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Discussion Starter #1
Im quite happy with my SVS PB2000 for movies althout a second wouldnt hurt i also listen to a lot of music.

Im quite happy with the TOtem rainmakers resolution , details , imaging etc...and music sound fantastic. Would love however to add extra flavour to bass to get a fuller sound !

So im thinking REl or SVS SB 2000 or above series. Leaning toward SVS since i allready have PB 2000 and maybe i can combo SB+PB for movies too.

Not sure however if it would ruin or not the sound overall to mix up PB and SB togheter. Or perhaps just go with a REl for music and turn on and off the subs depending on the content with the avr remote (a/b options for sub is available)

I see a beautiful deal on an older SB12 for like 500 CDn looks good at this price !
 

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Im quite happy with my SVS PB2000 for movies althout a second wouldnt hurt i also listen to a lot of music.

Im quite happy with the TOtem rainmakers resolution , details , imaging etc...and music sound fantastic. Would love however to add extra flavour to bass to get a fuller sound !

So im thinking REl or SVS SB 2000 or above series. Leaning toward SVS since i allready have PB 2000 and maybe i can combo SB+PB for movies too.

Not sure however if it would ruin or not the sound overall to mix up PB and SB togheter. Or perhaps just go with a REl for music and turn on and off the subs depending on the content with the avr remote (a/b options for sub is available)

I see a beautiful deal on an older SB12 for like 500 CDn looks good at this price !
If you get a REL, say a T or S series, you could just connect the high level input and leave out the LFE. Leave the LFE to your SVS if you're satisfied with that already. The high level connection will make your Totems sound fuller. Tuned and calibrated correctly, the REL and your Totems will blend in like one set of speakers while leaving your SVS to HT LFE duties.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
yea exactly what i was planing to do ,just didnt detail it in the og post.

Mix and matching should be fine if I dont share the LFE to both subs basicelly i think

And to me a speaker should play all the required bass for music , not a fan of using any subs for music actually but it would be the best i could do if i dont plan to get a floorstander or something like a bookshelf that play outstanding bass (like the buchard s300)
 

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yea exactly what i was planing to do ,just didnt detail it in the og post.

Mix and matching should be fine if I dont share the LFE to both subs basicelly i think

And to me a speaker should play all the required bass for music , not a fan of using any subs for music actually but it would be the best i could do if i dont plan to get a floorstander or something like a bookshelf that play outstanding bass (like the buchard s300)
Speakers crossed to a pair of properly placed subs offers much better sound quality than a pair of speaker without subs. So it depends on what your goals are. If high fidelity is the goal, you should cross to subs. Eq on the subs and eq below Schroeder on the speakers is also all but required for high fidelity. Once you achieve this, you will never again be satisfied with the low fidelity reproduction of two speakers without subs.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Speakers crossed to a pair of properly placed subs offers much better sound quality than a pair of speaker without subs. So it depends on what your goals are. If high fidelity is the goal, you should cross to subs. Eq on the subs and eq below Schroeder on the speakers is also all but required for high fidelity. Once you achieve this, you will never again be satisfied with the low fidelity reproduction of two speakers without subs.
yea for speaker who lack bass , but for speakers who have a complete sound and play low enough why would it be needed to put a crossover and transfer to bass.
I prefer that all sound come from the speakers , without any syncronisation required. The fewer combination the better the sound to me. Lots of audiophile dont like subs too.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The notion that Sealed is better for music and Ported is better for Theater is quite silly.

A well designed subwoofer will excel with any content you throw it.

Choose subwoofer orientation (Sealed/Ported) based on your room and external requirements.
I did own a few sealed musical subs and other ported ones, and to me all the sealed sounded significantly better in music.
Obvioulsy there are exception like in everything but in general its not so silly i find.
 

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Q

yea for speaker who lack bass , but for speakers who have a complete sound and play low enough why would it be needed to put a crossover and transfer to bass.
I prefer that all sound come from the speakers , without any syncronisation required. The fewer combination the better the sound to me. Lots of audiophile dont like subs too.
Audiophiles often believe a lot of things that have zero basis in reality...
 

