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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A recent thread of mine ("First impressions with LC tubes, and a potentially interesting theoretical question." http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=567976 ) split down two equally interesting (to me, at least) paths. The original thread concentrated on potential benefits and means of cooling the glycol in LC tubes.


The parallel path (to whit this thread is dedicated) speculated that 07MPA tubes (LC versions of the common 07MP) could provide a relatively easy LC mod for several common PJs (among them, my BG801 PJs.)

I'll start this thread with appropriate quote pastes (librally trimmed for space, where there was overlap between topics: )


(original posting by me: )
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley
Touched upon recently was the need for LC chambers to be full, even for very short periods, to prevent phosphor wear/burn. In that thread, it was very briefly speculated that keeping the glycol cooler might _extend_ tube life.

Given how easy it'd be to mod an LC tube for greater heat transfer, I think it bears discussion.

I've laid my hands upon my first sets of LC tubes (from my recently acquired RetroData 801 PJs) and the first thought I had was "convection cooling" when I saw the loop of hose running around the tube bell.

Besides providing a short circuit path for HV, what's to prevent us from changing a length of the tubing to copper of black tin?

Just as importantly, what quantative test can be applied to whether tube life is improved?

(IIRC, black tin won't oxidize and pollute the fluid, which is why it's used in beverage systems. Fifteen year old memories here, probably flawed.)

[RANDOM, IGNORANT SPECULATION] I'm thinking of CMJ's frankenyolks, which may cause greater wear given a spot size markedly smaller than the original when the phosphor was laid down.[/RANDOM, IGNORANT SPECULATION]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4101 CRT
Here is another thought with your 07MPA tubes. The front chamber will allow HD-145 or HD-144 lenses to be fitted directly to it. Everyone wants color Filtered lenses on there PJ you can do it without adaptors with the 07MPA. The only question is what the focus range will be with the LC housing designed for short projection and HD-144 lenses made for long throws? I have a set but haven’t tried it yet, just think color corrected and filtered plus liquid coupled lenses on a 801, all the 808 users would be jealous of you.

Pat
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley
Hmmm put the LCs in my BG801 FP . . . that's a mod I had considred but decided I could not do it with GT114 and GT117 lenses. I'll have to try it with my burned MPAs and 42000 hour BG801 chassis (if I can find lenses.)

Good point on the air bubbles, that reason did not even dawn on me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
You can't add AC lenses to LC tubes, there'd be 2 C-elements for a start...it won't focus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ile
Have anybody ever tested Retro LC-chamber+C-element with HD8* or HD144*/HD145* lenses?

*Certainly original "C-elements" have to remove from lenses...

I'm going to test it some day, unless somebody can tell it doesn't works. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFerret
SO, who has done this yet?
(I assume TheFerret was talking about the LC/Lens mod, not the LC/glycol cooling mod.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley
If I can lay my hands on one or three lenses I can do this with my collection of spares. Being an ignorant noob, however, prevents me from doing an accurate analysis.

Chip, got any HD144 or 145 lenses in your collestion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4101 CRT
For a cheaper test you can also just use the normal lens from any ECP projector is HD-06? darn I forget the number, anyways you don’t need to use HD-145 color filtered just for the focus test, you can find many of the other lenses on Ebay for cheep.

As Mark-A said you may need to remove the first element on the lens or two c-elements will be combined and not work at all.

Last for Techman707 the 07MPA or 07MSPA tube is actually just a 07MP with a different housing. It has a LC element and tubes that wrap around the neck filled with glycol. The 07MPA’s also have bolts that fit the smaller lenses found in ECP’s this is what got me thinking about adding color filtered HD-145 to the tubes, 07MPA’s are found in retro’s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrking
Hmm I wonder if any of you freaks could use my sets of HD214 lenses for this experiment?

They are for Retro 801s and 808s and 708s. I happen have a whole bunch of these. Maybe 10 sets or so.

According to Per Johnny these should be able to focus at an image width of 260cm but a friend of mine who tested these doesn't agree.

Since these doesn't have the corner focus adjustment they are rather blurry in the edges.

But if someone were to test and butcher on of these and combine them with a set that has corner focus then maybe they can be made to work?

The 07MPA and 07MSPA can be found int Barco Retro Graphics 800 and 801s and also those ugly Sony TV cubes Sony RVP401 is one model I believe.


I think that summs it up. I'm actually quite a bit more interested in this topic than the other . . . "First impressions" was for theory... while this thread has some practical implecations for my primary HT.

Practical enough, for example, to inspire me to put my picturetel tubes in my happily working RD801 and put the good MPA tubes in my BG801 (were I to find lenses.)
 

