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Room is 4x8 m, woofers corner loaded, 50/50 music movie which option is best?

  • 1 lilwrecker

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • 2 picowreckers

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • Another option involving a horn setup

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi,

// WARNING ....I'm European so all measures below are in the 'Metric' system:D //

I've been reading for a while on this forum and really like the idea of a tapped horn subwoofer. Finally I have the budget approval of my wife:grin:

I want to (have approval to...) spend about 400 euro on the speaker + cabinet (amp is a separate budget). I know ported subs are about as good but I first of all like the idea and principle of a horn, and secondly I think they fit better with the d'apollito design of my main transmission line speakers (T+A Criterion T160, 4 Ohm 160W). The discussion is thus not if I build a tapped horn but which one:D

Room size is 4x8 meters, I'm sitting in the middle of the room at about 4 meters of the speakers, the speakers are standing in front of the 4 meter wall. I will use it for about 50 percent movie and 50 percent music, but I really like to have decent musical performance...

I don't feel comfortable enough to fold my own horn so I'm really in doubt about 2 potent lilmike designs. I have the budget (and also room) to do either:
1 lilwrecker
2 picowreckers

I have to ship the drivers to europe and pay taxes, so to get them here I pay 230 euro for 2 Alpine SWS 10D2 or 200 euro for 1 Alpine SWS 15D2. About half of that money is cost of shipping and taxes. If anyone knows of good 'European' alternatives which give more performance for the same money let me know!

I have about 200 euro left over for the wood which should be more than enough.

But the questions I need to answer by tomorrow to start ordering my material are:
  • In my room, will I benefit most from 1 lilwrecker or 2 picos? I will have to corner load them due to the layout of my room.
  • I like the finish of MDF better than plywood, is it ok to do the innards in plywood or OSB and the outside in MDF, maybe 22mm instead of 18mm? I can also get High Densitiy Fibreboard which is heavy but very strong, or 28 mm... for the Lilwrecker it could get heavy though, for the pico I'm not worried.
  • This might be a stupid question but I would like to have the opening of the horn on the upside of the cabinet because there is a sofa on the right at 1,5 m of the wall and it would block(?) the sound. I just don't know if it's wise, I haven't seen it but in general it seems logical to me it would have a better spread as my room is full of tables, ... which are max 1 m high so. I'm only worried about stability and the fact nobody did it, so there must be a good reason not to do it... I could add some sand in the base for stability if needed.

thanks!!
 

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Warning, I understand metric but don't tell the NSA

Well, that depends--glad to get that out of the way. Two subs will give smoother response across a larger area so it has that going for it. The Lilwrecker has higher SPL and is tuned to 17Hz while the Pico should be about the same output as a pair but is tuned to 24Hz. The Picos would be great for most music but if you want the depths of movie special effects--they won't do that.

You could always build one Lilwrecker and move it around to get the optimum response from your one seat. Be aware that the Pico extends high enough to not have issues with a traditional 80Hz crossover point but the Lil does. If your mains can go down to 60Hz for the point, not an issue or if you will be using parametric EQ to smooth the response in the 60 to 80Hz band, then you are OK there. Just another point to throw out there because variables make this hobby more entertaining.

So you want to put the mouth of the horn at the top towards the ceiling in your room? Well, the entire box weighs around 90 KG or more so it should be OK. You could put an eyelet or two on the top to strap it to the wall for safety. You could also make a plate that is about a meter wide and have the sub sit in a slot to add stability.

Those horns produce some pressure at the cone end or beginning of the horn. Not a big fan of MDF because of that high pressure at that point. It might work fine but you would be better off asking lilmike for his opion and options for wood.

I'm pondering building a lilmike tapped horn just to hear what they sound like. The picowrecker would be better for my garage music system but the Lilwrecker 17Hz tapped horn seems so... insane it would be fun to blast pipe organs in the garage. I don't think I'd ever convince my wife to let me haul the monster into the living room but it could happen. Denial is a key part of audio so I'm hopeful.

Glad I could waste your time and not answer your question--but at least I understand metric so that has to mean something.

Good luck! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
PS just to be sure i'm doing it right...I downloaded hornresp and read the tutorials on it. I imported the txt file on the lilwrecker page, and put in the parameters of an alternative sub (I found some Sundown SA 15) which I got from this site:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=44

It seems like it is performing quite well?? or am I missing something?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for your reply, at least good to hear I'm not the only one with the dilemma. If the pico's weigh 90kg they should indeed be stable. Will check with lilmike on the wood, I guess I will need to add more bracing. Problem about 'moving the sub' is that it's soo big, I only have 2 spots which are possible, and they are both in the corners of the shortest wall.

Problem with the 17Hz thing is I didn't hear ever a 17 or 24 Hz sub so it's almost impossible to know if it's worth it or not...asking for a test of a commercial sub going down to 17Hz is also difficult as there are not many. I was for a moment thinking of building 2 lilwreckers but I think I might get a free divorce if I do so...

Have been reading hundreds of sites on 'infrasonic' sound etc. but no clear answer to date:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
PS my personal preference is towards the pico's for the ease of use and integration (it's 'light' to move and easier to get everywhere a good response) only 'driver wise' I don't have too many options in europe :confused:
 

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How to explain the difference,

For theater use with special effects, explosions etc--the party happens at 15 to 30Hz. For music, generally speaking the low notes go down to 27.5 Hz such as a grand piano. The lowest and loudest frequency I've ever played with was 11 Hz at 136dB in a car--very bizarre feeling from all that pressure. Some people want their frequency response to go down to the single digits for movie special effects like the "Irene Scene" from the movie Blackhawk Down with rotor blades spinning at 8Hz.

For any form of guidance I look at THX and IMAX standards for bass response in movies--partially because of indecision and the other being they would know better than me. THX lists 20Hz with a -6dB down point and 115dB peaks at your listening position. Basically, if you can get 109dB at 20Hz in your seat, you are good. IMAX lists 20Hz as -3dB or tighter than THX with 118dB peaks or 115dB at 20Hz.

My present sub measures out to around 18Hz in room response, I really like the extra oomph down low. Physics being what it is, I don't have the SPL to approach THX standards but having the frequency response already there is a nice bonus.

My wife is pretty cool but a Lilwrecker or two in the living room is a no go. My garage system is all DIY and quite large, the hobby part of it all. My subs in the garage are dual 15" ported boxes and tuned to 24Hz but could use some extra SPL. Although the Lilwrecker would be a great project, it would not exactly mesh well and can't be crossed over at 80Hz or higher. The Picowrecker would be the obvious choice but I, like you...figure if you are going to build something so complex--why not go for the big gun first. Are you the type that would think "Yes! This picowrecker is amazing--wonder what the Lilwrecker would sound like?"

The Lilwrecker is large, complex and has a ton of pieces to it. Might not be a great first horn build and it is something I ponder. The Pico would work better in my garage, the tuning would work with my mains on the high end and the existing sub tuning on the low end--and be much easier to build without screwing things up.

Just to throw a bigger mess into this--go with option C. The guy that built a single fold tapped horn that is 8 feet (around 2.54 meters) It goes down into the teens, very easy to build for a first time build and you can lay it down on the floor. :cool:
 
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