Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 968 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29011 of 29511 Old 04-03-2020, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sound2017 View Post
Yes you answered my question thank you. How do I post a pic of my preferences chart with soundcard? On "input device" It does not say Microphone Umik-1. The options are microphone (usb audio device), microphone (soundmax integrated), primary sound capture driver, and rear input (soundmax integrated.

Also I need to learn how to "calibrate the soundcard" on Preferences: Soundcard. And how to "check levels" on the same page...

I dont know how to post a picture of my preferences chart! Can someone help me do this so you can see what I am working with?
Since you are working with an old laptop, I am not sure whether it is a Windows laptop or a Mac. If it is Windows, what version of Windows are you running? Unfortunately, it has become increasingly difficult to provide support for users who are running outdated hardware and software.

Typically, to post a screenshot (on a Windows laptop), one would press the PrtSc let to capture the screen image, paste the result into MSPaint, save the file to disk as a .PNG file, and then drag the file into the attachment area at the bottom of the posting screen.
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post #29012 of 29511 Old 04-03-2020, 06:29 PM
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I am actually using a desktop computer I have in my theater room. I have a desk behind my couch. It is using Windows 7. Can you recommend a refurbushed laptop that has HDMI?

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post #29013 of 29511 Old 04-03-2020, 06:41 PM
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I am actually using a desktop computer I have in my theater room. I have a desk behind my couch. It is using Windows 7. Can you recommend a refurbushed laptop that has HDMI?
Sorry, I wouldn’t know what to recommend.
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post #29014 of 29511 Old 04-03-2020, 06:48 PM
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What should I do for now? What all do I have to do on the Preferences page "soundcard" and "Cal files"?
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post #29015 of 29511 Old 04-03-2020, 07:08 PM
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WHat do I do? SPL to see how flat my response is or dbFS? Am I supposed to turn it up loud for SPL?
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post #29016 of 29511 Old 04-03-2020, 07:13 PM
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Here are my dbFS readings first. And then the SPL readings but not at a loud volume:
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post #29017 of 29511 Old 04-03-2020, 07:22 PM
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I am using the mic/meter 90 degree right now. Should I be using the other one?
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post #29018 of 29511 Old 04-04-2020, 12:07 PM
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Hello, hopefully this the appropriate area to post this question.


Thanks to the "getting started with rew" pdf I believe I have my umik-1 and rew setup correctly on a windows 10 gaming rig (don't have a laptop). The problem I'm having is the program itself isn't stable on my machine, regardless of rew software version.


Please see attached picture for a visual of what's happening. Once rew is loaded, and a any aspect of the program that pops up an additional window is used, the interface goes wonky and changes as the cursor is moved around. Making it difficult to downright impossible to use.


Hopefully someone else has encountered this and can point me in the right direction for a fix.
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TV: Vizio P65-F1 - Receiver: Marantz SR6013 - Mains: Polk RTi10 - Center: Polk CSi5 - Surrounds: Polk f/xi3 in bipole - Atmos front .2 Klipsch RP-500SA - Atmos rear .2: Klipsch R-41SA - Sub: HSU VTF-15H MK2 - Sony Ubp-X800M2 - Oppo BDP-93 - Nvidia Shield Pro 2019
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post #29019 of 29511 Old 04-04-2020, 01:09 PM
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Once rew is loaded, and a any aspect of the program that pops up an additional window is used, the interface goes wonky and changes as the cursor is moved around. Making it difficult to downright impossible to use.
Usually a disagreement between Java and your graphics driver. When you run the installer uncheck the box to use hardware graphics acceleration.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tighe View Post
Hello, hopefully this the appropriate area to post this question.


Thanks to the "getting started with rew" pdf I believe I have my umik-1 and rew setup correctly on a windows 10 gaming rig (don't have a laptop). The problem I'm having is the program itself isn't stable on my machine, regardless of rew software version.


Please see attached picture for a visual of what's happening. Once rew is loaded, and a any aspect of the program that pops up an additional window is used, the interface goes wonky and changes as the cursor is moved around. Making it difficult to downright impossible to use.


Hopefully someone else has encountered this and can point me in the right direction for a fix.
How does the computer run normally?
With REW is it slow to open?
Things to try
Shutdown and restart does it improve or does it appear exactly the same as photo?
Open REW, close program then reopen, is it slow?
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post #29021 of 29511 Old 04-04-2020, 04:01 PM
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Usually a disagreement between Java and your graphics driver. When you run the installer uncheck the box to use hardware graphics acceleration.