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You can try what Ile said


Originally Posted by Ile


"Have anybody ever tested Retro LC-chamber+C-element with HD8* or HD144*/HD145* lenses?

*Certainly original "C-elements" have to remove from lenses...

I'm going to test it some day, unless somebody can tell it doesn't works. "


I think you'll lose your colour correction though - the HD-144/5 has it in the C-element (I think). If the LC tube has it in the LC C-element then you'd be right....if it'll focus...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
I think you'll lose your colour correction though - the HD-144/5 has it in the C-element (I think). If the LC tube has it in the LC C-element then you'd be right....if it'll focus...
Have somebody break up HD144 lens and tell us which part have filtering. I hope it isn't in lens "c-element". :)


At least MSPA have clear C-elements, so 801s Retro don't have color filtering.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
You can try what Ile said


Originally Posted by Ile


"Have anybody ever tested Retro LC-chamber+C-element with HD8* or HD144*/HD145* lenses?

*Certainly original "C-elements" have to remove from lenses...

I'm going to test it some day, unless somebody can tell it doesn't works. "


I think you'll lose your colour correction though - the HD-144/5 has it in the C-element (I think). If the LC tube has it in the LC C-element then you'd be right....if it'll focus...
Mark,


If the 07MPA are really LC, then you CAN'T use ANY of those lenses on them.
 

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JT,

Drop off one of your old junk tube/LC assembies. The physical size difference between HD-8's and HD-10's is not that much. In fact a HD-10 lens cap is too small for a HD-8.

I have a set of HD-10's kicking around and it might be interesting to see one could be adapted to your couplings. Then you would have a true 801S LC. People would freak when they saw a set of HD-10's poking out of the front of a 801S.


Chip
 

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Chip,


It has NOTHING to do with whether you can "fit" the lens on or not. An LC lens IS NOT a complete lens like say an HD-8. The elements are completed when you add the c-element, which is really part of the lens.


Bruce
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
Chip,


It has NOTHING to do with whether you can "fit" the lens on or not. An LC lens IS NOT a complete lens like say an HD-8. The elements are completed when you add the c-element, which is really part of the lens.


Bruce
Yes Bruce, I know that. It's my understanding that he wants to adapt the LC'd tubes he has to his 801 FP. These have c-elements in place and why I suggested to look at fitting the HD-10.


Chip
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefuel
Yes Bruce, I know that. It's my understanding that he wants to adapt the LC'd tubes he has to his 801 FP. These have c-elements in place and why I suggested to look at fitting the HD-10.


Chip
Somebody kept saying HD-145's, etc. No regular lens can be used. As for the HD10's, I'm sure that the c-element is different, in which case it doesn't matter if it fits or not (which it won't), because like I said, the c-element is part of the lens.


Maybe he should post a picture of the tube so all this can be put to rest. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'll do so this evening.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
If the 07MPA are really LC, then you CAN'T use ANY of those lenses on them.
07MPA and 07MSPA are LC.


Idea was test if modded normal AC-lens (last lens removed) focus with 07MPA c-element...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley
I'll do so this evening.
JT,

You may want to wait until tomorrow. The Queen is OTR. She came home today to tell me that her paycheck bounced :rolleyes: . She's not fit to be around right now ;) . She's working tomorrow night so stop by then. You never got to see the 4600 do HD so we could view some HD material.


Chip
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ile
Idea was test if modded normal AC-lens (last lens removed) focus with 07MPA c-element...
Unfortunately, you can't do that. Removing the last element will not work. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I saw this episode! Peg, Kelly, and Marcie were all OTR while camping and Al, Bud, and Steve wound up hiding until the end of the episode!


Seriously, I can't do more than offer a pic (attached) until Sunday because I've got to clean and cook tonite, drive to NH for some recreation starting at 05:00 tomorrow, drive back (most likely at 05:00 saturday) to pick up the grandparents, and drive back to NH for some more recreation!

Yikes. Oh, and sometime on sunday i've gotta clean the porn off of a friends family computer so his kids don't see it (gotta love those popups.)


Chip: If you need to escape from the house, come down to Capones in Pembroke. I'm there pretty much every thursday night (heading there right now.)
 

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Can you measure the diameter inside the lip or shoulder. It sure "looks" like a standard diameter C-element, but NOT for an HD-10, but for an HD-18 type lens like what goes on a G70, which is a smaller diameter than an HD-10.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
Can you measure the diameter inside the lip or shoulder. It sure "looks" like a standard diameter C-element, but NOT for an HD-10, but for an HD-18 type lens like what goes on a G70, which is a smaller diameter than an HD-10.
Measured via tape (very rough.. I'm pretty well liqoured up right now :) ) approx 6" dia bolt pattern, 3.75" dia inside lip.
 
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