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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Before everyone gets excited, this is a question, not a statement...

V, Inc. has a new cheap $200 DVD player with DVI output discussed in detail on the >$5K forum here


Initial Reports:

1) It scales DVDs to 540p via the 1080i setting

2) It will upscale DVDs even though it is not HDCP

3) The picture quality beats the Samsung HD1000 for about $1300 less when using the DVI output (analog is crappy).


Could this all mean... if 1:1 mapping works on the Panny with this player, we would have perfect all digital image scaled to the native res of the L300U with no need for HDCP or HTPCs?


Even if we don't get 1:1, it might still be a great alternative to the HTPCs some have been using?


Thoughts, comments (and hopefully actual testing!) would be appreciated...

-Matt
 

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I`m also curious about this..i currently use Panny RP56 progressive via RGB component into 300u...If this dvd player via DVI would give me a noticeable improvement in picture quality, i would rather spend the $200.00 on this dvd player as opposed to spending money on an RGB switch, as i have 3 devices with RGB out.
 

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I have a 300u and have a d1 and DVI cable coming on Tuesday. I bought this with the hope that I can send 1080i to the PJ after hearing some of the reports that it was sending upscaled signals even to non-HDCP DVI. I also was looking at the XP30, but it seems that even 480p (if it does not pass the upscaled signal) over DVI is an improvement over a good progressive component connection, so I figured I'd give this a try. I currently have a JVC sa70bk sending progressive via component to the 300u. I'll report back when I get this, but I don't know how to test for 1-1 mapping. I guess I'll just be looking for if the projector recognizes it at HD 50 or 60.


I don't know why this player would be breaking any rules by sending the upscaled signal over the DVI though, as the real resolution is still 480p, just scaled to 720p or 1080i.


Hopefully I'll have good news to report back.


Darren
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by DAT
I have a 300u and have a d1 and DVI cable coming on Tuesday. I bought this with the hope that I can send 1080i to the PJ after hearing some of the reports that it was sending upscaled signals even to non-HDCP DVI. I also was looking at the XP30, but it seems that even 480p (if it does not pass the upscaled signal) over DVI is an improvement over a good progressive component connection, so I figured I'd give this a try. I currently have a JVC sa70bk sending progressive via component to the 300u. I'll report back when I get this, but I don't know how to test for 1-1 mapping. I guess I'll just be looking for if the projector recognizes it at HD 50 or 60.


I don't know why this player would be breaking any rules by sending the upscaled signal over the DVI though, as the real resolution is still 480p, just scaled to 720p or 1080i.


Hopefully I'll have good news to report back.


Darren
Awesome, I look forward to your posting...


Supposedly the 1080i setting is actually 540p so there is a good chance we'll be using the full panel. However, since this thing seems to be so picky about 1:1 mapping, I'm not positive we'll bypass the internal scalar. Still though, it should be an improvement in PQ regardless...


I'm not exactly sure how you would check for 1:1 mapping without using a computer. Most people just view the MS desktop and if it is in razor sharp focus, you have 1:1. Anyone know how to check for 1:1 mapping using only a DVD player?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mpjohnst
Supposedly the 1080i setting is actually 540p so there is a good chance we'll be using the full panel. However, since this thing seems to be so picky about 1:1 mapping, I'm not positive we'll bypass the internal scalar. Still though, it should be an improvement in PQ regardless...
Thanks for the link to this thread mpjohnst. I will keep an eye on this thread also. Your statement above is very true. I am coming from an RV-80 which is an interlaced player with pretty good video. However, I am using not only the internal scaler but also the deinterlacer in the L300U which royally sucks when it comes to video/animation. According to the people in the other thread the video over DVI is just spectacular (No EE or Chroma bug). So even if we can't get 1:1 mapping I am still very excited. This player will still be *MUCH* better then what I have.
 

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RobLewis made this comment in the another 1:1 pixel mapping on AE300 thread...just a FYI and no reflection on Rob. Just his thoughts...



Thanks for the info Clint.


Actually, the DVI input to the AE300 will not compare to the VGA input. Except for PC desktop, the DVI input is almost useless. Unfortunately, the designers did not feel that DVI was important enough to make the high quality modes (AA) available through DVI.


So, no matter how good the DVD player is, if it goes to this projector via DVI, it will not be as good as an HTPC.


- Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It is kind of a blanket statement and I always find it hard to agree with those because there are always exceptions....


According to what I've read about the L300U with an HTPC, there are several "usable" modes using both VGA and DVI. While none give true 1:1, they are generally agreed to be better than a stand alone DVD player via component. From what I recall, the preferred connection of the two was via DVI so I think that nulls the above statment.


I for one am very excited to see what this player will do, even if we don't get 1:1 mapping. What it will hopefully do for most is give them comparable if not better PQ than an HTPC without the hassle. Now granted, HTPCs add a whole new dimension to what is possible with a PJ, but there are many that are using HTPC only for DVD playback and would prefer not to. My $0.02.

-Matt
 

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mpjohnst,


Unfortunately my DVI cable did not ship until this afternoon so it will arrive on Wednesday. But I will get it up and going and post some results later that night. The player itself is due to arrive tomorrow so I'll play with the component connection and report back, but I'm not expecting much here.


