[centauratlas2]

Well, I went out and got two Replays to replace my almost 4 year old 3080. I was really enthused. This is what happened, and a few questions at the end to see if anyone has tried this in order to get them to work.


I got a 5060 and a 5516. We have an in-house network (Cat6 cable) connected via an Asante 8 port 10/100/1000 switch which is connected to our broadband connection via a 4 port 10/100 router which is connected to the Comcast provide/maintained Cisco UBR905 device.


When the 5060 and 5516 were connected directly to the UBR905 they worked with a static IP. Plugged into the router, they worked with DHCP assigning an IP or a static IP in the 192.168.xxx.xxx range.


However, when they are connected through the 10/100/1000 switch they did not work - they couldn't connect to the net, couldn't get an IP address via DHCP and wouldn't work with a static IP.


There are 6 other machines of various types on the network all connected through the 10/100/1000 switch, some connecting at gigabit speeds, some connecting at 100-T speeds (e.g. some large volume web-servers, mail server,name servers and the like). There is also a little sub-network allowing connections via wireless also plugged into the 10/100/1000 switch, but I unplugged that during the test. I spent about 2 hours on the phone with ReplayTV, first with a nice lady and second with a tech guy (nice also) who called me back a few hours after I spoke with the first lady. We unplugged everything, reset etc although plugging several portables never required tha to get DHCP addresses in the past. None of it worked when they were connected via the 10/100/1000 switch.


Given that the other machines were working (running a variety of different OS's on different hardware) the conclusion that I reached was that the ReplayTVs are having some problems the switches since the computers here, plus various portables that people have plugged in over the past 2 years, have worked with these swtiches.


They looked really great and I have loved my 3080 for just a few months shy of 4 years, but want the broadband connectivity and in-home sharing. Since they couldn't get them working, I decided to return them and I got my RMA number.


After I got my RMA number though, I had another idea and thought I would run it by people here.


What I was considering was getting two cheap (e.g around $50) 10/100 routers and plugging them in right in front of each unit so that it would be:

-- -- -- -- --


Instead of:

-- -- -- --


Since the Replays were working when they were directly connected to the internet router, but not through the two switches I was wondering if this might work. I'd prefer NOT to have to do this, but it might be worth it to have them working (yes, I want this to work!!!).


So my questions:

1. Has anyone used any of the ReplayTVs with 10/100/1000 switches successfully?

2. Has anyone tried using a cheap intermediate router in the fashion described above?

3. After writing the above, I also tried connecting them through a 2-year old 10/100 switch and they didn't work with it either. This is kind of leading me to believe that perhaps they don't like being connected via a 10/100 switch unless I had two bad switches (or one bad 10/100 switch and a problem with the ReplayTVs on a 10/100/1000 switch) which seems unlikely since the other machines work quite well with them.


Thanks!

 

[sfhub]

Is there any chance the particular wall outlet and the associated cat6

wiring to the switch could be at fault. Some people have reported Replay's

behaving flaky with long ethernet cables, but worked when replaced with

shorter cables.


Personally I think if you try enough combinations in a systemtic way, you'll

eventually get a setup that will work and is reasonably acceptable.


Start with your known working config and start replacing components one

by one until you figure out specifically which one is the culprit. You might

have already done that, but your description wasn't specific enough and

you might have been changing multiple factors between testing (like

changing the wiring and switch, rather than changing the switch, testing,

then changing the wiring, and testing)


If you feel the 10/100/1000 switch is the problem then you might want

to stick a 10/100 switch in between rather than using a router (or if

you are using the router, make sure you aren't using the WAN port,

only LAN ports). Also when you put the switch in between, make sure

one and only one port

is uplink/MDIX.


Use 'ping' as a test of whether the units are responding rather than

Net Connect. Other things might be going wrong with Net Connect.

While debugging configure the units for static IP instead of DHCP.

You may later find DHCP is more reliable for streaming and other

stuff, but for pinging, static IP is more consistent and easier to test.

 

[centauratlas2]

Quote:

Originally posted by sfhub Is there any chance the particular wall outlet and the associated cat6 wiring to the switch could be at fault.

Thanks for the reply!


There is a chance, but I did carry two computers down there - 1 100-T and 1 gigabit - and both worked with it.


