Just wondering if anybody figures this shootout could happen any time soon. Epson, Mits and Panny 1080p lcd vs Pearl and RS1/HD1 would be interesting. I guess most of the fighting will be amongst the lcd projectors, but it would be neat to square them all off regardless to know just how different they are from one another.
1080 Shootout? Epson, Panasonic and Mitsubishi 1080p lcd vs Pearl and JVC RS1/HD1?
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excellent proposal!
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I think this is what many people are interested in.
Surely the budget solution (3LCD) is tempting and the JVC solution is tempting due to it's high quality profile but the end of the day the differences might be smaller than expected.
I saw the HC5000 in direct comparison with the VW50 and the differences are so small and the advantages so minor that everyone can do his personal decision without having the fear to do a really wrong decision.
The end of the day the decision is very subjective and that's o.k.
excellent proposal!
I think this is what many people are interested in.
Surely the budget solution (3LCD) is tempting and the JVC solution is tempting due to it's high quality profile but the end of the day the differences might be smaller than expected.
I saw the HC5000 in direct comparison with the VW50 and the differences are so small and the advantages so minor that everyone can do his personal decision without having the fear to do a really wrong decision.
The end of the day the decision is very subjective and that's o.k.
Yeah, I would love to see the differences between these projectors. I like my TX200 but I would be really interested in a projector with blacker blacks and much higher contrast. I wonder how much better the Mitsubishi is compared to my TX200, and how much better the JVC is than both of those. Is it a noticeable difference? A shootout would be helpful for this.
Still hoping a shootout like this will happen. I say there should be two sub-shootouts within an overall shootout. Compare all the 1080p lcd's. Compare the JVC and Pearl. Then compare the best of the 1080p lcd's with the two LCOS.
I am curious to see just how the 1080p lcd projectors compare to one another. I hope Cine4home does a shootout of this kind
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I am curious to see just how the 1080p lcd projectors compare to one another. I hope Cine4home does a shootout of this kind
Be great to see them all go head to head !
Add the new Benq w9000 DLP as well as its priced like the Pearl and Mits.
I've compared the Pearl and the Mits with the same material on the same screen,
and the Mits IMO topped the Pearl in many ways:
+Better optics, its sharp edge to edge, big difference
+Better Scaler / Deinterlacer big difference here with 1080i, 720P
+Quieter its silent
+More inputs that work at 1080P, including VGA for the 360 HD DVD
+Easier to mount, smaller lighter with more vertical shift
Where the Pearl comes out on top is:
+Black level, big difference here
+Dynamic Iris is much faster to react
The Mits sounds and looks like a clear winner in so many cases but the black level is so much better in the Pearl, at least on the High Power screen, that its not an easy choice.
I wanted to like the Pearl, so I even tried a 2nd one, hoping the softness issues would improve, but it was still too soft after seeing the Mits, and being used to a DLP pixel perfect display the last few years.
Anyhow in the end, I decided to give the JVC a look.
If it turns out too loud or lacking sharpness due to convergence I think DLP is the answer. The manual warning about image retention on the JVC DILA panels is also a concern.
Add the new Benq w9000 DLP as well as its priced like the Pearl and Mits.
I've compared the Pearl and the Mits with the same material on the same screen,
and the Mits IMO topped the Pearl in many ways:
+Better optics, its sharp edge to edge, big difference
+Better Scaler / Deinterlacer big difference here with 1080i, 720P
+Quieter its silent
+More inputs that work at 1080P, including VGA for the 360 HD DVD
+Easier to mount, smaller lighter with more vertical shift
Where the Pearl comes out on top is:
+Black level, big difference here
+Dynamic Iris is much faster to react
The Mits sounds and looks like a clear winner in so many cases but the black level is so much better in the Pearl, at least on the High Power screen, that its not an easy choice.
