[billeickmann]

Hi all. I'm thinking of adding a sub to my seven speaker system. I have a new Yamaha Z11 which will support right and left subs, in a large room with a tall ceiling. The proposed budget is $1000 to $1200 with an absolute limit of $1500. I have Def Tech PB 2000 mains, a CLR 2000 center, and older JBL rears and Bose surronds. Is it worth adding a sub since I already have 15" 300 watt subs in the Def Tech mains? If I do add, should it be one or two? I am currently running the Def Tech mains as large and all others as small. I listen to about 80% movies and 20% music and am really hooked on quality sound.

 

[jaeelarr]

There are several advantages to having a stand-alone sub.


With that being said, do you feel you are not getting enough boom from the built in subs on your Def Tech's?

 

[dookie1]

as has been said repeatedly, the DT 'subs' are better thought of as powered woofers. they absolutely cannot come close to the performance of a dedicated external sub.


there are many internet-direct subs that fit your budget and needs. a pair will go a long way towards eliminating 'perfect' placement issues, but a single well-placed and eq-ed sub can do very well too.


imho, the new epik empire is well worth a look.

 

[billeickmann]

I'm not sure. I have never had a sub. I have read a lot here about the advantages of a separate sub. Not too many places anymore that you can go to and listen to the "good stuff".

 

[rnatalli]

I can't think of a case where it's better not to have a stand-alone sub. I would look at SVS, HSU, Epik, and eD.

 

[natemu06]

Check out the DTS-10 kit. I'm sure it will absolutely blow you away and should come in right below 1500 bucks. For reference they are using these in IMAX theaters which seat hundreds of people....lets say I doubt you'll be disappointed. Horn subs are rather large though if you have any WAF

 

[Bone215]

none is not an option

one is good

two is better


In my opinion and in my experience, the single biggest improvement in my listening pleasure has been the addition of a good subwoofer.

 

[rick240]

You have a big room, music is a significant component of your listening, and sound quality is important.


Most even bass response in your room will come from two subs.


Best sound quality for two subs in your (stretched to $1500) budget is two Rythmik F12.


If your receiver lets you choose different crossovers for the front/centre/rears then call them all small crossing at 60/80/100.

 

[below90hz]

Bill, my first question would be "Do you have the LFE out from your AVR connected to the LFE inputs on your BP2000s?" If not, I'd suggest doing so and then listening to a bass-heavy scene in digital surround sound with and without the LFE plugged in. You may find a significant difference in how low your PB2000s go and how loud the bass gets.


My next question is "do you know how loud the bass from your PB2000s get?" For example does it shake the walls and and seating when listening to movies and/or music? If you've already got room-shaking bass, you may not need more subs. Also if you could get your hands on an SPL meter and measure in-room levels at listening position when playing bass notes, you might find you're already hitting very high SPLs. On the other hand, if you're only doing 100 decibels or so, you could stand to add some boom to your room.

Another thing to consider is your Def Techs have side-firing subs. It may be difficult to integrate other external subs with those, although the Epik Empire might fit right in since it has side firing drivers as well.


Just some food for thought.

 

[Lhasa-lover]



Quote:
Originally Posted by below90hz /forum/post/18123389


...Another thing to consider is your Def Techs have side-firing subs. It may be difficult to integrate other external subs with those, although the Epik Empire might fit right in since it has side firing drivers as well.


Just some food for thought.

Not a consideration if he sets his mains to small, which is what he should do if he gets two seperate subs.

 

[below90hz]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover /forum/post/18123841


Not a consideration if he sets his mains to small, which is what he should do if he gets two seperate subs.

I guess I was thinking from my perspective, there's no way I'm gonna let two 15" subs and two 300w amps that have been calibrated by the manufacturer to integrate with the mid/high's just sit there unused. But if the OP is ok with that, then I'd say the subs others have recommended will work, also dual eD A5-350s would bring the house down.


-Ethan

 

[Lhasa-lover]



Quote:
Originally Posted by below90hz /forum/post/18123908


I guess I was thinking from my perspective, there's no way I'm gonna let two 15" subs and two 300w amps that have been calibrated by the manufacturer to integrate with the mid/high's just sit there unused. But if the OP is ok with that, then I'd say the subs others have recommended will work, also dual eD A5-350s would bring the house down.


-Ethan

His two 15" "powered woofers" would still work as well as his 300w amps that power them. They just wouldn't be used to drive sound below the crossover range he sets for his mains. Of course there would be no harm in trying, but two seperate subs as well as the powered woofers in his mains would most likely be VERY boomy and muddy. In most all cases the mains should be set to small with an appropriate crossover, such as 80Hz or perhaps 60Hz and then place the stand alone subs in the best postion to reproduce low material. It's a common misconception that towers as mains are wasted unless set as large. I've had an opportunity to listen to several systems that had powered mains as well as dedicated subs (one in an old system of mine) and in every case the bass was horrible. Setting the mains to small solved the problem and the bass generated by the subs was able to dig much deeper with much more authority than those in the powered towers. IMO

 

[below90hz]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover /forum/post/18123946


His two 15" "powered woofers" would still work as well as his 300w amps that power them. They just wouldn't be used to drive sound below the crossover range he sets for his mains.

Yes that's my point, if they aren't producing the lower frequencies they'd be just sitting there not doing what they were designed to do. Those babies are rated to go down to 15hz btw.

Quote:
It's a common misconception that towers as mains are wasted unless set as large.

I didn't say the towers were wasted, I said the sub and amps in them would be. Which, considering what Def Tech BP2000's cost and what the subs can do, that would be a consideration from my perspective.

 

[Lhasa-lover]



Quote:
Originally Posted by below90hz /forum/post/18124084


Yes that's my point, if they aren't producing the lower frequencies they'd be just sitting there not doing what they were designed to do. Those babies are rated to go down to 15hz btw.




I didn't say the towers were wasted, I said the sub and amps in them would be. Which, considering what Def Tech BP2000's cost and what the subs can do, that would be a consideration from my perspective.

I don't want to endlessly debate this, but they weren't meant to deliver the kind of bass that two Rythmik F12's could, for example or even a single Fathom F113. Running the mains as small, with the addition of two subs would, in most all cases, would be a large improvement.

 

[below90hz]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover /forum/post/18124227


I don't want to endlessly debate this, but they weren't meant to deliver the kind of bass that two Rythmik F12's could, for example or even a single Fathom F113.

Hey don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from and I think we're probably even on the same page. Cuz normally I would agree that adding a sub would make such a great improvement that setting mains to "small" wouldn't matter too much. But I've heard what a pair of AR-1's with a 15" woofer and 300w amp in them sound like. And if the Def Tech's can perform around the same, then it is entirely possible the OP wouldn't even need to add external subs if they're wired correctly. But if he needs or wants to add, then from my own personal experience with speakers of that caliber I think the side-firing subs in the mains shouldn't be counted out too quickly.


btw, if you've actually got a chance to hear Rythmiks or an F113, color me jealous!