One thing that you did mention that it could be, is the length of the ethernet cable. I have 9 drops in the house, and they are all in the walls. They run up the wall, into the attic and then back down into the wall. I am not sure of the longest length, but to go from the wall to the switch to the router has to go up to the attic, down to the switch, back out the switch, up and then back down into the room where the router is. The *shortest* distance that is, guessing, is 60-70 feet (4 up and downs at about 10 feet each, distance in the attic of the 1st run, 5 feet; second run, 15 feet; from the 2nd wall to the router 10 feet). That isn't near the spec for ethernet on Cat6, but I guess I could try moving the switch in by the router with a 3 foot cable to test. Then if it is the length of the wiring I'd at least know what the problem is.


Some of the other things I tried:

1. I tried the ReplayTV at 3 of the ethernet ports, one right on the wall next to the switch, one at the longest distance and a middle length.


2. I attempted to ping it (the 5060 was the most tested) with it plugged in various places, with combinations of both static IPs. DHCP never worked while connected to either switch.


3. I configured it with a static IP while it was plugged into the router and then moved it to 3 different outlets that were connected to the router via the switch. The three all had computers plugged in. I removed the computers, tried it. Nothing. Restarted the switch and router. Nothing. Tried it with different cables. Nothing. During the tests with the static IP (I actually tried 2 different ones for completeness), I had continuous pings running from two different machines. The only odd things I noticed was that perhaps 1 in about 500 of the pings would be echo'd.


4. I tried four different cables between the ReplayTV and the wall. I even tried a cross-over just in case.


5. You might have missed it in the first message, but I did try plugging it in to an older 10/100 switch without success. I only tried the 5060 in there since by then I was getting tired.


6. I didn't mention it the first time, but there was a connection light on on the ReplayTV, both the 5060 and 5516 when they were connected.


7. When I switched to the switch I did change two things by necessity - the wiring and the switch. I suppose I could try moving the switch in by the router, but it would still mean adding both a switch and one more cable.

 

[sfhub]

Quote:

Originally posted by centauratlas2 1)When the 5060 and 5516 were connected directly to the UBR905 they worked with a static IP. 2) Plugged into the router, they worked with DHCP assigning an IP or a static IP in the 192.168.xxx.xxx range. 3) However, when they are connected through the 10/100/1000 switch they did not work - they couldn't connect to the net, couldn't get an IP address via DHCP and wouldn't work with a static IP.

Between 2 & 3 above there could have been lots of changes. I'm suggesting

it is easier to debug making small changes and testing after each.


Some things that might help. Switches maintain MAC->IP tables internally

so sometimes switching between different ports may seemingly not work

but in reality would work once the MAC->IP table entry expired or was

overridden. If you want to be sure, power cycle the switch between

configuration changes. It'll timeout by itself, but this is quicker and more

definite to reset the switch.


Replay has schizo behavior. The underlying OS will always get IP address

during boot time via DHCP regardless of how you have it configured. After

boot is finished and Replay App loads up, it will switch to using static IP,

but the underlying OS will still DHCP renew when the lease is up. Sometimes

this behavior may lead you to the wrong conclusions of something working

or not. It is easy to get mixed up and ping the wrong address if you have

Replay configured for static, but you see in your router that Replay has

reserved a DHCP served IP address.


Replay's sometime behave differently if static IP is configured and no DHCP

server is available vs static IP with DHCP server available.


I've done a lot of debugging with Replay networking and seriously you

want to keep everything very simple and only change one parameter

at a time. Due to the convoluted nature it is so easy to come to the

wrong conclusions if too many parameters are modified simultaneously.


Start with Replay connected to the Router. The known working scenario.

Reboot replay and power cycle the relevant switches between each step.


Next disconnect the CAT6 wiring that is run to the asante and connect

it to the port on the router Replay was connected to.


Next bring Replay to the jack on the other end of CAT6 wiring and try

connecting and seeing if it works.


If that works, try inserting your old 10/100 switch in between Replay

and the router.


If that works, try disconnecting the CAT6 wire from your router and

connecting to Asante.


If everything has worked up to this point, this should work too, as

Replay has no idea it is connected to Asante.

 

[cama21]

I have know some switches (by design or configuration) to filter non-TCP/IP traffic. Do the replays require anything that the Gbit switch isn't passing?


Secondly, If the Replays work connected to the router directly. and the router has at least three LAN ports, why not just connect the following directly to the router LAN ports.

1) Replay #1

2) Replay #2

3) Your Gbit switch which in turn will feed the rest of your network.


The replay's can't communiate at Gbit speeds anyway, so why waste high speed ports on your more expensive switch.