I wanted to like the Pearl, so I even tried a 2nd one, hoping the softness issues would improve, but it was still too soft after seeing the Mits, and being used to a DLP pixel perfect display the last few years.
Anyhow in the end, I decided to give the JVC a look.
If it turns out too loud or lacking sharpness due to convergence I think DLP is the answer. The manual warning about image retention on the JVC DILA panels is also a concern.
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Evan from Projector Central who has given many LCD's good reviews tells me that the JVC RS1 has a clear advantage over any 1080P LCD and is worth the extra money. I wanted to have his opinion because I knew that he was familiar with most of the LCD projectors. That pretty much made my decision easy.
You have to watch those subjective comments, based on reports the JVC RS1 does indeed have a clear advantage over LCD projectors for black level and contrast, but thats just one factor in finding the right projector.
I also consider:
-Fan noise, no matter how good the image is I just dont want a louder projector
after hearing the silence of the Mits, and near silence of the Pearl
-Lens quality, do the corners look softer compared to the center
-Video Processor, how does 1080i from HDTV look
-Inputs, does the unit offer 1080P over VGA, does it have enough HDMI inputs, etc
-Ease of installation for your setup, throw ratio, can you shelf mount without flipping it upside down
-Menu options to calibrate color, overscan, etc
-Out of the box greyscale quality
-Image retention problems
-Will the panel degrade over time
-Warranty Service Support History
-Cost
The JVC has concerns or at least differences in some of those areas that may make another projector a better choice , depending on your needs.
The Sharp 20000 is another good example , it puts out an image that is 2nd to none that I have seen, has a decent processor and great input options, perfect pixel sharpness edge to edge... but its too LOUD for our setup.
You have to watch those subjective comments, based on reports the JVC RS1 does indeed have a clear advantage over LCD projectors for black level and contrast, but thats just one factor in finding the right projector.
I also consider:
-Fan noise, no matter how good the image is I just dont want a louder projector
after hearing the silence of the Mits, and near silence of the Pearl
-Lens quality, do the corners look softer compared to the center
-Video Processor, how does 1080i from HDTV look
-Inputs, does the unit offer 1080P over VGA, does it have enough HDMI inputs, etc
-Ease of installation for your setup, throw ratio, can you shelf mount without flipping it upside down
-Menu options to calibrate color, overscan, etc
-Out of the box greyscale quality
-Image retention problems
-Will the panel degrade over time
-Warranty Service Support History
-Cost
The JVC has concerns or at least differences in some of those areas that may make another projector a better choice , depending on your needs.
The Sharp 20000 is another good example , it puts out an image that is 2nd to none that I have seen, has a decent processor and great input options, perfect pixel sharpness edge to edge... but its too LOUD for our setup.
Makes sense. Although the Pearl has its unique character (lighter corners in blank or dark scenes and slightly softer look) .. it should still have better black level and contrast and faster iris than the 1080p lcd's. The mitsubishi is definitely one of, if not the sharpest non-dlp 1080p projectors and the JVC will likely have by far the best black level and highest contrast, all without DI. A shootout would get to the finer details and peculiarities of each peice and show just how much each projector differs from one another.
Evan Powell's review usually is dead on. The shoot out among all 1080p LCDs had been done on PC. I think Mits comes out a winner (with Pana's inconsistent sharpness bothering me).
The only question really is Mits vs JVC. But that is NOT a fair comparison. JVC is two and half times the price of Mits. It boils down to whether that extra black level is worth the big difference in price.
Evan Powell's review usually is dead on. The shoot out among all 1080p LCDs had been done on PC. I think Mits comes out a winner (with Pana's inconsistent sharpness bothering me).
The only question really is Mits vs JVC. But that is NOT a fair comparison. JVC is two and half times the price of Mits. It boils down to whether that extra black level is worth the big difference in price.