This solved my problem. Thank you very much. I have a VTF-15H MK2 being delivered Monday so I figured it's time to get serious about sub placement/room measurements.

TV: Vizio P65-F1 - Receiver: Marantz SR6013 - Mains: Polk RTi10 - Center: Polk CSi5 - Surrounds: Polk f/xi3 in bipole - Atmos front .2 Klipsch RP-500SA - Atmos rear .2: Klipsch R-41SA - Sub: HSU VTF-15H MK2 - Sony Ubp-X800M2 - Oppo BDP-93 - Nvidia Shield Pro 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
How does the computer run normally?
With REW is it slow to open?
Things to try
Shutdown and restart does it improve or does it appear exactly the same as photo?
Open REW, close program then reopen, is it slow?

Nothing was slow, the UI would just go wonky while still being responsive. The culprit was the "hardware acceleration" during installation option. Thanks for your reply. :-)

TV: Vizio P65-F1 - Receiver: Marantz SR6013 - Mains: Polk RTi10 - Center: Polk CSi5 - Surrounds: Polk f/xi3 in bipole - Atmos front .2 Klipsch RP-500SA - Atmos rear .2: Klipsch R-41SA - Sub: HSU VTF-15H MK2 - Sony Ubp-X800M2 - Oppo BDP-93 - Nvidia Shield Pro 2019
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post #29023 of 29511 Old 04-05-2020, 04:53 PM
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Measurement for 18" sub and 4 MBM's together.

This is a measurement of my 18" LMS-R Ultra and my 4 MBM's. It looks great right for all 5 subs? Except for a dip around 37hz. Now I need to watch the rest of the REW video to get that dip out of there.
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post #29024 of 29511 Old 04-05-2020, 04:59 PM
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This is a measurement of my 18" LMS-R Ultra and my 4 MBM's. It looks great right for all 5 subs? Except for a dip around 37hz. Now I need to watch the rest of the REW video to get that dip out of there.
Just out of curiosity, can you re-post the graph with the vertical axis set 50-100dB, and no smoothing?
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post #29025 of 29511 Old 04-05-2020, 05:16 PM
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Just out of curiosity, can you re-post the graph with the vertical axis set 50-100dB, and no smoothing?
Not sure what you mean by smoothing thats the measurement I got I don't even know how to "smooth" anything. And let me see if I can figure out the vertical axis thing. I think I set the vertical axis to 50-100db.

Heres another measurent of all 5 subs together.
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I am interested to see what other people think about my setup... Anyone want to come have a listen to my setup in Longmont, CO?
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Not sure what you mean by smoothing thats the measurement I got I don't even know how to "smooth" anything. And let me see if I can figure out the vertical axis thing. I think I set the vertical axis to 50-100db.

Heres another measurent of all 5 subs together.
The revised vertical scale shows that the dip from 30-45Hz is pretty significant. If you are looking for something to focus on to improve your bass response, figuring out what is causing that dip would be the place to start. Since you have five drivers, I suggest you try some different placements.

Smoothing is typically used when showing a full-range measurement from 15-20,000Hz, but not used for a sub-only measurement 15-300Hz. Smoothing is applied by opening the gear icon in the upper right corner.
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post #29028 of 29511 Old 04-05-2020, 06:11 PM
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I am interested to see what other people think about my setup... Anyone want to come have a listen to my setup in Longmont, CO?
Any travel right now would be problematic. A good start towards getting feedback would be to post some pictures, as well as taking some measurements of subs + mains.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound2017 View Post
I am interested to see what other people think about my setup... Anyone want to come have a listen to my setup in Longmont, CO?
Any travel right now would be problematic. A good start towards getting feedback would be to post some pictures, as well as taking some measurements of subs + mains.
+1
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post #29030 of 29511 Old 04-05-2020, 07:03 PM
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Ya I was talking about someone coming over after this whole thing blows over. I thought I tuned my MBM's to 40hz but I think its more like 50hz. Maybe that is causing a dip at 40hz? I have one 6" aeroport in each box with just the ends glued together. And the boxes are 26" x 15" x 15" so roughly 2.4ft3 after all displacements.

Actually they are 4" aeroports... my bad.