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Audiophiles often believe a lot of things that have zero basis in reality...
Heresy.
I'll have you know the combination of:
https://www.thecableco.com/cables/power-cables/professional-series-helix-power-cord.html (3m)
+
http://www.highfidelitycables.com/speaker-cables/orchestral-double-helix-signature/ (2x3m)
+
https://us.creative.com/p/speakers/creative-pebble

got me the EXACT equivalent of this:
https://uncrate.com/wilson-audio-wamm-master-chronosonic-speaker/


If that's not saving money, I don't know what is.
 

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Oh you're funny.


Not sure you are being sarcastic or serious, but here if you want to make a claim like that, you best bring the data to prove it. Photos of the Wilson speakers in your room and the REW waterfall plots to show room response. Same for the pebbles.
 

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Oh you're funny.


Not sure you are being sarcastic or serious, but here if you want to make a claim like that, you best bring the data to prove it. Photos of the Wilson speakers in your room and the REW waterfall plots to show room response. Same for the pebbles.
He's being a smart A$$. On a serious note, I would love to see measurements of both the Wil$on's and the pebbles. LMAO literally.
 
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yea for speaker who lack bass , but for speakers who have a complete sound and play low enough why would it be needed to put a crossover and transfer to bass.
I prefer that all sound come from the speakers , without any syncronisation required. The fewer combination the better the sound to me. Lots of audiophile dont like subs too.
No, crossing to subs provides better sound quality no matter how low speakers attempt to play. My towers are flat to 25 Hz and I would never settle for the lower sound quality of not using subs.

Also, I wouldn't base any decision on what "lots of audiophiles" do....a lot of audiophiles do a lot of really silly things that either don't improve sound quality at all, or actually reduces sound quality, such as not using subs and eq.

High fidelity = good speakers cross to good quality well placed subs coupled with room eq for both speakers and subs and enough clean power to drive them. Without any of those ingredients, sound quality will be substantially suboptimal. And isn't that one of the main goals of this hobby, to achieve optimal sound quality?

Edit: realized I didn't provide a good technical reason as to why this is so. The best speakers made will have a terrible in room frequency response below about 500 Hz because the room dominates response below this level. The result will be huge peaks and dips in frequency response which means some frequencies will play much louder than they should, and some will play much quieter. In other words, low fidelity, failure to provide accurate playback. Low frequency drivers need to be placed in the room where they will provide the best frequency response for optimal sound quality. This is not where the speakers are located, which is why two speakers in a room will not provide high fidelity, accurate playback. Well placed, high quality subs are needed for this. Eq is needed on the speakers below Schroeder frequency i.e. the frequency below which the room controls frequency response regardless of which speakers are used. Eq is also needed on subs to provide a high fidelity, accurate +/- 1-2 dB response. Subwoofers will also play with lower distortion and hence better accuracy and fidelity than speakers. All of this results in drastically higher sound quality. Once you experience this, you will never be satisfied with the comparatively low fidelity of two speakers without subs.

People are happy with TV speakers until they hear a good sound bar. People are happy with good sound bars until they hear a good pair of real bookshelf or tower speakers with a center channel. And people are happy with a pair of speakers until they hear a pair of speakers paired with good subs.
 

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I did own a few sealed musical subs and other ported ones, and to me all the sealed sounded significantly better in music.
Obvioulsy there are exception like in everything but in general its not so silly i find.
This is a common misconception, and of course what we hear isn't only the result of the sound that reaches our ears, but also is affected by many other factors, such as our long held beliefs and bias that are shaped by all the advertising and audiophile tomfoolery about sealed subs being tight, fast, accurate, crisp etc and ported subs being slow, boomy, sloppy, muddy, flabby etc etc.

All else being equal i.e. two similar quality ported and sealed subs.....discerning which is sealed and which is ported in a level matched blind test would result in random guesses as to which is which. Its been done before.

Having said that, if you truly believe sealed subs sound better, they absolutely will sound better, simply because our bias unavoidably plays into what we perceive, and not just the actual and factual sound that enters our ears. However, we must realize that due to this bias, the sealed sub will sound better even if someone tricks you and tells you they switched the wires to a ported sub even if they don't make the switch. You will percieve lower sound quality whether the actual change is made or not.

It is for this reason that, once I narrowed my speaker choices down to a small handful of worthy candidates, I made my final selection based on aesthetics. I know that having a speaker that looks good will truly improve the perceived sound quality vs the same exact identical speaker that look ugly to me.