DI would be a minor factor in contributing to PQ. Good constrast is primarily determined by ansi contrast anyway, while DI makes the specs look good on paper. With the DI off you won't see whole a lot difference in PQ only not so dark blacks. But black level is not a strong suit of this Mits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit07 /forum/post/0
What concerns me is that the PC review never mentions the Mitsu dynamic iris issues that are discussed in detail by many other reviews. What do you make of that?![]()
DI would be a minor factor in contributing to PQ. Good constrast is primarily determined by ansi contrast anyway, while DI makes the specs look good on paper. With the DI off you won't see whole a lot difference in PQ only not so dark blacks. But black level is not a strong suit of this Mits.
I'll try and expand on your key points, again just the impression I was left with based on the units I had in my setup, YMMV:
+Mits Better optics, its sharp edge to edge, big difference
Both Pearls I tried, suffered from blurring as you moved away from the center. I tested using a 1080p still frame signal. In the corners the blur or CA was much more noticable than on the Mits. The Mits had little if any, once I found the optimal horizontal shift position, it seemed sharp edge to edge.
+Mits Better Scaler / Deinterlacer big difference here with 1080i, 720P
This is something I never thought much about till I seen the Mits and the difference it can make. The Mits uses a new Silicon Optix HQV scaler/deinterlacer. I think you'd have to spend $2K-3K to get a stand alone processor like is built in the Mits. Menus on my ExpressVu (Dish) HD PVR looked sharp, crisp, 1080i HDTV football, Letterman, etc, the same, when I set the PVR to either 1080i or 720p. VGA out on the 360 looked sharper than Ive ever seen it, at 720p or 1080p. The Pearl on the other hand made those sources look soft, even blurry in comparison.
Now the Pearl is NOT a blurry projector, dont get me wrong, just in comparison to what I seen with the Mits. The Pearl looks similar to going to a movie theater, where I always seem to find the images on the soft side, some like that look.
Where the Pearl comes out on top is:
+Black level, big difference here
This here is the Pearl's Ace and why so many are very happy to own it.
The Mits was very weak in my setup with regard to black level. With the Mits if you put up a image where there is black in one area and light in much of the another, the iris opens and the black area looked 'screen white'. I could clearly see the screen and the border etc, it just lost the immersion experience. I think its because the Mits is brighter and its black level with the iris opened is much higher than the Pearl, so your entire room lights up, reflects and what should be black becomes screen white.
Now I'm using a high power screen , and the room has white ceilings both of those were working against the Mits, but in that room my old DLP has decent blacks and so did the Pearl.
+Dynamic Iris is much faster to react on Pearl
I never noticed the pearls iris, getting smaller for dark scenes to make them blacker and opening for bright scenes. I noticed every change on the Mits where it seems to take a second to react, it closes/opens slower. But this did not really concern me, the iris changes dont happen that often. It was the almost white blacks at times that i could not adjust to.
There may be optimal settings I missed on either projector, but I'm just trying to offer my unbiased view based on my observations. If one is planning to watch mostly DVD movies, those tend to often have many darks scenes and I think many might be happier with the Pearl, as sharpness is not much of a factor with DVD as they are low resolution to begin with. HD looks OK on the Pearl too, its just a softer more film like look, that didn't appeal to me being used to a crisper DLP image.
If your looking for a general purpose projector to play PS3 or 360 games on, to watch HD Sports, or use a PC with, and movies are not as important then the Mits will amaze you if you get one with decent convergence. The Mits I had looked sharper than even a Sharp 20000 DLP with bright 1080p still images, and I dont know how thats possible as the Sharp being DLP is pixel perfect.
Hope that helps, but be sure to compare or demo whatever you buy first, and draw your on conclusions, sorry I didn't take any images to post to compare
![]()
I'll try and expand on your key points, again just the impression I was left with based on the units I had in my setup, YMMV:
+Mits Better optics, its sharp edge to edge, big difference
Both Pearls I tried, suffered from blurring as you moved away from the center. I tested using a 1080p still frame signal. In the corners the blur or CA was much more noticable than on the Mits. The Mits had little if any, once I found the optimal horizontal shift position, it seemed sharp edge to edge.