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Wow! Huge dip at 130hz with my left front (orange)
Right front no dip (purple)
Left and right smaller dip (green)

Is my crossover messed up in my left 1099?
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Wow! Huge dip at 130hz with my left front (orange)
Right front no dip (purple)
Left and right smaller dip (green)

Is my crossover messed up in my left 1099?
If those are measurements of your mains, you should be measuring 15-20,000Hz. The published results should have smoothing applied, preferably variable smoothing. Let’s see those results before we pass judgement.
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Here is a measurement with variable smoothing. What's the difference between variable and the different octave smoothing?
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Not sure I understand your question. Have you read the REW Help file?
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I meant what's the difference between variable smoothing and the 1/6 and 1/12 etc.

How does my measurement look after smoothing? It's pretty horrible right?

And do you think I can fix the dip at 37hz by making my ports in my MBM's longer?

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@AustinJerry

Hi Austin,

1) I have a new Arcam receiver in my way today and have been researching a lot on Dirac, I found your "Custom Target Dirac Curves" very interesting, On page 6 you talk about lowering the curve
to making the curve smoother and remove even more nulls. I assume this is at the cost of headroom since the volume must be turned higher to get the desired SPL. Is it worth the cost of
headroom or is dependent on the power of your pre-amp or my case receiver

2) The Target Curve that is first used in your guide, is that a curve that Dirac has come up with or did you custom make yourself

3) I have been using Audyssey for years with a Mini-Dsp for two subs, Usually for Audyssey I correct the FR to flat, Using "none" as speaker type in the Eq in REW. For Dirac should I use the
subwoofer as speaker type now or still correct to flat, I have a feeling from previous forums that you create a sloping curve to the sub ? There is bass management modules being introduced to
Dirac but not released yet

4) I have seen other guides grouping the speakers together creating a target curve optimizing and then ungrouping them making adjustments in the lower bass range. this would make sense to me
in getting all the speakers to have the same sound and fixing any bass issues after especially one's with a higher Xo. In Audyessy in the Curve editor having measured the speakers already I
believe there was a feature that would not allow you to boost beyond what the speaker was capable, Does Dirac do this or must I be careful on the boost I create on the smaller speakers like
Atmos one's 100hzXo.

Thanks in advance
Jim
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Quote:
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I meant what's the difference between variable smoothing and the 1/6 and 1/12 etc.

How does my measurement look after smoothing? It's pretty horrible right?

And do you think I can fix the dip at 37hz by making my ports in my MBM's longer?

REW Help is very informative and explains it. In shart var smooth does no smoothing in lower fr. and smooth more as FR rise.

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall
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Originally Posted by sound2017 View Post
I meant what's the difference between variable smoothing and the 1/6 and 1/12 etc.

How does my measurement look after smoothing? It's pretty horrible right?

And do you think I can fix the dip at 37hz by making my ports in my MBM's longer?
Directly from REW Help: “ Variable smoothing applies 1/48 octave below 100 Hz, 1/3 octave above 10 kHz and varies between 1/48 and 1/3 octave from 100 Hz to 10 kHz, reaching 1/6 octave at 1 kHz. Variable smoothing is recommended for responses that are to be equalised. Psychoacoustic smoothing uses 1/3 octave below 100Hz, 1/6 octave above 1 kHz and varies from 1/3 octave to 1/6 octave between 100 Hz and 1 kHz. It also applies more weighting to peaks by using a cubic mean (cube root of the average of the cubed values) to produce a plot that more closely corresponds to the perceived frequency response. ERB smoothing uses a variable smoothing bandwidth that corresponds to the ear's Equivalent Rectangular Bandwidth, which is (107.77f + 24.673) Hz, where f is in kHz. At low frequencies this gives heavy smoothing, about 1 octave at 50Hz, 1/2 octave at 100 Hz, 1/3 octave at 200 Hz then levelling out to approximately 1/6 octave above 1 kHz.”