 

[sfhub]

Replay only uses TCP/IP services.


I don't think the Asante is a layer3 switch.


To me connecting to the router seems reasonable. I'm guessing it is a

matter or principle or inconvenience in wiring that is preventing this option

from being the first choice.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Buy.com has the Gigafast EZ500-S 5-PORT 10/100 Mini Switch for $35 - $20 rebate [Exp 9/30] - $10 rebate [Exp 9/30] = $5 with free shipping. Both forms appear to require the original UPC, so send a copy for the $10 rebate.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...737&dcaid=1688

 

[jesup]

Replay uses uPnP broadcasts, though - could the switch be blocking broadcasts?

 

[BaysideBas]

Quote:

Originally posted by GadgetGuy Buy.com has the Gigafast EZ500-S 5-PORT 10/100 Mini Switch for $35 - $20 rebate [Exp 9/30] - $10 rebate [Exp 9/30] = $5 with free shipping. Both forms appear to require the original UPC, so send a copy for the $10 rebate. http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...737&dcaid=1688

Actually, they pay YOU $0.01 to take the unit off their hands. $29.99, free shipping, -$20 Gigafast rebate, -$10 Buy.com rebate.

 

[MasterShake]

Quote:

Originally posted by BaysideBas Actually, they pay YOU $0.01 to take the unit off their hands. $29.99, free shipping, -$20 Gigafast rebate, -$10 Buy.com rebate.

you forgot +$0.37 to mail in the rebate form. Still, $0.36 for a switch is not bad.


Seriously (for centauratlas2) ...


That comment about 1 in 500 pings succeeding sounds rather suspicious. I can't tell from your posts: have you tried connecting a Replay to a switch using a single known good patch cable? Theoretically the -- connection already works properly. Though as I think about that ... You said -- works with static IP; what about -- -- ? Maybe the switch and router aren't playing nice?

Unfortunately a packet sniffer would probably be quite useful to you (is there an easy way to overload the MAC table in a switch, so it will drop back to hub behavior?). Did you look at the arp tables on any of the pc's while you were testing? If they can 'hear' the replays there should be an entry with the replay's MAC and IP addresses.

Just as a data point, my setup looks like this (all CAT5):

-- -- -- --

The replay is currently set to a static IP, though it also works fine with DHCP (RFC 1918 in both cases).


edit: What's the model # on the Asante?

 

[centauratlas2]

Quote:

Originally posted by sfhub I'm guessing it is a matter or principle or inconvenience in wiring that is preventing this option from being the first choice.

100% correct. The router is about 50 feet from the central drop point of all of drops in the house. And technically it shouldn't matter.


Here is what finally happened. I tried all different combinations of things and nothing worked. I couldn't get it to work from that port (it was the longest, probably 30-40 feet more than the 2nd longest). So I returned them.


However on Monday (9/29/2003) I went out and thought I would give it another try with a different 5516. I was doing fine with my 3080, but have been looking forward to the 5516.


It arrived. I plugged it in and it works perfectly now. Just for the record, this is what I am using it with:

1. an Asante 10/100/1000 switch. A GX5, 8 10/100/1000 ports.

2. a cable length of probably 150-160 feet from the switch to the 5516.

3. a cable length of about 50 feet from the switch to the router.

4. A Cisco UBR 905 cable modem/router (required for some static IPs).

5. an Asante FriendlyNet switch (10/100).

6. I also tested it with an older 100 only switch I have and it worked too (I thought it was the least I could do).

7. Various other computers on the network (2 PowerMac G4s, a PM 8600, PM 6100, PM 7100, iMac) - those in the office area. ;-)


So, I think it may have been something with the unit and the long cable length. That is about all I can figure. I can do a 10000 ping test with 0% loss now.


I am quite happy with it (although it took a lot of work!). Compared to my old 3080, it is great. None of the stuttering I'd see with watching/recording simultaneously on the 3080.


Next up is a second unit (probably a 5532 once they are shipping). It will be at one of the other drop points so I am confident it will work nicely.


In short, I think it must have just been the unit since nothing else has changed except that a few weeks had passed.


Thanks for all the notes again, I tried them all!

 

[centauratlas2]

I just wanted to post one more update. So far (4 days) it is working 100%. I am loving the difference between the 3080 and the 5xxx series. It is well worth the upgrade cost, now I am just waiting for the 5532 for my second unit.


Again, thanks to everyone who tried to help, it took a while, but was worth it.