+Mits Better Scaler / Deinterlacer big difference here with 1080i, 720P
This is something I never thought much about till I seen the Mits and the difference it can make. The Mits uses a new Silicon Optix HQV scaler/deinterlacer. I think you'd have to spend $2K-3K to get a stand alone processor like is built in the Mits. Menus on my ExpressVu (Dish) HD PVR looked sharp, crisp, 1080i HDTV football, Letterman, etc, the same, when I set the PVR to either 1080i or 720p. VGA out on the 360 looked sharper than Ive ever seen it, at 720p or 1080p. The Pearl on the other hand made those sources look soft, even blurry in comparison.
Now the Pearl is NOT a blurry projector, dont get me wrong, just in comparison to what I seen with the Mits. The Pearl looks similar to going to a movie theater, where I always seem to find the images on the soft side, some like that look.
Where the Pearl comes out on top is:
+Black level, big difference here
This here is the Pearl's Ace and why so many are very happy to own it.
The Mits was very weak in my setup with regard to black level. With the Mits if you put up a image where there is black in one area and light in much of the another, the iris opens and the black area looked 'screen white'. I could clearly see the screen and the border etc, it just lost the immersion experience. I think its because the Mits is brighter and its black level with the iris opened is much higher than the Pearl, so your entire room lights up, reflects and what should be black becomes screen white.
Now I'm using a high power screen , and the room has white ceilings both of those were working against the Mits, but in that room my old DLP has decent blacks and so did the Pearl.
+Dynamic Iris is much faster to react on Pearl
I never noticed the pearls iris, getting smaller for dark scenes to make them blacker and opening for bright scenes. I noticed every change on the Mits where it seems to take a second to react, it closes/opens slower. But this did not really concern me, the iris changes dont happen that often. It was the almost white blacks at times that i could not adjust to.
There may be optimal settings I missed on either projector, but I'm just trying to offer my unbiased view based on my observations. If one is planning to watch mostly DVD movies, those tend to often have many darks scenes and I think many might be happier with the Pearl, as sharpness is not much of a factor with DVD as they are low resolution to begin with. HD looks OK on the Pearl too, its just a softer more film like look, that didn't appeal to me being used to a crisper DLP image.
If your looking for a general purpose projector to play PS3 or 360 games on, to watch HD Sports, or use a PC with, and movies are not as important then the Mits will amaze you if you get one with decent convergence. The Mits I had looked sharper than even a Sharp 20000 DLP with bright 1080p still images, and I dont know how thats possible as the Sharp being DLP is pixel perfect.
Hope that helps, but be sure to compare or demo whatever you buy first, and draw your on conclusions, sorry I didn't take any images to post to compare
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5,672 Posts
Absolute nonsense! Have you even seen a DI pj like the Pearl?
Absolute nonsense! Have you even seen a DI pj like the Pearl?
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13,997 Posts
Ummm, you are kidding right? If you asked Joe Kane and Evan about a projector and one of them said it was excellent and the other said it was garbage, then who would you believe? Replace Joe with Greg Rogers (whose reviews are considered the best and most complete) and who would you believe? I think most here would run away from a pj if Darin and Bob Sorel said a pj was crap even if Evan said it was the greatest pj ever. Evan did say the Canon was the best pj he had ever seen and that had more to do with brightness than picture quality.
Ummm, you are kidding right? If you asked Joe Kane and Evan about a projector and one of them said it was excellent and the other said it was garbage, then who would you believe? Replace Joe with Greg Rogers (whose reviews are considered the best and most complete) and who would you believe? I think most here would run away from a pj if Darin and Bob Sorel said a pj was crap even if Evan said it was the greatest pj ever. Evan did say the Canon was the best pj he had ever seen and that had more to do with brightness than picture quality.
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