cinema", go into the setup and my speakers are still set to large.


Now, If I run MCACC initially and choose THX, of course it runs them at small.



bob
 
#63 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob /forum/post/15653479


I don't think you own a vsx-82. When watching DD content, I switch from DD to "THX Cinema", go into the setup and my speakers are still set to large.


Now, If I run MCACC initially and choose THX, of course it runs them at small.



bob

I own a VSX-92. You will not see speaker settings change in the setup. It's invoked on the fly whenever any THX processing is used. It will automatically revert back to your normal speaker settings when you're not using THX processing.


Did you notice in the speaker setup, there is a THX crossover frequency of 80Hz and you can't change it?


THX processing mandates all speakers being crossed over at 80Hz, including front mains. Actually having full-range main speakers is not a good thing for THX because THX expects all speakers (THX certified) have the same drop off slop below 80Hz so that you can get idea responses from all speakers across the frequency range.


More details about THX can be found in this article: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-1.html
 
#65 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob /forum/post/15654042


Actually, I can


I just changed it to 50 w/ thx cinema applied, all speakers small!



bob

Actually that's the difference between your VSX-82 and the newer models. On your VSX-82, please read the owner manual page 44, foot note 4:
Quote:
If you're using a THX speaker setup, confirm that cross over feequency is set to 80Hz

And also on the speaker setup screen, it shows (THX: all small).


On my 92, the speaker setup screen displays a THX cross over of 80Hz (not changeable).


Please read the article I linked in previous post on how THX works.
 
#66 ·
After running Auto MCACC on my VSX-03TXH I changed my speaker setup to small do I have to rerun MCACC again to calibrate my system being speakers are now set to small. Does it matter? How to you save the settings once speakers are set to small?
 
#68 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 /forum/post/15654735


After running Auto MCACC on my VSX-03TXH I changed my speaker setup to small do I have to rerun MCACC again to calibrate my system being speakers are now set to small. Does it matter? How to you save the settings once speakers are set to small?

When you go to auto MCACC at the bottom where it says "start", highlight it and then scroll to the right. It should let you choose custom, from the custom menu you have several options.



BTW, anyone have any suggestions on how to run the multi-point EQ? I know how to access it on the menu, but in terms of mic placement anybody have any suggestions?
 
#69 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hoffman /forum/post/15651502


I would love to have a Pioneer tech, who really understands MCACC, answer this.

If that's the case, why bother having floor standing fronts that will go down lower than say 40HZ, in a surround system that includes a sub? If all speakers should be small and the x-over set at 80Hz (that's the most recommended level), a good speaker that goes to 60Hz or so would be all anyone really should use. Paying extra for a floor stander that goes down low would be a waste..

This has already been answered by Foxbat121. I'll just add that it is not an MCACC issue, it's a basic bass management issue, and applies to all AVRs, not just Pioneers.


As for whether it's worth buying a speaker that goes below 60Hz, that question is heavily debated in various speaker and subwoofer threads.


I'd say in a pure HT context, maybe not. But since many (most?) people set their subs "hot", a well designed full range speaker will often give greater fidelity to stereo music. But those are just my opinions and there is lots of disagreement on the subject.


(FWIW, my mains are DefTech Mythos STS's, with an internal woofer amp, measured -3dB at 28Hz. I set them at Large for music, but use THX Select 2 Cinema for movies and TV.)
 
#71 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJ25 /forum/post/15655279


When you go to auto MCACC at the bottom where it says "start", highlight it and then scroll to the right. It should let you choose custom, from the custom menu you have several options.



BTW, anyone have any suggestions on how to run the multi-point EQ? I know how to access it on the menu, but in terms of mic placement anybody have any suggestions?

I thought multi point was only for standing wave?
 
#72 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJ25 /forum/post/15655279



BTW, anyone have any suggestions on how to run the multi-point EQ? I know how to access it on the menu, but in terms of mic placement anybody have any suggestions?


I used the three (3) most used seating positions. I also went so far as to put the mic on top of the headrest of the chairs to best simulate where our ears would be!!
 
#74 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 /forum/post/15659188


I did the same, but used a tripod to hold the mic.

Ditto.


Setting it on the headrest won't really be accurate as, in most cases, your ears are actually in front of the headrest.



I don't even remember seeing the option for multi-point on my 03TXH. It has that feature too?
 
#75 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff /forum/post/15653338


this is not true and a matter of opinion. My floors 3db cutoff is 30hz.

I was just referring to front speakers in a surround sound environment, where there is a sub and all other speakers are set to small, with 80Hz as the crossover point. This is the THX default, as has been pointed out. In fact, I've heard that this is the preferred way to set up a surround environment for some years now. Unless you are using your fronts only for stereo music listening, having a tower speaker that goes fairly deep therefore is unnecessary. You can also use the sub with your front speakers for music as well. If it's a good fit, a good sub with a good set of small speakers can sound just fine with music. Now, if you are setting up a stereo music system, and don't want a sub for anything higher than 30 Hz or so, you will need a floor standing system with either no sub at all, or a sub for only the lowest of organ pedal notes etc.

I don't have the luxury of being able to set up a home theater and a separate stereo for music in another room. I'm using my Mirage Frx-9's with integrated powered subs as my front pair. Since they have integrated amps for the subs, it thought I'd use them in conjunction with my separate sub. I have them set to large and the sub set to plus.

I ran MCACC with them set that way and the system sounds good to my ears.

I've tried changing the speakers to small, which changes the sub setting to yes, but decided to leave my fronts as large. I guess what I should do is change the fronts to small and then re-run the multi point set up and see how the system sounds. I may like it better. But, if I leave the set up the way it is, just because the THX spec is all small with 80Hz crossover, is my setup wrong? Will a discerning ear find it inaccurate?
 
#76 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir /forum/post/15656151


Yes it is. This should be indicated on the receiver - at least it is on my VSX-91TXH. The MCACC symbol is lit up on direct (and pure direct for that matter).

Hm, I thought Pure Direct didn't use MCACC and bypassed all tone controls fo any kind.

My system sure sounds different when I switch to Pure Direct. Very different.
 
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