I am itching to try this player with DVI to see how big an improvement it is over my current player after hearing some of the posts. I don't see how this wouldn't be an improvment even if this input is not listed as AA quality.


As far as checking 1:1 mapping, would using the resolution patterns on Sound and Vision disc help? I thought that moire on the circle patterns were caused by scaling, but I'm relatively new and naive here.


Even if it isn't 1:1, what sold me on the player was the lack of EE and and the sharpness of the picture that's being reported. EE on dvd is probably what bothers me the most with the big screen, so anything that might help with this will be great. Also hearing how the D1 favorably compares to HTPC's is encouraging.


Hope to report back soon.


Darren
 

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One thing to keep in mind is that there seems to be a design flaw on the current run of the Bravo's that allow you to get upscaling on DVI without having HDCP. AE300 owners might want to get their hands on one of these in a hurry before this is corrected.


Since uprezzing beyond 480p without HDCP is prohibited, it's a pretty unique opportunity for $200.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by DAT
As far as checking 1:1 mapping, would using the resolution patterns on Sound and Vision disc help? I thought that moire on the circle patterns were caused by scaling, but I'm relatively new and naive here.
I don't think that will work because the S & V disc is probably mastered in 480p. As mentioned above, I don't know exactly how to check for 1:1 mapping via a DVD player, but I would imagine we would need a test pattern created in 540p. Then when it is displayed it should not be doing any visible scaling. Any one that knows how to test for this, please chime in...


Even though you don't have the DVI cable, it might be worth it to check the component inputs, especially with the L300U. If you check the thread in the >5$ forum, one person has gotten 720p and 1080i (really 540p) signals over these inputs. Since the AA modes are only available via component, maybe this is our ticket to 1:1 mapping! Too bad it would be via the inferior outputs :(


I'm eagerly awaiting your results! Thanks for being the guinea pig!

-Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by HTCrazy
One thing to keep in mind is that there seems to be a design flaw on the current run of the Bravo's that allow you to get upscaling on DVI without having HDCP. AE300 owners might want to get their hands on one of these in a hurry before this is corrected.


Since uprezzing beyond 480p without HDCP is prohibited, it's a pretty unique opportunity for $200.
Have you heard anywhere that they are planning to change this? If you look at Jim Noyd's posts in the >$5K forum, they sure seem to think they aren't breaking any rules. And even if they are, they don't seem to have any pressure on them yet from big brother...


Please don't tell on them :D
 

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This is what I don't understand. The dvd is not HD and all the player is doing is scaling the picture. I don't know why this would be against any rule because a projector will do the same thing to match it's panel's resolution. In the end the projected pictures resolution is still only 480p, just scaled up. I think this may be why it is passing the signal, not a design flaw.


Darren
 

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As I've mentioned on another thread I don't quite understand this fascination with getting 1:1 pixel mapping with this player. That only buys you something if the scaler in the player is better than the one in the projector. The magic here is getting an all digital signal and sending 480p to the projector and then letting it upscale to 540p is probably not going to look a lot different than sending 540p. Neither one is true 1:1 for the DVD.


The reason that 1:1 with an HTPC is so sought after is because it does such a good job of scaling and also it can do all the scaling in the digital domain. If you are using RGB to the projector it is still doing an A/D conversion, which won't be needed with this player.


So, I think this statement:


"So, no matter how good the DVD player is, if it goes to this projector via DVI, it will not be as good as an HTPC"


is jumping the gun. I sold my AE300, so I can't test it, but maybe I'll contact BJM and see if he wants to try it out.


--Darin
 

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Ralphdk,


Fedex just tried to deliver the player but I'm at work so I'll have to go pick it up later tonight. My cables (DVI) are arriving tomorrow so tonight I'll just give feedback as to how it compares with my current player JVC sa70bk via component. Not expecting much but the comparison may help some. I'll be looking forward to tomorrow to get DVI. I'm not so concerned with 1:1 mapping but want to see how this improves the picture.


Darren
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by darinp
I sold my AE300, so I can't test it, but maybe I'll contact BJM and see if he wants to try it out.


--Darin
Darin, are you getting one of these players? If so, yes, I'd love to see it on my L300U. I also agree with everything else you wrote. The scaler in the 300 is great. The only advantage here is the lack of a D/A -> A/D conversion. I doubt there'd be much improvement but I'm curious.


Brent
 

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So is the consensus that the Bravo D1 for sure allows you to get upscaling on DVI without having HDCP? Has anyone out there tested all of this on a 300U?
 

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According to the web site and from what I've read in the >5k forum, my impression is that you do need a HDCP compatible DVI port to use this player, and the component outputs are substandard.

Unless I'm wrong thats bad news for the PT300 owners; makes it pretty much useless for you.
 

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Thanks builty. Bad news indeed. Can anyone else agree/disagree with that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you two...


The whole reason for the "buzz" in the >$5K Forum is that this player is not HDCP compliant but still scales to 540p, 720p or 1080i. That is why Alan is able to use it with his Seleco 300+ which is not HCDP. This bodes very well for the L300U which is why is started this thread. Whether we are able to achive 1:1 mapping is another story...


DAT-

I'm eagerly awaiting your test results!
 
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