Your response curve looks pretty typical above 100Hz, but that deep dip at 35Hz would concern me. I have no experience with ported subs, so you are better off seeking guidance from someone else. Have you tried alternate placements?
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Quote:
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@AustinJerry

Hi Austin,

1) I have a new Arcam receiver in my way today and have been researching a lot on Dirac, I found your "Custom Target Dirac Curves" very interesting, On page 6 you talk about lowering the curve
to making the curve smoother and remove even more nulls. I assume this is at the cost of headroom since the volume must be turned higher to get the desired SPL. Is it worth the cost of
headroom or is dependent on the power of your pre-amp or my case receiver

2) The Target Curve that is first used in your guide, is that a curve that Dirac has come up with or did you custom make yourself

3) I have been using Audyssey for years with a Mini-Dsp for two subs, Usually for Audyssey I correct the FR to flat, Using "none" as speaker type in the Eq in REW. For Dirac should I use the
subwoofer as speaker type now or still correct to flat, I have a feeling from previous forums that you create a sloping curve to the sub ? There is bass management modules being introduced to
Dirac but not released yet

4) I have seen other guides grouping the speakers together creating a target curve optimizing and then ungrouping them making adjustments in the lower bass range. this would make sense to me
in getting all the speakers to have the same sound and fixing any bass issues after especially one's with a higher Xo. In Audyessy in the Curve editor having measured the speakers already I
believe there was a feature that would not allow you to boost beyond what the speaker was capable, Does Dirac do this or must I be careful on the boost I create on the smaller speakers like
Atmos one's 100hzXo.

Thanks in advance
Jim
1) My advice would always be to avoid spots in the predicted response where Dirac is applying its maximum 10dB boost. Run the Dirac measurements and then examine the Avg After curve to see where it fails to match the target, and by how much the predicted curve is lower than the target. If there are problem areas, I would recommend lowering the target to fix the problems, which of course requires a higher master volume setting. I would rather raise the MV than have the over-boosted spots in the predicted response curve. Also remember that if the over-boosted spots are below the crossover point (for the mains), simply raise the curtain and don’t apply correction where over-boosting would be required.

2) I developed my target curve following guidelines from Olive’s white paper, which is linked in my guide. It is quite similar to what is called the “Room Feel” curve that many others use.

3) I have no guidance regarding whether to use the “None” or the “Subwoofer” setting when creating PEQ for your subs. Go with the approach that provides the smoothest response to present to Dirac.

4) I would be reluctant to tweak individual speaker targets after the Dirac calibration. I apply the same target curve to all speakers, with the only post-calibration tweak being to adjust the low-end curtain for the smaller surround speakers.
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1) My advice would always be to avoid spots in the predicted response where Dirac is applying its maximum 10dB boost. Run the Dirac measurements and then examine the Avg After curve to see where it fails to match the target, and by how much the predicted curve is lower than the target. If there are problem areas, I would recommend lowering the target to fix the problems, which of course requires a higher master volume setting. I would rather raise the MV than have the over-boosted spots in the predicted response curve. Also remember that if the over-boosted spots are below the crossover point (for the mains), simply raise the curtain and don’t apply correction where over-boosting would be required.

2) I developed my target curve following guidelines from Olive’s white paper, which is linked in my guide. It is quite similar to what is called the “Room Feel” curve that many others use.

3) I have no guidance regarding whether to use the “None” or the “Subwoofer” setting when creating PEQ for your subs. Go with the approach that provides the smoothest response to present to Dirac.

4) I would be reluctant to tweak individual speaker targets after the Dirac calibration. I apply the same target curve to all speakers, with the only post-calibration tweak being to adjust the low-end curtain for the smaller surround speakers.
Got it thank's

Sorry one more question,
I have been using the MiniDsp for a while now, but I have been level matching the subs (2 x Sb2000) all this time, in reading your article on gain matching sounds like so much more sense. In my head before I thought level matching would be better as one sub may have a higher spl in one region to the other due to location. But in essence, you want them both to output identical SPL using gain matching regardless of the position of the sub.
But this still has to be verified by the MLP position.

Not that I want to cheat, but let's say I put both subs at the exact 12 o clock position, which may be higher than needed, but will be both at the same level, and use the MiniDsp Input volume to lower the SPL that's needed, would that work. Since both subs are identical
Or would I need to fine tune with the MiniDsp on the SPL output for each sub to gain match more precisely.
The reason I like the idea of using the MinDsp for volume is that if I ever manage to accidentally touch the volume on the sub, getting at 12 o clock would be easier to achieve. I know I can only really turn the volume down on the MinDsp and not up to avoid clipping

I'm waiting on the AVR and in the meantime, I want to fine-tune my subs, I realised on REW that my left sub had a higher SPL on Level-matching which must have been the case for a while now, I level matched them again and the dual response is a lot different with the seond sub producing a lot more SPL 90hz on.

Thanks
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