I distinctly remember one of the big get togethers that took place with AVS forum members in which participants were to listen to a large selection of some of the best subs on the market..sealed, ported, horns....the majority of results were no better than random guesses as to which sub was which, and the most devout sealed sub fanatic selected what he absolutely knew beyond any shadow of a doubt which sub was his preferred sealed alignment. Unfortunately for his preconceived bias, it turned out to be the 18" ported 33mm Xmax JTR Captivator 2400.
 

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Oh you're funny.


Not sure you are being sarcastic or serious, but here if you want to make a claim like that, you best bring the data to prove it. Photos of the Wilson speakers in your room and the REW waterfall plots to show room response. Same for the pebbles.
Come on, of course I was joking!
....or was I?
 

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yea for speaker who lack bass , but for speakers who have a complete sound and play low enough why would it be needed to put a crossover and transfer to bass.
I prefer that all sound come from the speakers , without any syncronisation required. The fewer combination the better the sound to me. Lots of audiophile dont like subs too.

Lots of people do it wrong...........pretty much no speakers play down to 20hz...yeah I know, look at my avatar for the reply.....



Go stand next to a tuba and tell me a tiny 6.5 inch speaker will do that ......I can feel a tuba in my bones....a 6.5 inch woofer, not soo much.


I have 15 inch mains and they still greatly benefit from a sub......when the cone is bouncing at 60hz it a muddies upper range until it hands off to the mid range....but soo much in audio is personal preference....if you like no sub, use no sub, but scientifically it is not producing better audio and much is missing.


Oh and the drum solo........good luck with the bass drum ever feeling like it does live with tiny drivers, when the drummer is going in my room it feels like a real drum set in the room and thumps the chest.......how can anyone claim to be reproducing music faithfully when soo much of the tactile is missing.


You can claim you are reproducing what you like, but you can`t claim its fully reproducing all the reproducible sounds.......


Have you ever stood next to a grand piano when some one is playing their heart out......it vibrates in to the bones with all manner of joyous resonances and tones and vibrations with all the notes combining and reflecting making sounds that no small low excursion speaker can ever reproduce with tactility of a large driver.
 

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Im quite happy with my SVS PB2000 for movies althout a second wouldnt hurt i also listen to a lot of music.

Im quite happy with the TOtem rainmakers resolution , details , imaging etc...and music sound fantastic. Would love however to add extra flavour to bass to get a fuller sound !

So im thinking REl or SVS SB 2000 or above series. Leaning toward SVS since i allready have PB 2000 and maybe i can combo SB+PB for movies too.

Not sure however if it would ruin or not the sound overall to mix up PB and SB togheter. Or perhaps just go with a REl for music and turn on and off the subs depending on the content with the avr remote (a/b options for sub is available)

I see a beautiful deal on an older SB12 for like 500 CDn looks good at this price !
You would be better served getting two identical subs and using both of the subs for music and movies. Two subs will smooth the frequency response. Where one sub results in a null, the other sub will fill in that null and the result will be fewer and less impactful nulls. Also, with both subs playing, each sub can be turned down 3 to 6 dB, which lowers distortion and increases system headroom. The only potential downside to using two subs is that it takes some time and effort to integrate them. f one is too disinterested to make the effort, then two subs can potentially be worse than one sub, (due to destructive interference between them.) If you're not willing to m ake the effort, then one sub would be your best option. Ported vs. sealed is a theoretical discussion and has virtually no practical application in real life, (assuming the ported sub is well designed and has good transient response.)

Two sealed subs will be a significant improvement over 1 sealed sub. This is because sealed subs can work efficiently with "room gain" to enhance lower frequencies, and the more sealed subs, the better.

Two ported subs will enhance low frequencies because they offer more output down to their "port tune." Therefore ported subs should be selected based on the lowest frequency required. In general, the lower the frequency extension, the more expensive the subs. (This last statement is generally true for both sealed and ported subs.)

Bottom line, whether you get ported or sealed, get two identical subs and use them for both music and movies.

Edit: I totally agree with Bear on this one... Towers with subs are virtually always better than towers alone.

Craig
 

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Of course! And if you step up to the Pebble Plus with it's 8 watt subwoofer, you can SURPASS those Wilson's!!!




:D:D:D


Craig
 
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